Hobby Lobby Sr. Telemaster ARF (Full Version)

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Greg Covey -> Hobby Lobby Sr. Telemaster ARF (11/25/2005 9:34:41 PM)

Hi,

The new Senior Telemaster ARF from Hobby Lobby is one big value! It comes right out of the box pre-built and covered for less than you could build it yourself. The ARF design is so complete that even all the control surfaces are already attached.

I'll have plenty of fun converting this plane to clean and quiet electric power using my own setup design.

Here a some of the specs for the Sr. Telemaster ARF:

  • 94” wingspan
  • 64” long
  • 1330 sq. in. wing area
  • Flying Stab area 320 sq. in.
  • 10 lbs. 8 oz. flying weight
  • 4 channels; Aileron (2 servos), Elevator, Rudder and Throttle




Flatspin-RCU -> RE: Hobby Lobby Sr. Telemaster ARF (11/26/2005 2:02:33 AM)

Hi Greg...I have a Axi 4130/20. Would that do it? How many Lipos? This would make a great tow plane for lite gliders I was thinking. Like the new easy glider foamy and most 2mm gliders. what do you think?

Ron



Greg Covey -> RE: Hobby Lobby Sr. Telemaster ARF (11/26/2005 2:23:46 PM)

Hi Ron,

The 4130/20 motor should work fine using a 10s Lithium pack. My plan is to use the 4130/16 on a 6s Lithium pack. Since weight is not an issue (other than needing some for proper balance) using NiMH cells is also a good solution for a lower cost.

Here is my planned setup:




MikeFreas -> RE: Hobby Lobby Sr. Telemaster ARF (11/27/2005 1:46:45 AM)

I have the kit version and was planning on the following set up. I plan on hauling a camera and other little things but that's about it. This set up should be good for 3 8 min flights.

4120/18
5S2P 8000 mah pack



Greg Covey -> RE: Hobby Lobby Sr. Telemaster ARF (11/27/2005 6:07:46 PM)

Mike,

That is essentially the Hobby Lobby stock setup with the appropriate Lithium pack replacement. You can see how good it powers the Sr. Telemaster in their video.

My AXI4130 setup has slightly more power but not much more.



algutkin -> RE: Hobby Lobby Sr. Telemaster ARF (11/27/2005 6:28:53 PM)

Greg:

Could the pack setup be 6S2P. I only have 3S packs. So, would the configuration be to take two three packs wire them in series, that would give approx 22.4 volts. Then take two more three packs wire them in series to get 22.4 volts, and then combine the series packs parallel? you would have a total of 12 cells of Li Pros, 22.4 volt output, and assuming 2,000 mah batteries, you would have the 6,000 mah, right?

Al



Greg Covey -> RE: Hobby Lobby Sr. Telemaster ARF (11/27/2005 9:12:44 PM)

Al,

Yes, that's right. I have packs wired that way using the series and parallel connector modules from FMA. Since each module supports up to 5 in series or 5 in parallel, you can cut them apart with a razor knife or Dremel tool. The modules use Dean's Ultra connectors. You can wire the modules to your application and then easily pull the "super" pack apart for other applications. If you fly with them as a 6s2p pack, you can also recharge them as a single pack.

You can buy them at Hobby Lobby here or FMA Direct here.



Greg Covey -> RE: Hobby Lobby Sr. Telemaster ARF (11/27/2005 9:21:49 PM)

For my Sr. Telemaster, I'll be using a single 2p6s BalancePro HD pack which was formerly known as Skyvolt.

The 38oz pack is also used in my Great Planes Lil Toni power system upgrade for pylon racing.

The advantage of this pack (although expensive) is that each cell can be balanced on every charge and monitored during discharge for a true safety cutoff that keeps the pack lasting over 500 cycles. Although the pack can be charged at a 3C charge rate, the BalancePro HD 6s Charger only goes to 10 amps so the actual charge rate is about 1.5C.



algutkin -> RE: Hobby Lobby Sr. Telemaster ARF (11/28/2005 12:49:51 AM)

Thanks for the confirmation. I have the connectors that you mentioned. I don't cut them though, if I don't use all the terminals, I shrink some tubing around the open male Deans terminals, so nothing can short out. I also found that once you cut those strips, they don't go back together and they are expensive.

For added safety, I also put JB Weld (the quick hardening version) over the underside and exposed top side of those terminals. That way a stray washer or misplaced screwdriver will not cause those Li Pos to short out. I found out, through the hard knocks method, that when something shorts out a battery, the first reaction is to jump back. Thus, the batteries just keep on shorting and burning insulation off. When the insulation burns off, even removing the washer or screwdriver doesn't stop the shorting. That is bad, bad, bad, can cause a nasty fire and ruin a perfectly good day.

Just to add some humor, I uploaded some pictures of what my workplace looks like after it was cleaned. For some reason it doesn't look anything like your kitchen table. LOL

PS. I am ordering a Telemaster kit first thing Monday morning, thanks for your contribution to this hobby, it's appreciated greatly.

Al



Greg Covey -> RE: Hobby Lobby Sr. Telemaster ARF (12/2/2005 9:57:40 PM)

My AXI 4130/16 motor arrived for the Sr. Telemaster so I installed the Radial Mount Set and started creating a mount. The basic front design of the Sr. Telemaster allows for a dozen different ways to mount the motor. I choose to create an extended firewall from two 1/4" thick pieces of 3" square birch plywood.

The one piece had been "pre-enjoyed" and had some extra holes in it. It holds the motor mount using #8-32 hardware and T-nuts. The other piece that does not hold the motor, gets cut in half.

I drilled some 1/4" holes on either side at 1-1/2" from the firewall and cut slots to the holes using a craft saw.



Greg Covey -> RE: Hobby Lobby Sr. Telemaster ARF (12/3/2005 7:47:38 PM)

The motor is first screwed to the main 3" square block so that you can detect alignment issues when gluing it in place. I attached one side using three servo screws and epoxy into pre-drilled holes.

The two-sided assembly is then slid into place on the frame and glued in with epoxy while watching the alignment. A slight downthrust is built into the frame and should be followed.

The last step is to screw and glue the third side in place. The result is a rock solid mount for the AXI 4130 motor.



algutkin -> RE: Hobby Lobby Sr. Telemaster ARF (12/18/2005 1:16:46 AM)

Some notes for the Telemaster conversion:

I just finished the Telemaster electric conversion and ran into some minor problems that should be mentioned.

1. There is not enough room for the 4130 motor to fit between the installed wood motor mounts. Some material has to be take out of each of the mounts, approx 1/4 inch each side in order for the outrunner motor case to turn.

2. The aircraft appears to be balanced perfectly with just the Axi 4130 motor installed, therefor, the batteries cannot be mounted directly behind the motor. Since the craft balanced perfectly without the batteries installed, I installed my battery packs in front of the servo tray, at approximately the suggested aircraft CG. You don't need the wings attached to approximate the CG. Measure back from the front of the wing saddle and test the CG with your fingers first, by grabbing the fuse. Install the wings later for the final test. I also reinforced the area between the plywood brace that separates the fuel tank compartment and the servo tray. You don't want batteries sliding into the servo tray.

3. Using some spare LiPro battery packs, I came up with the following measurements with the 15-8 APC prop. I did not use the APC Electric prop, I used the standard, non flexible prop. I maxed at only 32 amps wide open throttle, approx. 7200 RPM, 690 watts. The weight of the aircraft finished right on the money. With a 6,000 mah battery pack I quit running the motor at 12 minutes, it was getting cold and I was standing behind the prop. To achieve a minimum 12 min. run time I varied the speed between 50% and 100%.

4. Something that nobody talks about. Unless you have a large financial battery allowance, your battery packs must be set up so that they can be charged with your current charger, usually a max of 4 cells. In other words, don't solder them together in series, the voltage will be too high to charge with most standard chargers.

Hope I helped.

Al G.



algutkin -> RE: Hobby Lobby Sr. Telemaster ARF (12/19/2005 3:11:09 PM)

Telemaster flight report:

I flew the Telemaster for the first time on Sunday, Dec. 17 and it flew just like the video. I especially was eager to fly the Telemaster, because, for such a big plane, it looked like it could fly in a smaller area. Here in Southern California RC flying has deminished due to the lack of flying fields. I lucked out and found an abandoned farm in Norco, the land soon to be used for another housing development. There was a huge paved area behind the farm that obviously was used for a coverered hay storage area. The top was gone, however the cement base was still there along with the remnants of the harware, nuts, bolts, nails, steel angle pieces. The cement base was approx 2,000 feet long and made a perfect runway.

The Telemaster really liked the flying area, I flew that baby for 8 minutes doing touch and goes, slow flight, almost vertical climbs, even tried the flat skidding rudder turns seen in the video. I was so happy with the way the Telemaster flew that I started to get reckless. I even took off with a tailwind, this plane could do anything. On the last takeoff the Telemaster hit a large bolt on the ground before reaching flying speed, the plane got cocked on the runway and I decided to pull back and get it off the ground ASAP. It did it, that plane jumped right off the ground in a sideways position and actually looked like it was going to fly. Oooops, it could not get enough altitude and the main gear hit a two foot high wall that bordered the cement area. All the important stuff was not hurt, and the airframe was not a total loss, just the tail section broke toward the rear fuse, The main wing was perfect. Sometimes it's easier to start from scratch, so, a new plane was ordered. The good things about Sunday's flight, the Telemaster flew good as expected and I found a private flying field. Only next time, I am bringing a large push broom.

The only suggested improvement that could be made to the Telemaster would be to connect the elevator halves before installation of the tail section. I really didn't like seperate elevator push rods attached to one dowel, they travel quite a distance and could cause differential elevator action due to the sloppyness of the action.

Anyhow, thanks to Hobby Lobby's 2 day shipping rates, my next Telemaster will be completed this weekend. Check back here soon, the Telemaster is destined to become a camera plane.

Al G



Greg Covey -> RE: Hobby Lobby Sr. Telemaster ARF (12/19/2005 10:46:06 PM)

Al,

Thanks for the report. Sorry to hear about your bad take-off. Too bad we don't get Mulligans in this hobby. :)

I'll be back on my Telemaster real soon as I finished my Decathlon and the 20-25 degree weather has been windy as well.

The big wheels on the Telemaster should easily handle some snow and ice so my video will be interesting.



algutkin -> RE: Hobby Lobby Sr. Telemaster ARF (12/20/2005 1:33:14 AM)

Greg:

I might beat you to making a video. LOL Mine is going to be funny, I just have to recruit somone to hold the camera. They won't even blur the shots, the Telemaster doesn't go that fast. Too bad your video has to be serious, you are a serious reviewer..LOL
Besides, the Telemaster is really a boring flyer compared to your other projects. The Telemaster is almost like slow motion, it's a real floater.

Don't forget Hobby Lobby has a video that goes along with their listing. The Hobby Lobby video appeals to us older guys..LOL Are you going to fly that baby inverted to make it exciting?

Take care, and keep warm.

Al G.



Greg Covey -> RE: Hobby Lobby Sr. Telemaster ARF (12/21/2005 1:59:01 PM)

The ESC power input was wired to the Dean's Ultra connector in parallel with a 6v UBEC. The 6v UBEC will provide a stronger and quicker response on my FMA DS300BB digital servos. The UBEC also eliminates the need for a separate receiver battery.


I drilled three 3/8" holes close together to create a slot in the firewall for feeding the motor wires into the fuselage. According to Al's findings, the battery pack will reside close to the CG so the entire compartment behind the firewall is available for other components.



algutkin -> RE: Hobby Lobby Sr. Telemaster ARF (12/21/2005 5:00:10 PM)

Greg:

Please don't rely on my testing of the Telemaster, as you know, I am an amateur at this stuff, and I learn new things every day. Usually after I finish, I alway find ways of improving upon my first attempt at completing an ARF project. I would advise everyone to review what is posted, and make their own decisions as to the building process. I would not be insulted or hurt if my report is improved or changed.

Another note re: my project.

I don't take anything for granted when it comes to electric conversions, and even though it appears that the motor only drew 50% of the amp capacity of the controller at wide open throttle, and nothing even got warm, I was still worried about controller cooling. The controller was mounted on the fuse wall just below the wing saddle and would not be in line for any air circulation. To make myself feel better, I drilled two 1/2 inch holes through the windshield area into the main cabin for cooling. When I did this, I could not get the exact angle and the drill upset the balsa, the holes didn't come out perfectly round. To cover this up I stripped the black covering off the windshield and applied new black covering that covered the holes. I then used a soldering iron to make perfectly round holes through the new covering. It ended up looking good, but, I'm sure when you get further along you will find a much more professional way of assuring yourself of controller cooling.

Take care
Al G.



Greg Covey -> RE: Hobby Lobby Sr. Telemaster ARF (12/22/2005 12:25:43 AM)

Al,

Don't worry, I'm having fun with this model. It's like a big toy with more room inside than you'll ever need. :)

I won't secure the Pack, ESC and UBEC until I do a CG check. The easiest way to keep the ESC cool on this model is by drilling holes in the firewall and providing an air exit aft of the battery pack.

The gear mains and wheels installed easily without any issues. You simply cut away the film covering in the two channels and pre-drill the eight holes for the screws.

Note that the manual is meant for a different version of the ARF than what is sold by Hobby Lobby. Many steps are already finished on the Hobby Lobby ARF, like the control surfaces all being attached. Others steps must be modified due to the high degree of pre-assembly, like the horizontal stabilizer mounting...which is coming up next.



Greg Covey -> RE: Hobby Lobby Sr. Telemaster ARF (12/22/2005 9:48:40 PM)

The tail on the Senior Telemaster appears to be built for a version of the ARF that didn't already have the control surfaces attached. This doesn't create too much of a problem as long as you are willing to do some custom cutting and think ahead so that things go together properly.

The first step is to cut the small section of tail away so that the bulky airfoil stabilizer can be slid into position from the rear. Note that the fuselage is on its side because you can see the airfoil opening. I also needed to cut some other tail areas to help the stabilizer position move forward. I find it easiest to position the stabilizer where I want it and then trace the section of covering to be cut away with a felt tip marker.



Calixto -> RE: Hobby Lobby Sr. Telemaster ARF (12/22/2005 10:06:37 PM)

Hi Greg.

Is yours the last version of the Senior Telemaster ARF? I ordered one, but I understand the new version is designed for electric power, and I intend to use a four stroke Magnum 91. Will appreciate your comments.
Calixto



algutkin -> RE: Hobby Lobby Sr. Telemaster ARF (12/22/2005 11:45:55 PM)

Greg:

Two or three notes:

I just ordered some product from FMA Direct for the first time. I was really impressed with their professional attitude. They actually called me becuase my shipping selection was too costly and that perhaps I made a mistake, that I could save money with an alternative. At Christmas time this kind of service goes way beyond normal. I wanted to take this opportunity to give them some publicity. I have delt with other suppliers in the past and none impressed me the way that they did. Personal service is hard to come by these days.

RE: The Telemaster

Greg and others, obviously you are finding out about the different quirks regarding the Hobby Lobby Telemaster ARF. The facts that the ailerons, rudder and elevator are already installed and glued, also that some small pieces of balsa have to be removed in order to slide the elevator into place etc. However the engine mounts are installed and appear to be set up for the Glo version. To convert the craft to electric, the mounts have to be modified. Greg points this out in a previous post. Also, a fuel tank is included in the kit, along with a plywood piece that fits forward of the cabin bulkhead between the firewall, this piece supports the fuel tank. You will find the piece included in a clear harware bag with the servo tray within the kit. Also, there is a decorative strip that fits infront of the rudder to streamline the air flow to the rudder, this piece attaches to the lower front of the rudder and covers a gap betweeen the rudder and the body. This strip is coverered in yellow and is attached with clear tape to one of the main wing halves packaged in the box. Don't loose it.

Like any other kit, the directions were not written by professional writers for the first time builder. Some minor improvising must be exercised in order to build the kit. These steps are very minor, and any mistakes can be easily corrected. A small roll of yellow covering material is included in the kit, this has helped me to cover my minor mistakes and modifications.

Anyone building this kit will just love how easy it is to build, how nice it flys, and how easy it is to correct any building mistakes. This is the type of plane that takes less than a week of part time to build, and it's big. It flies like a baby, jumps off the ground, and will take some abuse. It is also set up for glo, however, you must already know how to assemble a glo fuel tank, the manual is very skimpy. For electric conversions, this thread is all you need to know, ask Greg.

Hope I helped

Al G.



Greg Covey -> RE: Hobby Lobby Sr. Telemaster ARF (12/23/2005 1:02:30 AM)

Calixto,

I don't know. I'll check with Hobby Lobby and report back. Mine did come with a glow fuel tank.

Al,

Thanks, we need a hug now and then because this industry can be brutal at times. I'll pass it along to customer service.

As for the Senior Telemaster, it is a barrel of fun. I expect it to fly well no matter what changes we make. It's a design that became famous for its flying stab, the secret to its slow flight and forgiving range of CG.



Greg Covey -> RE: Hobby Lobby Sr. Telemaster ARF (12/23/2005 1:42:24 AM)

You can see that the rudder will not fit without some slight modifications. I cut away the tail channel at the very end for the rudder to fit and also decided to mount the tailwheel assembly at this point.

Since my tail end and horizontal flying stab did not perfectly mate in the rear, I cut a narrow vertical channel for the tailwheel bar to run in on its way to the rudder. A 1" deep hole is needed in the rudder for the tailwheel bar. It was easiest to attach the tailwheel assembly to the fuselage bottom first using two screws and then epoxy the rudder in place by sliding onto the bar as it entered the fuselage channel. Remember to sand off the black paint on the section of bar that goes into the rudder for a better glue hold.

After the epoxy dried, I ran a bead of thick white glue along the seams as they had some gaps to be filled. This looks better and adds strength to the joint. My trusty Hobbico Builder's Triangle kept the two stabs at a right angle.

Not much room for dinner while building this plane on the kitchen table so I was forced to clean up for the day.



Greg Covey -> RE: Hobby Lobby Sr. Telemaster ARF (12/23/2005 2:47:50 PM)

Calixto,

The word back from Hobby Lobby is that the ARF is built exactly per the kit plans. There is nothing different about it, other than a removable hatch has been added on the nose. The hatch allows access to batteries for electric versions or the fuel tank for glow powered versions. It will build either way, they just choose to promote it electrically.



MikeFreas -> RE: Hobby Lobby Sr. Telemaster ARF (12/23/2005 4:48:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: algutkin

Greg:

Please don't rely on my testing of the Telemaster, as you know, I am an amateur at this stuff, and I learn new things every day. Usually after I finish, I alway find ways of improving upon my first attempt at completing an ARF project. I would advise everyone to review what is posted, and make their own decisions as to the building process. I would not be insulted or hurt if my report is improved or changed.

Another note re: my project.

I don't take anything for granted when it comes to electric conversions, and even though it appears that the motor only drew 50% of the amp capacity of the controller at wide open throttle, and nothing even got warm, I was still worried about controller cooling. The controller was mounted on the fuse wall just below the wing saddle and would not be in line for any air circulation. To make myself feel better, I drilled two 1/2 inch holes through the windshield area into the main cabin for cooling. When I did this, I could not get the exact angle and the drill upset the balsa, the holes didn't come out perfectly round. To cover this up I stripped the black covering off the windshield and applied new black covering that covered the holes. I then used a soldering iron to make perfectly round holes through the new covering. It ended up looking good, but, I'm sure when you get further along you will find a much more professional way of assuring yourself of controller cooling.

Take care
Al G.


If your really concerned about cooling the ESC or batteries here is my solution. If the ARF is built the same as the kit then it will not be hard to add cooling ducts. I simply came up with a pattern and cut through the sheeting. The I added some supporting spruce pieces on the inside. I'm not done smoothing it out but it give you an idea. I mounted my aileron and elevator servos in the tail so I hope that my battery needs to go in that compartment for CG. All of the under wing area is open for cargo.



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