OS going a little too far?  
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All Forums >> Glow Engines, Gas Engines, Fuel & Mfg Support Forums >> Glow Engines >> OS going a little too far?
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OS going a little too far? - 1/15/2002 10:47:56 AM   
Planeboy P51


 

Posts: 72
Joined: 1/12/2002
From: Upland, CA
Status: offline 		Is it just me or has OS gone a little overboard with this whole EFI technology thing? Now, I can understand the 1.40 and 1.60 cuz they're larger engines and are designed for competition pilots. But the 91 FS? What is it listed for? It's at least 500 bucks. Now, I'll bet they're looking to compete with the YS 91 with this motor but for what? Sportsman pattern? Whatever. But I can tell you that my YS 91 puts out more power, probably has similar transition, and it actually costs more than 200 dollars less. Feel free to flame me you OS fans I just wanna know your opinions

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Maybe you should ask Futaba? - 1/15/2002 3:34:51 PM   
ShempHoward


 

Posts: 1147
Joined: 12/4/2001
From: San Francisco, CA, USA
Status: offline 		The EFI control units are made by Futaba which owns OS so perhaps your question would be better addessed to Futaba? I either case I think OS is just trying offer modelers new technologies that appear to work well enough. Nothing in their ads said it was better than the YS 91 and they do not pretend to think that. It might be the wave of the future in RC engines just as it is now in many cars and some bikes as well. BTW - OS has a new larger Surpass 4 stroke single that we should be seeing quite soon. The rumor is that it might be competition for the YS 140L.

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OS - 1/15/2002 3:55:59 PM   
Hobbsy



Posts: 10563
Joined: 12/2/2001
From: Colonial Beach, VA, USA
Status: offline 		I agree with Shemp, that OS is just offering us more choices and as he stated fuel injection may be the way of the future. It does not effect me personally as I don't own any OS's or YS's but it is interesting to watch it unfold. If fuel injection makes glow engines as tractable as todays auto engines, then it is a very good thing.

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OS going a little too far? - 1/15/2002 9:57:29 PM   
djlyon



Posts: 1915
Joined: 12/10/2001
From: Castaic, CA, USA
Status: online 		They are just getting ready for emmision control requirements on model airplane engines . Probably coming to California this summer.

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OS going a little too far? - 1/16/2002 12:56:32 AM   
ShempHoward


 

Posts: 1147
Joined: 12/4/2001
From: San Francisco, CA, USA
Status: offline 		I remember seeing something somewhere about a move by the EPA to start some type of exhaust emissions program on weedeaters, lawn mowers, chainsaws and models aircraft engines. Lets hope this plan never gets off the ground or else we're all in a world of hurt - big time. I think the OS/Futaba EFI thingy is just supposed to meter the fuel more effectively for smoother transitioning. I don't think its sophisticated enough to effect emissions. What types of emission controls can you have on a 2 stroke glow or gasoline engine? Were'nt most of the 2 stroke bikes eliminated from this country long ago because there was no effective method of controlling the exhaust gas emissions? Now 4 strokes might be another story. Can you forsee a catalytic converter on a 4 stroke? The added weight might be enormous by our standards.

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OS/FUTABA EFI - 1/16/2002 3:48:23 PM   
CAPtain232



Posts: 2467
Joined: 12/15/2001
From: Waynetown, IN, USA
Status: offline 		I think this whole EFI thing is good, but I DO NOT think it is worth the money they are trying to get out of it. The addition of EFI more than doubled the cost of the engine. I can see possibly adding $75 to a $300 engine, but the mark-up they have now is rediculous. It is a little plastic, an LCD, and a small chip which added up probably only costs $15. The engineering is what you are paying for, but this is old technology.

EFI adds reliabilty, but there are people out there that can run these engine and nearly never have a deadstick. Is the extra weight worth EFI cause you sure don't get a power increase. OS was even dumb enough to tell you that.


Jeff

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OS going a little too far? - 1/16/2002 5:31:24 PM   
Elwood



Posts: 1512
Joined: 12/11/2001
From: Wayne, NJ,
Status: offline 		OS was not reinventing the wheel, but I can see how expensive it was to engineer. I think the cost will go down over the next few years as they get more money out of their investment.

If you want to see real power gains from this, I think you are looking at some kind of a direct injection system. Now that would be expensive!

The real application may be for people who are not too handy with carb settings. At the current prices for this system, it may help to learn!

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O.S. EFI - 1/16/2002 5:50:30 PM   
Ed Smith


 

Posts: 2820
Joined: 12/29/2001
From: Brantford, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Jeff wrote

"Is the extra weight worth EFI cause you sure don't get a power increase. OS was even dumb enough to tell you that"

Did you mean honest enough?

Ed S.

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OS going a little too far? - 1/16/2002 8:57:00 PM   
TopShelf



Posts: 648
Joined: 12/6/2001
From: West Linn, OR, USA
Status: offline 		Isn't the idea of EFI to give one maximum performance through out the entire flight envelope? Don't we all "back Off" on ground RPM so that we don't overlean in the air? So, it seems to me that the EFI gets us more performance out of the engine though, as has been stated, the maximum output of the engine is not increased.

Kent

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OS going a little too far? - 1/17/2002 12:22:22 PM   
Planeboy P51


 

Posts: 72
Joined: 1/12/2002
From: Upland, CA
Status: offline 		Well I'm 14 and don't own any O.S. engines. I think that the EFI technology should stick to the competition engines while they cost like 300 more than the regular motor. O.S. obviously ain't going to make money on a 91 four-stroke FI motor. Especially when it's a couple hundred more than the YS motors and I don't think the difference in performance can really be seen in the smaller motors. Yeah it probably does cost like 15 bucks for the chip and everything but that's business.:

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OS going a little too far? - 1/17/2002 8:47:13 PM   
Volfy



Posts: 3227
Joined: 1/4/2002
From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Between being the only one having EFI and the standard practice of skimming the creme off the top immediately following a novel new product introduction, I'd say OS is pricing them exactly right. At first, only top competitors plus RCer who enjoy (and willing to pay premium for) the latest bleeding edge technology will buy these jewels. Rest assured there're plenty of them folks. Then, contingent upon other engine makers jumping on the bandwagon, the supply side will widen and prices will drop steadily as the sales volume increases.

It is no different than any other high-tech devices. Remember how much the first DVD players sold for? Or for that matter the first CD players? Look at how much they cost now.

It has been quite a while now that the state of technology has been conducive to EFI RC engine development: experience with full-scale EFI engines, much improved battery tech, powerful and abundant microcontrollers, SMT, etc. Frankly, I was wondering why no one was taking the initiative.

I think the only RCers who might find EFI objectionable are the engine gurus who have mastered the black art of RC engine tuning. Yes, I too know how to fiddle with airbleed carbs and twin needles, but why should I fave to? Rites of passage? I think not. I do think EFI will revolutionalize the RC engine industry the same way ARFs have done to the kit makers. The diehards will keep the carburetor from disappearing completely, but those who either don't know how or don't care to tweak needles will be glad to pay a little more for EFI.

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OS going a little too far? - 1/18/2002 5:41:55 PM   
doug l


 

Posts: 23
Joined: 12/6/2001
From: caledonia ont canada
Status: offline 		just think..if all engines have EFI these sites will be empty...no more clowens burning up engines.. $15 dollars to make chip and EFI system.???? i will buy all you can make for $100.00. or are you just bad at math also???? emission controls...no 2 stroke burning oil will meet any standards..so if EPA goes after us..we are done. electric power any-one??????? LOL


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OS going a little too far? - 1/18/2002 11:37:27 PM   
Volfy



Posts: 3227
Joined: 1/4/2002
From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by doug l
just think..if all engines have EFI these
sites will be empty...no more clowens burning up engines..
$15 dollars to make chip and EFI system.????
i will buy all you can make for $100.00.
or are you just bad at math also????
emission controls...no 2 stroke burning oil will meet any standards..so if EPA
goes after us..we are done.
electric power any-one??????? LOL [/QUOTE]

Actually, the most expensive parts in the OS EFI system are probably the miniature sensors that had to be manufactured for the application. The electronic components are VERY cheap. Flip through a Digikey catalog to get a sense of what they cost for small quantities. For larger order, figuring on pennies per piece. I don't think $15 is too far off once the economies of scale get going.

EFI makes these forums empty?? Uh... last time I checked, the ARF/ARC forum post count outnumber the Kit-builder 5 to 1.

As for 2-cycle meeting emmission standards, several manufacturers met the deadline recently for CARB Tier 2 for small portable engines (weedwackers, etc.) with 2-cycle designs. Ryobi and a few others had hoped for a 4cycle oligopoly in Calif, but failed.

With technology, if there is a will, there is a way.

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OS going a little too far? - 1/19/2002 8:34:47 AM   
Diablo-RCU


 

Posts: 3208
Joined: 12/19/2001
From: Hammond, IN, USA
Status: offline 		Well I sure have no reason to spend $800 on ANY glow engine. For that type of money you can get some awfully nice large gas engines (even twins) with pumper carbs that work just great. EFI on glow engines is an answer to a question that no one asked. The OS 91 EFI will probably wind up in the same bin as the OS 1.20 supercharged motor - technical marvel and a commercial flop because they can't compete with the well-evolved YS motors for competition aerobatics.

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       Post #: 14