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All Forums >> Glow Engines, Gas Engines, Fuel & Mfg Support Forums >> RC Fuels >> 100% Castor based fuels
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100% Castor based fuels - 11/30/2005 3:37:59 AM   
voodoodb



Posts: 219
Joined: 6/9/2002
From: Flora, MS, USA
Status: offline 		I have a question regarding 100% castor blended fuels. I have read that most of the larger 2 stroke nitro engines run perfectly fine on the 100% castor blend. Though smaller 2 stroke and all 4 stroke nitro engines, most people say that they need some synthetic oil. Can someone tell me why this is? I have access to all ingredients to make 100% castor nitro fuels free. I would like to know if anyone has tried 100% castor in 4 stroke and small 2 stroke oils with success. I am presently flying an old OS 61 4 stroke and some old timers that run .10 and smaller 2 stroke engines.

Thanks
Voodoo
       Post #: 1

RE: 100% Castor based fuels - 11/30/2005 3:44:40 AM   
Hobbsy



Posts: 10379
Joined: 12/2/2001
From: Colonial Beach, VA, USA
Status: offline 		I have been running Fox 5% nitro all castor fuel in two strokes from a Fox .15 to an MDS 2.18 and SuperTigre 3000, there is no reason to use synthetic in small two strokes. I run a syn.castor 80/20 blend in my fourstrokes.

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Giant Saito, 73.2 Cu. In., 70.5HP @ 5,800 rpm, 79 ft. lbs torque @ 3,500 rpm, 57 mpg, 3.50 bore, 3.81 stroke. 563 lbs.

(in reply to voodoodb)
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RE: 100% Castor based fuels - 11/30/2005 1:47:06 PM   
Fuelman


 

Posts: 996
Joined: 12/31/2001
From: Jordan, NY, USA
Status: offline 		Voodoo,
The all castor fuel will not hurt a thing in your engines. The big thing that people mention regarding castor in 4-strokes is the carbon and varnish buildup on the valves, especially the exhaust valve. This can be avoided if the 4-stroke is not run too lean, if you run your 4-stroke 400 to 500 rpms rich, that will help minimize the carbon/ varnish buildup on the valves. If mixing fuel for the old four strokes, you will only need about 15% oil in the blend.


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Fuelman
Cooper Fuels LLC

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RE: 100% Castor based fuels - 11/30/2005 8:00:12 PM   
MJD


 

Posts: 1492
Joined: 5/27/2003
From: Orangeville, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Is the castor you can get free pure degummed castor intended for use in engines, or is it some other grade such as medicinal or for polymer modification, etc.?

Small engines don't mind castor at all. Generally one is often advised to consider higher percentages of castor relative to synthetic in small engines, such as 50/50 syn/cas versus 80/20.

MJD

(in reply to voodoodb)
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RE: 100% Castor based fuels - 11/30/2005 10:45:44 PM   
voodoodb



Posts: 219
Joined: 6/9/2002
From: Flora, MS, USA
Status: offline 		MJD, I work for a very large industrial coatings manufacturer. We use a blown castor which is really thick in the coatings. However I had the supplier send me samples of some unblown, degummed. I got the specs for it off of one of these forums and supplied to our castor supplier. Methanol we store in 10,000 gal bulk tanks. Nitro is the hardest to get. As long as I don't ask for to much and to often though, I can get. Last time they gave me 5 gal of nitro, that is over 99% pure. I had the lab check to see what it's purity was. Also our Methanol is extremely pure, as we can't have water or other impurities presence in our coatings which could cause problems.

Thanks
Voodoo

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       Post #: 5

RE: 100% Castor based fuels - 12/1/2005 1:58:47 AM   
downunder



Posts: 3105
Joined: 10/10/2002
From: Adelaide, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		The unblown degummed castor would be fine but the chances are it's a combination of pressed and chemically extracted castor in which case there'll likely be traces of xylene. This xylene is what gives the white flakes sometimes seen in fuels when it's very cold. I use Castrol M castor which has never shown white flakes so I'd assume it's pressed oil.

I haven't got any experience with 4 strokes but I know that any size 2 stroke will work perfectly well with all castor. Over a long period they'll get a build up of carbon but this usually takes years and is easily cleaned out. But this is why most like to use some synthetic because it's supposed to stop the carbon from sticking. Personally I'd be wary using a blend with cast iron pistons, especially a Fox.

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RE: 100% Castor based fuels - 12/1/2005 2:46:40 AM   
voodoodb



Posts: 219
Joined: 6/9/2002
From: Flora, MS, USA
Status: offline 		Downunder, I checked with our chemist and the castor is 100% castor. There is no Xylene in it. As far as I can tell everything is extremely pure. However, does the presence of Xylene cause any harm other than white flakes?

Voodoo

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       Post #: 7

RE: 100% Castor based fuels - 12/1/2005 2:48:04 AM   
voodoodb



Posts: 219
Joined: 6/9/2002
From: Flora, MS, USA
Status: offline 		Alos one other question. Would this 100% castor blend be OK to run in a Ducted Fan, or do they need the synthetic?

Voodoo

(in reply to voodoodb)
       Post #: 8

RE: 100% Castor based fuels - 12/1/2005 5:06:26 AM   
Fuelman


 

Posts: 996
Joined: 12/31/2001
From: Jordan, NY, USA
Status: offline 		You should be fine Voodoo. And yes, a ducted fan will be just fine with all castor.


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Cooper Fuels LLC

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RE: 100% Castor based fuels - 12/1/2005 12:55:48 PM   
downunder



Posts: 3105
Joined: 10/10/2002
From: Adelaide, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		It seems the xylene is just the barest trace left of the chemicals used for the final extraction of all the oil from the bean and as far as I know all it does is give those white flakes. These might block filters or the needle valve but only if the fuel is very cold. Virtually all castor comes from India and pressing only gets out about 70% of the oil, the chemical process gets out the rest.

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RE: 100% Castor based fuels - 12/1/2005 2:43:27 PM   
Sport_Pilot



Posts: 7412
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Acworth, GA, USA
Status: offline 		Blown castor is usually made from AA castor. It is heated and hot air is blown through it. This partially oxidizes it and turns it into a "drying" oil. That is you can use it as a varnish, spread it on and it will eventually solidify. Obviously it is only used in paints. Even though it is blown it takes much longer to cure than linseed or tung oil. I believe it is used in alkyd paints to make them last longer, or as a plasticizer in latex lacquers, and two part epoxies and polyurethanes.

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RE: 100% Castor based fuels - 12/1/2005 4:53:05 PM   
MJD


 

Posts: 1492
Joined: 5/27/2003
From: Orangeville, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Castor oil is actually a tri-functional polyol, and finds use in polyurethane chemistry and elsewhere. Yeah Voodoo if you're making coatings, esp. using urethane chemistry then you have dry raw materials for sure. We make rocket propellants and they rely on urethane chemistry (polyol-isocyanate reaction) to cure so I know about the woes of moisture.. all too well .

If you're worried about flakes run a filter on your fuel can outlet. No biggie. And flush your tank now and then I guess.

And not to insult your intelligence whatsoever, but just asking - you are going to mix by volume right? While most formulators in paints, coatings, adhesives, propellants, etc. work by weight percentages, standard fuel formulae are by tradition done by volume. With the exception of one major manufacturer however whose nitromethane percentages are by weight and therefore 1.127 IIRC times what they are by volume like everyone else quotes. Not enough to make a big performance difference but nonetheless the difference is there.

MJD

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RE: 100% Castor based fuels - 12/1/2005 11:01:15 PM   
voodoodb



Posts: 219
Joined: 6/9/2002
From: Flora, MS, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks guys for all the help. MJD , yes I am doing by volume.

Voodoo

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RE: 100% Castor based fuels - 12/2/2005 7:27:56 PM   
MJD


 

Posts: 1492
Joined: 5/27/2003
From: Orangeville, ON, CANADA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MJD

And not to insult your intelligence whatsoever, but just asking - you are going to mix by volume right? While most formulators in paints, coatings, adhesives, propellants, etc. work by weight percentages, standard fuel formulae are by tradition done by volume. With the exception of one major manufacturer however whose nitromethane percentages are by weight and therefore 1.127 IIRC times what they are by volume like everyone else quotes. Not enough to make a big performance difference but nonetheless the difference is there.

MJD


Oops - I meant to say "..1.127 IIRC times LESS than what they are by volume.."

i.e. that manufacturer's "10%" nitro fuel would actually be about 8.87% by volume for comparison. Yeah it will work pretty much the same, but nitromethane is the most expensive ingredient so you can see where I'm going with that...

MJD

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       Post #: 14

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