RE: I'm sick of MAAC  
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RE: I'm sick of MAAC - 12/13/2005 6:40:45 PM   
Jim_McIntyre



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sharpy01
...!QUOT!get involved!QUOT! mantra is tiring because getting involved in a bloated bureaucratic system and effecting change is impossible if you haven't managed to garner some support at the ground floor.


in other words .. first do your homework, then get involved?

Marc, this has been our issue from the start. You appear to wish to tear down all existing work in the hopes that some magical phoenix will rise from the ashes. My fear is that only happens in fables, in reality, the ashes dissipate, leaving nothing but a bad taste in ones mouth.

MAAC is no behemoth of beurocracy, in fact it is run by very few people, half of which I would be able to recognize and strike up a conversation if I met them on the sidewalk. Because of this, the only way anything happens is because there are numerous devout volunteers who are not afraid to !QUOT!get involved!QUOT!, and make things happen..... in spite of the numerous armchair critics who will protest how it was done.

Is MAAC perfect? No.... what is?

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RE: I'm sick of MAAC - 12/13/2005 7:25:46 PM   
Sharpy01



Posts: 600
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From: Kenora, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		........and one of my problems from the start is the notion that any suggestion of doing anything differently meets with, "hey, quiet, you don't know what you're talking about, get involved.." Then, when I did............... "how dare you get involved and not go with the flow and maintain the staus quo". Those who say "shuddup and get involved".............don't really mean it. They just want you to shut up.

As for the ususal BS about armchairing the volunteers. aahhhhh, I didn't get paid......BUT BUT BUT, I had to perform the duties of a member of a board of directors of a national organization and a huge part of that is the responsibility to ensure the membership's money is being properly spent and ACCOUNTED for. It was my insistance of the latter that earned me the wrath of a very small group within MAAC that used.........and continue to use .... the internet as a medium to discredit and hide behind the label of "volunteer" to avoid accountability.

IMO

< Message edited by Sharpy01 -- 12/13/2005 7:26:05 PM >

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       Post #: 52

RE: I'm sick of MAAC - 12/13/2005 7:28:24 PM   
r/cnerd



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim_McIntyre

quote:

ORIGINAL: r/cnerd
... I don't think the sky would fall without MAAC to lobby on our behalf. Everyday new technology makes freq. conflicts more and more a thing of the past. As well RC is an INDUSTRY so stop painting industry as the adversary.


"I don't think" ... exactly.

The states are already in trouble with some frequency sharing issues, why? because the AMA blinked (imho). We are not far behind on that path and, if MAAC blinks, we will all be looking to replace our significant investments in equipment. Equipment, I might add, that doesn't exist as a commercial product yet except for land vehicles and park flyers .... why? Because it's not as reliable, especially at distance.



Taking something out of context and turning it into an insult is hardly inteligent commentary, Jim!

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RE: I'm sick of MAAC - 12/13/2005 8:10:52 PM   
britbrat


 

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Status: offline 		You can lead a horse to water but -----

No MAAC=no frequency protection=no RC flying. It is as simple as that. MAAC is the sole representative authority for RC model aircraft operations recognized by the Canadian federal govt, & is the sole agency responsible for negotiating/coordinating with the Feds re RC model frequency use. Like it or not -- that is the situation & that is where part of the money goes.

Following 9-11 the US federal govt was preparing legislation banning the use of RC model AC by the general public -- the Canadian fed govt was watching closely. The Pres of the AMA & the Pres. of MAAC made a presentation to the US Congress that forstalled that legislation.

Don't kid yourself, the sky will actually fall under your "everyone for himself in the market place" scenario.

< Message edited by britbrat -- 12/13/2005 8:11:50 PM >

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RE: I'm sick of MAAC - 12/13/2005 9:04:25 PM   
gingertoad


 

Posts: 64
Joined: 6/21/2005
From: Prescott, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		......... and for the record, MAAC ensures that a competent representative of MAAC, usually the Radio Spectrum Chairman, is at every meeting of the Radio Advisory Board of Canada,
Why? Because if MAAC did not act as a watchdog of frequencies, we would be almost certain to lose them. And while we are at it, is MAAC doing a thorough investigation of the pros and cons of the new 2.4 gig hz Spread Spectrum radios? - Yes!

(in reply to britbrat)
       Post #: 55

RE: I'm sick of MAAC - 12/13/2005 9:30:03 PM   
britbrat


 

Posts: 3299
Joined: 6/15/2004
From: Deep River, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		----all of which means --- the RC water is far deeper than you thought.

Perhaps you personally, and perhaps an unknown number of other park fliers will be disaffected, annoyed & unhappy. In the end, that could very well be the price of doing business. You can't please everyone & you will go nuts trying. You concerns aren't new, but they probably can't be resolved for a reasonable amount of effort & money.

If you are cognizant of marketing practices, you are also aware that at any given time, some business just isn't worth the cost of chasing it. It isn't that the particular bit of business isn't wanted, it is just not economically accessible under the circumstances extant.

I have problems with some aspects of MAAC, but, like you, I'm not really even sure if I'm in the ballgame, let alone on base. I don't have any practical answers to my perceived greivances & maybe I really don't have the right questions. I have to live with my own angst -- probably like you will.

C'est la guerre.

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       Post #: 56

RE: I'm sick of MAAC - 12/13/2005 9:33:32 PM   
r/cnerd



Posts: 115
Joined: 10/27/2005
From: CALGARY, AB, CANADA
Status: offline 		Ok, so why is it that other industries can look out for themselves but our industry needs a user group to do so?

And what about my suggestion about 1-day memberships? Any takers? Oh you will say then no-one will get a full membership? Then charge more i.e. 25$ per day or restrict users with day memberships to only certain types of beginner aircraft. Who will police? No-one unless they wish to. but a guy who has an accident flying a plane he's not authorized to fly obviously isn't going to be covered.

Our hobby has become plug and play. Why is access to flying fields not?

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RE: I'm sick of MAAC - 12/13/2005 9:34:08 PM   
Jim_McIntyre



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sharpy01
........and one of my problems from the start is the notion that any suggestion of doing anything differently meets with...

As for the ususal BS about armchairing the volunteers....

IMO


Ok, I'm not here to answer to the actions of others, if I've been responsible for this behaviour, kindly point it out. We have had many occasions to discuss these items, I do tend to take a show me don't tell me approch but, I think that's fair.

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RE: I'm sick of MAAC - 12/13/2005 9:35:50 PM   
Jim_McIntyre



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quote:

ORIGINAL: r/cnerd
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim_McIntyre

quote:

ORIGINAL: r/cnerd
... I don't think the sky would fall without MAAC to lobby on our behalf. Everyday new technology makes freq. conflicts more and more a thing of the past. As well RC is an INDUSTRY so stop painting industry as the adversary.


"I don't think" ... exactly.
...



Taking something out of context and turning it into an insult is hardly inteligent commentary, Jim!


I assume this is waht you're referring to.... Sorry, context lost in text ... I was inferring that you hadn't thought through your scenario to it's obvious conclusion, not intending to infer anything about your mental capacity.


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RE: I'm sick of MAAC - 12/13/2005 9:47:02 PM   
Jim_McIntyre



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quote:

ORIGINAL: r/cnerd
Ok, so why is it that other industries can look out for themselves but our industry needs a user group to do so?


MAAC is not an industry, MAAC is a non-profit volunteer organization with a mandate of supporting it's members.

quote:

ORIGINAL: r/cnerd
And what about my suggestion about 1-day memberships? Any takers? Oh you will say ...


Don't go putting words into our mouths or we won't get anywhere. I don't personally know if this has been investigated, I can forsee how it could work.... if you feel strongly about it, why not do some groundwork and submit a proposal to MAAC. Of course you should probably to address the issues you pointed out including policing, administration (membership is not a by the minute turnaround today) etc. As a positive feedback, I think you should avoid trying to define type of aircraft ... this is difficult for previous reasons posted.

quote:

ORIGINAL: r/cnerd
Our hobby has become plug and play. Why is access to flying fields not?


The simple answer is to protect the innocent... My personal beef here, I know many disagree but, maybe the hobby shouldn't be so plu and play .... I've seen people get in over their heads resulting in dangerous situations, and occasional injury (I'm thankful that none I've seen have resulted in permanent damage). Before the advent of "plug and play" (intentionally avoiding hot topic terms here), there used to be some inherent requirements that had the potential modeller doing some homework before committing to flight, or even attempting to hand prop that DA 150.....

< Message edited by Jim_McIntyre -- 12/13/2005 9:49:07 PM >

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RE: I'm sick of MAAC - 12/13/2005 9:48:04 PM   
Jim_McIntyre



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Status: offline 		double post.

< Message edited by Jim_McIntyre -- 12/13/2005 9:49:34 PM >

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RE: I'm sick of MAAC - 12/13/2005 10:34:24 PM   
britbrat


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: r/cnerd

Ok, so why is it that other industries can look out for themselves but our industry needs a user group to do so?




Our "industry", as you put it, manufactures & plays with articles of personal ammusement. It so happens that theses articles periodically hurt or kill people, they make use of toxic chemicals & use strictly controlled radio frequencies -- making the "industry" vulnerable, if not subject to specific jurisdictional regulation & subject to some aspects of international law.

You will find that "other industries" that have similar potential for public harm, or are perceived to have the potential for public harm, either look after themselves through a collective manufacturer's association, or a hired lobby organization, or they are "looked after" by the various & numerous jurisdictional regulatory agencies.

MAAC is our voice in the regulatory environment & it is instrumental in convincing the regulators that the users of the industry products are self-policing. It is also an organizing agency for coordinating the very activities that make this play time so appealing.

Without some kind of central voice, we individuals involved in this play activity, and "the industry", would be "looked after" by the not-so-kindly regulatory agencies. All of this costs money & effort -- volunteer effort plus some permanent hired staff.

MAAC operates at an incredibly low price, but additional complications will drive up overall costs & effort. You seem to favour this in order for a number of individuals to avoid paying the full share of protecting both themselves & the public at large. If you want park-fliers outside the MAAC envelope, just be prepared for the regulatory fall-out that will arise when someone is killed or maimed as a result of park-flier usage.

< Message edited by britbrat -- 12/13/2005 10:46:47 PM >

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RE: I'm sick of MAAC - 12/13/2005 10:37:05 PM   
r/cnerd



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From: CALGARY, AB, CANADA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: r/cnerd

Ok, so why is it that other industries can look out for themselves but our industry needs a user group to do so?

And what about my suggestion about 1-day memberships? Any takers? Oh you will say then no-one will get a full membership? Then charge more i.e. 25$ per day or restrict users with day memberships to only certain types of beginner aircraft. Who will police? No-one unless they wish to. but a guy who has an accident flying a plane he's not authorized to fly obviously isn't going to be covered.

Our hobby has become plug and play. Why is access to flying fields not?



[Our Industry=R/C manufacturers, not MAAC.]




You raise some valid points...but could the innocent not be protected more if flying fields were easier for newbs to access?

As far as membership processing times, that's exactly what I meant when I stated "MAAC is stuck in the past"...Encouraging new members means easier accessibility and less waiting. Don't take this as a diss in the smaller sense of "you should get better computers" or whatever would allow faster membership acsess. I am trying to suggest a different attitude, one which is more in tune with today's instant gratifcation obsessed populace: Buy a plane sunday morning, fly it sunday afternoon.


I'm pretty sure If MAAC allowed a day pass to be sold (online? by the club?) that in many cases significantly greater yearly revenue could be generated. People in general tend to be a little shortsighted when it comes to choices like $75/yr versus $25/ day.
many guys would probably pay for 3 or 4 days and then get a year membership, effectively doubling revenue. I think that perhaps part of the problem is the fact that MAAC is non-profit, and therefore is more bearocratic and perhaps less effective. Also if a capitalist owned MAAC I'm sure he would rope in customers as fast as possible.
I think there must be a tiered membership if day passes are offered, to encourage full membership and to limit what beginners can fly. It's easy to say "that's impossible to monitor" but you don't have to....just make the rules and deny coverage to anyone who is found to have broken them.

So will flying field allow non MAAC members to fly at their fields with private insurance?

Has anyone ever opened a for profit "pay to play" venue where MAAC is not required, and the field owners buy insurance for their business instead of flyers insuring individually?

I feel strongly that a flying site which is legal, safe, and where experienced help can be found should be available to the consuming public without having to buy a membership in advance. I believe this could do great things for our hobby!

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