RE: Seriously now, can it take off or not? What do you think?  
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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> Aerodynamics >> RE: Seriously now, can it take off or not? What do you think?
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[Poll]

Seriously now, can it take off or not? What do you think?
Yes, it will take off.
  69% (61)
No, it won't take off.
  30% (27)


Total Votes : 88
(last vote on : 8/21/2007 11:55:01 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: Seriously now, can it take off or not? What do y... - 12/9/2005 8:40:58 PM   
MinnFlyer



Posts: 19374
Joined: 4/22/2002
From: Willmar, MN, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mr_matt


And the plane stays on the conveyor and will not take off.


Again, this is where your "Logic" becomes illogical.

Ok Matt, let's try this:

You are in an elevator on the 10th floor.

The cable breaks

Just before the elevator hits the ground, you jump up as high as you can.

By your logic, you will survive.

You keep insisting that the plane is somehow stuck to this conveyor belt. Why not just say that there is a magical rope tied to the tail?

Once again... Hopefully for the last time.

If you are going to match a hypothetical belt to a practical airplane, then the belt must comply with the same principles of physics that the plane is forced to comply with. Otherwise it's giving the belt an unfair advantage - like giving the airplane an unacceptably powerful engine. Right? Glad you agree.

So realistically, there are only two things holding the plane to the belt. Gravity, and Friction. Follow me so far?

Since the Friction involved is Kenetic, the more speed there is between the two surfaces, the less friction is involved.

Therefore:

As the belt tries to compensate for the for the ever forward moving plane, the belt will develope more speed. Still with me?

As it developes more and more speed, the friction becomes less and less.

The belt is losing it's own battle!

The harder it tries to hold back the plane, the less influence it has on it... And eventually the plane takes off, looks back, and laughes at the belt, the guy who designed it, and his mother.

Now again, if you want to add hypothetical glues to the belt, you might as well tie a hypothetical rope to the tail - both of which give the belt an unfair advantage.

If you still can't comprehend this, I suggest two things:

1. Take a course in physics
2. Pay me in small bills

quote:

ORIGINAL: mr_matt
Do I get the $10K?


No, you lost the bet


_____________________________

Mike B.
AMA# 42400 www.gettingairborne.com

"Those are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others." - Groucho Marx

(in reply to mr_matt)
       Post #: 51

RE: Seriously now, can it take off or not? What do y... - 12/9/2005 9:36:30 PM   
mr_matt



Posts: 6586
Joined: 12/7/2001
From: Oak Park, CA,
Status: offline

<groan> So is this a "no"? We got all of the way through this and it is a "no"?

In the future if you are not up to taking such a big bet just say so in the first line, it will save a lot of typing :-)



_____________________________

Matt
JetCat rep

(in reply to MinnFlyer)
       Post #: 52

RE: Seriously now, can it take off or not? What do ... - 12/9/2005 9:43:08 PM   
MinnFlyer



Posts: 19374
Joined: 4/22/2002
From: Willmar, MN, USA
Status: offline 		No to what???

Ok, in plain simple English...

1. Yes, I will accept your bet.
2. Pay up, you lost

_____________________________

Mike B.
AMA# 42400 www.gettingairborne.com

"Those are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others." - Groucho Marx

(in reply to mr_matt)
       Post #: 53

RE: Seriously now, can it take off or not? What do ... - 12/9/2005 9:53:21 PM   
Liberator


 

Posts: 793
Joined: 3/2/2005
From: Sandy, UT, USA
Status: offline 		Minn,

Now watch the wiggling start.

I tried to get the focus to a repeatable experiment and was told it was not the same thing. But I still think it was.

Again.

3D foamy, held by the tail and the belly, dremel tool spinning up each wheel in the opposite direction of forward travel, throttle advanced to full speed. How much will the reverse spinning wheels have to do with the plane once it is let go?

That would be nada.




_____________________________

One man's crash is another man's carefully planned landing maneuver.

(in reply to MinnFlyer)
       Post #: 54

RE: Seriously now, can it take off or not? What do ... - 12/9/2005 11:14:37 PM   
mr_matt



Posts: 6586
Joined: 12/7/2001
From: Oak Park, CA,
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MinnFlyer

No to what???

Ok, in plain simple English...

1. Yes, I will accept your bet.
2. Pay up, you lost


Let me guess, you don't do a lot of betting, do you?

_____________________________

Matt
JetCat rep

(in reply to MinnFlyer)
       Post #: 55

RE: Seriously now, can it take off or not? What do ... - 12/9/2005 11:16:17 PM   
MinnFlyer



Posts: 19374
Joined: 4/22/2002
From: Willmar, MN, USA
Status: offline 		Only, like in this case, when it's a sure thing

_____________________________

Mike B.
AMA# 42400 www.gettingairborne.com

"Those are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others." - Groucho Marx

(in reply to mr_matt)
       Post #: 56

RE: Seriously now, can it take off or not? What do ... - 12/10/2005 12:01:51 AM   
Craig-RCU



Posts: 466
Joined: 1/10/2002
From: minneapolis, MN, USA
Status: offline 		I hope you guys arn't really serious about betting such a lage sum of money. I would hate to see somebody get taken advantage to the tune of 10 grand. That's just not right. I mean, we're hear to have fun and learn and not bilk eachother out of major coinage. I'm sure that nobody would feel good about that win or loose. Can I convince you guys to reduce that sum to a more reasonable level? How about 10 USD instead?

(in reply to MinnFlyer)
       Post #: 57

RE: Seriously now, can it take off or not? What do ... - 12/11/2005 8:19:25 PM   
dick Hanson



Posts: 9928
Joined: 12/12/2001
From: slc, UT, USA
Status: offline 		Once the horse has been beaten to death - at least bury him

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Libby

(in reply to Craig-RCU)
       Post #: 58

RE: Seriously now, can it take off or not? What do ... - 12/11/2005 9:24:46 PM   
britbrat


 

Posts: 3299
Joined: 6/15/2004
From: Deep River, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Considering that it was a 10 cent question -- that would be more appropriate.

(in reply to dick Hanson)
       Post #: 59

RE: Seriously now, can it take off or not? What do ... - 12/11/2005 9:39:27 PM   
MinnFlyer



Posts: 19374
Joined: 4/22/2002
From: Willmar, MN, USA
Status: offline 		Oh hell, I wouldn't really take his money, it was too easy

_____________________________

Mike B.
AMA# 42400 www.gettingairborne.com

"Those are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others." - Groucho Marx

(in reply to britbrat)
       Post #: 60

RE: Seriously now, can it take off or not? What do ... - 12/12/2005 6:49:56 AM   
Craig-RCU



Posts: 466
Joined: 1/10/2002
From: minneapolis, MN, USA
Status: offline 		Having known the pain of making a bad bet myself, I asked for the bet to be reduced to lessen the the blow of hurt pride to whomever has made a bad bet here. The one who can back down from a percieved sure-thing to spare someone undue pain and hardship is a hero in my opinion.
On this winding road that we call life, there are many horizons that we must traverse to acheive self-knowledge. Entering into a bad bet is really a lesson about self-control. A lesson that I had to learn more than once. Most recently, I guess that I wanted to impress the new guys at work with my accute reasoning abilities and trap-like memory. So I bet them a princly some of a meal fit for a king at the fine dining establishment of Mac and Don's supper club (5 bucks) that they could not rehang a door that I had deemed unhangable because I had tried, and discovered that the hinges on the door were mounted wrong. While both of them knew I was making a foolish bet only one accepted the bet. I knew in the back of my mind somewhere that they themselves must have been the ones to take the door down in the first place, but my pride in my mechanical know-how over-rode that. It turned out the original carpenter had hung the door by using the hinges incorrectly but made it work anyway. So, I lost the bet and felt like the fool that I was for letting pride get in the way of understanding the obvious. It ruined any impression that I was trying to make but it ruined the relationship more between me and the one who accepted the bet because I felt that he did not look out for me like a friend would. Whereas, after talking to the one that didn't take the bet, I found out that he was very torn about whether of or not to step in but didn't because the bet was so small. He was looking out for me like a friend would. So I ask you two to swallow pride and look out for eachother like a friend would also to avoid any hard feelings.

< Message edited by Craig-RCU -- 12/12/2005 1:06:36 PM >

(in reply to MinnFlyer)
       Post #: 61

RE: Seriously now, can it take off or not? What do ... - 12/12/2005 12:41:41 PM   
dick Hanson



Posts: 9928
Joined: 12/12/2001
From: slc, UT, USA
Status: offline 		My uncle Sigmund mentioned similar studies ----

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       Post #: 62

RE: Seriously now, can it take off or not? What do y... - 12/12/2005 3:53:23 PM   
w_benjamin


 

Posts: 81
Joined: 12/12/2005
From: , NH, USA
Status: offline 		actually, it won't fly.

(in reply to MinnFlyer)
       Post #: 63

RE: Seriously now, can it take off or not? What do ... - 12/12/2005 4:28:32 PM   
dick Hanson



Posts: 9928
Joined: 12/12/2001
From: slc, UT, USA
Status: offline 		Uncle Siggy also discussed failure to accept reality--

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