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RE: [b]"TAURUS OWNERS ONLY"[/b] - 3/4/2006 7:04 PM   
T-one



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Status: offline 		Taurus hasn't brought them back. The engine in question was one of our test engines.
With the range of power output of the TS 52, 3.2cu.in engine, we will more than likely discontinue the 2.4, 2.6 and the 3.7 after the stock of these engines are depleted.
One thing is that we will continue to service these engines.So customers that do have them should not be concerned.
We do have a few TS 62's 3.7c.i. in stock if anyone needs one.

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RE: [b]"TAURUS OWNERS ONLY"[/b] - 3/5/2006 2:14 AM   
Bush Pilot


 

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Status: offline 		I'm using Carbon fiber Bolly's on these two engines. The thin blades seem to let them rev up more than the others I've tried. I'm sold on the Taurus engines and the Bolly carbon fiber props, they are a good combination. I've tried several different brands of wood props and just don't get the performance from them. Tomorrow the new Great Planes Cap goes for it's maden flight with perfect weather, solid blue skies light winds if at all, and 60-70 degree temp. It doesn't get any better than this Bill.
When I get my Laser built I will be using a 3W70 on it like I did on the ARF the kit will replace. I'm going to invest in another Bolly for it. It was impressive with a Menz 24X10 wood but should be so much better with a Bolly. Later, Rusty

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RE: [b]"TAURUS OWNERS ONLY"[/b] - 3/10/2006 4:22 AM   
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Status: offline 		Hello everyone, this is my first post. I'm a new member of the "brotherhood". I received my TS52 last week. It's going in a Wildhare 28% Extra Special. Ditto all of the comments everyone has made regarding Taurus engines and Bill O. Nothing but class. The engine looks great! To someone who has never had anything bigger than a .60 glow that is one honk'in big engine

This is my first foray into gas and giant scale so I'm excited to say the least.

Has anyone put a canister muffler on this engine and if so with what result? I held off getting the stock muffler for now because the plane is ready-made for a canister and I thought I would research that possibility before buying a muffler. Is it worth the extra expense and trouble? I've read that the pitts-style Bill provides is very good.

I've enjoyed keeping up with this thread and it's the main reason I chose Taurus. I'll report back after I have run the engine and started building the plane.

Dave S.

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RE: [b]"TAURUS OWNERS ONLY"[/b] - 3/10/2006 10:45 AM   
Don M.



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quote:

ORIGINAL: SquiresD



I held off getting the stock muffler for now because the plane is ready-made for a canister and I thought I would research that possibility before buying a muffler. Is it worth the extra expense and trouble? I've read that the pitts-style Bill provides is very good.



Dave S.


They don't come WITH the muffler anymore ?


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RE: [b]"TAURUS OWNERS ONLY"[/b] - 3/10/2006 3:41 PM   
Bob Laine



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Status: offline 		Last I heard, Taurus engines came with the Pitts wrap around muffler, and the engine mount. If they are no longer included in the price............,that will have to be considered when you make your choice. The quality of the Taurus 3.2 is without question. But, if the engine no longer comes with muffler and engine mount included then, that will put Taurus squarely in the middle with all other manufacturer, because Cost, and value for your dollar plays a large part when considering which engine to purchase.

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RE: [b]"TAURUS OWNERS ONLY"[/b] - 3/10/2006 4:55 PM   
Texan



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Status: offline 		Bob,

I agree with your comments. If the price remains the same and they eliminate the inclusion of muffler and mount, then they will be in the middle of the "high-end" pack. I purchased my TS42 late last year (included muffler & mount) and got the impression TAURUS would drop inclusion of mufflers in the 2006 pricing. I don't know if they have officially changed their pricing policy. TAURUS engine prices were very competitive when including muffler and mount.

TAURUS holds (held?) a very good market position, specifically higher-end value.


TX

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RE: [b]"TAURUS OWNERS ONLY"[/b] - 3/10/2006 6:05 PM   
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Status: offline 		Mine came with the mount included. I specifically asked Bill not to include the stock muffler because I wanted to explore the canister option. I don't know if he still offers a "bundled" price for engine and muffler.

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RE: [b]"TAURUS OWNERS ONLY"[/b] - 3/10/2006 6:09 PM   
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Status: offline 		My buddy Calibasss Just order his and received it a couple weeks ago. The Engine does still come with the engine mount but the Muffler I believe was $69.00 extra for the Pitts Wrap around.

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RE: [b]"TAURUS OWNERS ONLY"[/b] - 3/10/2006 10:23 PM   
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Status: offline 		Well the news is good on the new Cap 232 with the TS 42 on it. I had the feeling it was going to be a good combination and it is. One new bit of info on the plane concerns it finished weight. The batteries in my scale needed to be replaced and after doing so the actual weight came in at 14 pounds even. The plane got it's maiden flight last Sunday, and it was fun from the time it got airborne till I decided it was time to land (one long flight, there was only about 3 onces of fuel left in the 20 once tank) After getting it trimmed out I did the usual basic aerobatics and stalls, then lined up for the first vertical pull and that is when I got the one thing I was hoping for, UNLIMITED VERTICAL. On the second flight our resident DA 50 owner came out and asked how it was going from takeoff to vertical. I was only to happy to show him so I landed, taxied back to the end of the runway, poured the coals to it, left the ground in about 50 feet and as soon as the tail would clear the ground I pulled it to vertical and let it eat, when it was starting to blend in with the high altitude haze, hit full right aileron and completed three rolls just to prove it was not out of steam yet then pulled the throttle and spun back down to a reasonable altitude and landed. He walked off with out saying a word. I caught up with him in the pits and asked him the question. His answer was he was very impressed by it. As for me, well, I'm extremely happy doesn't even get close. This is a keeper, the Great Planes 27% Cap flies great (better than either of the two Midwest Cap 232's I've owned) and the Taurus 2.6 is all it needs for power.

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RE: [b]"TAURUS OWNERS ONLY"[/b] - 3/10/2006 10:45 PM   
Bob Laine



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Status: offline 		Bush Pilot: Welcome to the "Brotherhood." No accolade you use to describe the Taurus engine, comes as a surprise to anyone that has owned and operated the Taurus line of engines. They are just simply without "PEER". I very glad that you've had the experience with you Cap that you have. Nothing like the 1st flight on a new airplane and it preforms beyond your expectations.

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RE: [b]"TAURUS OWNERS ONLY"[/b] - 3/11/2006 6:30 AM   
T-one



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Status: offline 		Hi guys just getting back on here from getting our backlog caught up.
Noticed there is some question. about price change. Yes there was 12/15/05.
Due to increases we have recieved from some of our suppliers,carbs for one and a few others. It was necessary. But lets first consider what you get with a Taurus for your buck.
1) precision cnc machined crankcase, not cast.
2) precision bearings (2) not one
3)high temperature front seal.
4) radial mount IS INCLUDED standoffs for others are an option
5) throttle linkage and installed none on other engines.
6) full auto C/H ignition (made in the U.S.of A)
The price was $629.00 with all the above and a pitts muffler.
The current price is $600.00 Pitts style muffler is an option at $79.00
Plus a three year warranty
We have no clue as to the rumor that the mount is not included.IT IS
Now one of the popular 50cc engines list at $595.00 plus the muffler @69.00
and you have to add standoffs(option $$$???) sub total is $664.00 plus standoffs.
So where is the non-competative price????

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RE: [b]"TAURUS OWNERS ONLY"[/b] - 3/11/2006 7:32 AM   
Antique



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Status: offline 		Here ya go, compete this...
Zenoah G62 lite, with precision machined cast crankcase...4 lbs and a few oz...
Precision bearings, 2..
High temp front bearing seal..
Radial mount, with ignition INSIDE, made in Williams, AZ USA, with the same syncro spark electronic control as used by C&H..l
Lifetime guarantee on the ignition AND mount, crash damage included...
Throttle linkage not needed, the carb is rotated and throttle connects directly to carb shaft...
The price IS and WAS $525, buy your own muffler...
I will match accolades (and price) any day of the week....
Have a nice day ....

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RE: [b]"TAURUS OWNERS ONLY"[/b] - 3/12/2006 5:13 AM   
T-one



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Status: offline 		Ralph, And to think I just complimented you on another thread.( a very weak moment on my part)
You forgot a couple things.
Cast crankcase vs machined from billet aluminum.
Cast cases are in lots of thousands that are produced for the G-62 are only a few dollars each if that.
Manufacturing costs offshore, labor for instance pennies compared to dollars here.
Yup you're right everthing you say is true absolutely true. No argument.
And thank you for the nice day. we are still on a small backlog of engines only because for some reason modelers like the Taurus. Oh well
Now that I've given you the alloted 5 minutes this month. You may go back to whatever you where doing and remind yourself how great you are.

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RE: [b]"TAURUS OWNERS ONLY"[/b] - 3/12/2006 5:57 AM   
Antique



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Status: offline 		Thanks you....Line 2, precision machined cast crankcase...NO ONE uses a case, billet or not, without "precision machining"..But it sounds good So does precision bearings..All bearings are....Cost of labor determines how good a case is ? I think not...
I never said a Taurus was not a great engine..It is...So are all the other 3.2 Sachs chainsaw based engines...The things you say about your engines can be said of all the others, with a few exceptions...
In a few years we will all be looking at "precision machined" engines from China, it's already starting....Except they will be making the whole engine, not just buying cranks and cylinder assemblies from chainsaws and using C&H ignitions....Tomyrc has an electronic controlled ignition for $40 USD...



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RE: [b]"TAURUS OWNERS ONLY"[/b] - 3/12/2006 3:03 PM   
Antique



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Status: offline 		Good point, I was staying away from this thread...Since this is a public forum and there was a statemant about non competitive price, I thought a comparison was in order..Will stay away from now on.... and lurk in my small black corner

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RE: [b]"TAURUS OWNERS ONLY"[/b] - 3/12/2006 3:38 PM   
Bob Laine



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Status: offline 		Ralph........I enjoy your input about your Zenoah engines, and it's comparison between it and other Sacks based engines. I own and fly both Zenoah, (G62) and and Taurus (3,2). I"m satisfied with both of them equally. However, when I need an engine In the 50cc (3.2) size, my all time favorite remains the Taurus 3.2. Since that's the only size Taurus engine I've ever owned, I can't comment on the other size Taurus engines. At one time I was "HOT" for a Taurus 107, but I had to fulfill that need with another brand. As far as the Zenoah G62, when I need a little more boost for an overweight plane in the 50cc size, It just don't get any better than the Zenoah G62 with it larger bore. Since I'm the one that started this thread, I think I have aright to say, all comments are welcome. Just because the heading on the thread reads "Taurus owners only," That doesn't mean that comparisons with other engines are not welcomed. I have no doubt that the Taurus line of engine will speak for themselves, and stand up to any kind of scrutiny thrown at it, and the the Zenoah name, Speaks for itself. Most Taurus, owners own gas engines from several different manufacturers.
Besides........I enjoy seeing two old knowledgeable "Fart's, getting it on.

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RE: [b]"TAURUS OWNERS ONLY"[/b] - 3/12/2006 4:00 PM   
Don M.



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bob Laine

Ralph........I enjoy your input about your Zenoah engines, and it's comparison between it and other Sacks based engines. I own and fly both Zenoah, (G62) and and Taurus (3,2). I"m satisfied with both of them equally. However, when I need an engine In the 50cc (3.2) size, my all time favorite remains the Taurus 3.2. Since that's the only size Taurus engine I've ever owned, I can't comment on the other size Taurus engines. At one time I was "HOT" for a Taurus 107, but I had to fulfill that need with another brand. As far as the Zenoah G62, when I need a little more boost for an overweight plane in the 50cc size, It just don't get any better than the Zenoah G62 with it larger bore. Since I'm the one that started this thread, I think I have aright to say, all comments are welcome. Just because the heading on the thread reads "Taurus owners only," That doesn't mean that comparisons with other engines are not welcomed. I have no doubt that the Taurus line of engine will speak for themselves, and stand up to any kind of scrutiny thrown at it, and the the Zenoah name, Speaks for itself. Most Taurus, owners own gas engines from several different manufacturers.
Besides........I enjoy seeing two old knowledgeable "Fart's, getting it on.


Then you had better remove the"only" from the title.


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RE: [b]"TAURUS OWNERS ONLY"[/b] - 3/12/2006 5:22 PM   
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Status: offline 		My comment regarding TAURUS engine's market position was based on the competitive value they represented when including the cost of a muffler. As T-ONE mentioned, the old price including muffler was $629 now the same package costs $679... a $50.00 price increase or approx 8%. Meanwhile, the other manufacturer is selling in the $680 range for their package (muffler & stand-offs).

My point, TAURUS was selling at an 8% discount ($50) relative to their competitor. Now, there is virtually no pricing difference between the two. Therefore, in my opinion, TAURUS no longer holds the higher-end value position they once possessed.

Don't take this the wrong way, I am very happy with my TAURUS. I'm just a little disappointed with the price increase. I believe most of us here like to get the best value. The old pricing made it easier to justify our purchasing decision in that regard.


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RE: [b]"TAURUS OWNERS ONLY"[/b] - 3/12/2006 6:11 PM   
T-one



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Status: offline 		Considering the fact Taurus had no increases for quite some time it actually was over due. There has to be a point when increased supplier cost,labor cost and material cost must be figuired into the selling price and still try to be competative.
We feel we have done that.
If it comes down to price only, then buy what ever fits the budget.
In the meantime Taurus will continue to produce what we consider a quality product. Keeping our U.S. employees working.
We do appreciate constructive advise. And if anyone has any ideas of how we can reduce our costs, don't keep it a secret.
We thank all of the Taurus engnine owners for their support.
We will not get into a price war with domestic or offshore engine manufacturers nor will we compromise quality and performance.
This is not to be construed to be a reply to any individual, only an attempt to explain.
One other fact is to compare apples to apples, example, one bearing or two bearings.

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RE: [b]"TAURUS OWNERS ONLY"[/b] - 3/12/2006 6:36 PM   
Bob Laine



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Status: offline 		Why? I own a Taurus engine (Two of them) but I also own 15 other Gas engins from different Mfg's. Do you own a Taurus engine, and is that the only engine you've ever owned?

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RE: [b]"TAURUS OWNERS ONLY"[/b] - 3/12/2006 6:38 PM   
Texan



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ORIGINAL: T-one

And if anyone has any ideas of how we can reduce our costs, don't keep it a secret.



Bill,

I am a business process improvement consultant by trade and would like to help. However, my clients usually pay for the service.

TX


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RE: [b]"TAURUS OWNERS ONLY"[/b] - 3/12/2006 7:01 PM   
Bob Laine



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Status: offline 		I would like to make one thing very clear. I still maintain that nothing runs as good, or is as reliable as the Taurus engine, in the 50cc size. I don't care if it cost the same, or even 10% more. In my opinion, the Taurus 3.2, is a better engine than any other in it's class. I personally want the best engine period. For me............nothing runs as good, or preforms as well as a Taurus. You simply can't compare one engine to another simply because it sells for the the same, (or near) the price. I have a Brison 3.2, An DA 50cc, an MVVS 45cc, an MVVS 58cc, Zenoah G62. The Taurus is smoother than any of the other engines I own, and in my opinion, is a better engine. I don't care the parts come from, It works. What matters is how are the part assembled. An engine with three bearings on the crank, is smoother than any engine with only two.

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RE: [b]"TAURUS OWNERS ONLY"[/b] - 3/12/2006 7:03 PM   
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Status: offline 		How to lower your costs?

Design more of your own parts and either manufacture them yourself or find other suppliers who can.

Design an engine with fewer parts or simpler to manufacture parts.

Design a better engine and reduce costs through greater volume of production.

Starting with a piston/cylinder from Mahle limits your options.

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RE: [b]"TAURUS OWNERS ONLY"[/b] - 3/12/2006 7:37 PM   
Texan



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Status: offline 		Bob,

You touched on an important point that gets overlooked. The quality characteristics that differentiate one product from another must be put in customer terms. Do you buy the engine because it has 2,3,4 or 10 bearings? No, you buy it because it is smoother and more reliable than other offerings. TAURUS' selling feature is not the number of bearings... it is the "fact" that it is smoother and more reliable by design. Now, the next step is proving that it is in fact smoother. Develop a method to quantify the "smoothness" of an engine and perform the tests. Post results such as " The TAURUS engine has x% less vibration that brand D owing to it's proprietary bearing design" or some such comment. This method is used to justify selling a product at a market premium.

Now, look there... Bill did get some free advice after all!

TX


< Message edited by Texan -- 3/12/2006 7:38 PM >

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RE: [b]"TAURUS OWNERS ONLY"[/b] - 3/12/2006 8:54 PM   
Bob Laine



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Status: offline 		I am not a Rocket scientist, nor am a design engineer. I'm simply an avid RC flier with 46+ years in this hobby. I've seen everything we use today when it was introduced into this hobby, and I've seen thousands of product go by the wayside also. And, there are many-many ARF's and other related products in this hobby that will not be around a year from now, simply because of their design, and engineering flaws. As for me coming up with a scientific way of proving that the Taurus engine is the smoothest engine in it's class.........I can't justify going out and and buying a $500.000, seismometer just to prove Taurus, smoother than any other engine in the 50cc class. Other engines that are supposedly made in the USA are simply not as smooth or as reliable, as the Taurus engine is. How can I tell? I can tell by simply placing my hand on the aircraft and feeling the engine vibrations. (or lack thereof) I can tell by watching the horizontal stabilizer as it shakes when the engine is running. (and the prop balanced) I can tell just by simple observation, just as I can tell when a Prop is out of balance. You may, or you may not remember, back in the "fifty's" when the "Hudson Hornet," automobile was so popular on the race car circuit. Back then it set records that no other six cylinder, L-Head type engine could come close to. (some of them still stand today) Why.......? One of the primary reasons was because, unlike other automobiles being manufactured then, They used "Five" main bearings, to support the crankshaft. Most other American made automobile manufacturers used only three. And, because of that one big difference, (among others) the "Hudsons," were much more reliable and smoother, far better endurance record than the other engines being sold in those days were capable of. (that go's for the "Big Three" MFGs" also. Mercedes Benz, and other car makers in Europe were also more advanced in their engine designs (and still are) than the US also. Except for the "exotic" specially built custom engines. There is no doubt that before long, someone is going to build a better engine . I suspect that it will probably be a four stroke GAS design, that will have much cleaner combustion and exaust and run quieter than what we have today. Until then.......It's what's up front that counts.......TAURUS

< Message edited by Bob Laine -- 3/12/2006 9:19 PM >

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