Additives to make engines start easier ??

Additives to make engines start easier ??
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All Forums >> Glow Engines, Gas Engines, Fuel & Mfg Support Forums >> RC Fuels >> Additives to make engines start easier ??

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Additives to make engines start easier ?? - 12/8/2005 12:05:50 PM

Posts: 482
Joined: 4/17/2004
From: Campbelltown, AUSTRALIA
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Just wanted to know if there is ANY additives to make nitro engines start easier (not really for cold weathers sake) but for any time of the year. I've heard people talk about using Lighter Fluid and Gasoline (petrol) for easier starting for nitro engines, but does this actually work. I can really benefit from these additives, as I am getting frustrated and tired of trying and trying to get my engiens to start. I am a advanced user when it comes to engines, so its not the tuning. But I just want them to start first time, every time. Or ATLEAST! hear a quick tick or some sort of combustion sound, before it fully starts.

It well generally take me 5-10mins just to get my engine(s) to start. And this is in 35 degree heat (Summer here in Australia). There should be no problems in starting, so what can I do!

Cheers!

RE: Additives to make engines start easier ?? - 12/8/2005 2:08:18 PM

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From: Adelaide, AUSTRALIA
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It's going to be 38 here in Adelaide on Sunday (100 for the unmetricified

). But the first thing needed for a fast start is a plug that's glowing just right. I use a power panel and set each plug individually because there can be a huge difference in the power different plugs can draw. Next thing is getting the right amount of prime (sorry if it seems I'm telling you how to suck eggs) and then spreading it up into the cylinder. With the plug connected you should feel a bump when you turn the prop over slowly which is the engine telling you it's ready to start. They should start with one flick if everything is perfect.

You shouldn't need any additives, I don't even use nitro, but one that's just about guaranteed to give an instant start if you're desperate is ether. How fresh is your fuel?

(in reply to hitman45)

RE: Additives to make engines start easier ?? - 12/8/2005 5:51:15 PM

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From: Austin, TX, USA
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Sounds like a battery/glow plug problem. If your glowplug is not lighting up at least orange-yellow, that's your problem. It is is possible to have a glowplug so hot the engine won't start, but just backfire. but this is not the usual problem. If you fool with an an engine a while and cannot get it to where it reliably starts within three flips, something is wrong. You are not getting fire, or not getting fuel, or don't have compression, one or all.

(in reply to downunder)

RE: Additives to make engines start easier ?? - 12/8/2005 11:29:01 PM

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From: Campbelltown, AUSTRALIA
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Yeah thats true. I think it might be time to change my plugs, as I have had them for a long time. But every time I check to see if they DO glow...they show up as a bright orange/yellow. So Im guessing they are still fine. Apart from the plugs, my fuel is fresh as a daisy because I just bought some yesterday. I did hear a couple of 'fires' from the engine, but just wouldnt stay running. It conked out and then when I tried to restart, the engine just wouldnt want to and I ended up giving up cause it was REALLY making me angry.

Im going to give them another try soon today anyways. Mind you I havnt run these engines in about 3-4months now. So maybe thats whats causing them not to start?. Like I said, I know my engines and usually dont have any problems. I only buy reliable engines, not cheap stuff.

(in reply to Jim Thomerson)

RE: Additives to make engines start easier ?? - 12/8/2005 11:49:48 PM

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From: Austin, TX, USA
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OK, you have fire. So it is fuel or compression. I wonder if your fuel system has clogged itself over time. You might take your carb all apart and see if anything is wrong, clogged hole, broken or shrunken O-ring, whatever. If you are running a ringed engine, the ring may be stuck in the piston and not expanding as it should.

(in reply to hitman45)

RE: Additives to make engines start easier ?? - 12/9/2005 2:47:26 AM

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From: Adelaide, AUSTRALIA
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Orange-yellow glow is usually about right but not always. Last weekend my son and I were trying to start his 1.08 and it was doing much the same as yours seems to be. He got tired so I took over and still no go so I wound up the plug heat and off it went in a couple of flicks. If yours will start and run on a prime but not continue then I'd definitely do what Jim suggested. It's strange that none of your engines will start though. Are you using a seperate glow ignitor or one that uses the same battery as an electric starter? With a low starter battery, when you use the starter it can draw too much power and drop the glow power.

(in reply to Jim Thomerson)

RE: Additives to make engines start easier ?? - 12/13/2005 10:45:31 PM

MJD

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From: Orangeville, ON, CANADA
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Just because a plug glows does not mean it is fine, however as long as you have power connected it is less of an issue compared to once the glow driver is disconnected. But, remember that plugs do deteriorate - they function by catalytic action on the methanol, and if the plug element is covered with deposits running may be erratic, however the plugs will still glow happily with power applied. One obvious clue is, do your motors slow down when you remove glow heat? If so toss the plug, if it is old. If it is new, then the heat range is off, but let's not consider that for the moment, as you should still get the motor to start fine with power connected. When in doubt, try a new plug. Bad plugs can manifest themselves in mysterious ways.

As downunder suggests, a low panel battery or miserable connections can cause grief too - One sure-fire way I know my battery is getting down when my motors will not fire until I take my finger off the starter switch!

As to not running your engines for 3-4 months, that doesn't matter unless you've let fuel congeal in the carb or a bunch of rust build up in the engine from not clearing it out and popping in some after run oil. My engines sit all winter, and when I fuel them up and prime them in spring, off they go.

MJD

(in reply to hitman45)

RE: Additives to make engines start easier ?? - 12/14/2005 1:23:41 AM

RTD

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From: Melbourne, AUSTRALIA
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I had read and heard all about the Moki's great attributes in terms of easy starting and fantastic power. Well, when I attempted the well documented starting procedure on my new Moki 180 I was less than impressed. I wouldn't get any "bump" when turning it over and hence starting it was real challenge. My misguided method only served to develop muscles in my right forearm! After much priming, flipping (backwards and forwards), and cursing I decided to take out my frustrations on the Moki glow plug and turn up the heat to near 3.5 or 4 amps. It fired immediately on the next backflip and has been doing it ever since. Take Downunder's advice and experiment with the amount of priming and increasing the glow heat until you find the "sweet spot". Good luck.

(in reply to MJD)

RE: Additives to make engines start easier ?? - 12/17/2005 1:26:29 AM

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From: Mount Pleasant, TX, USA
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A while back I ran a couple of engines (sig fuel). I figured I would be back at it in a few days so when I was done I wrapped each engine in a cloth rag to protect them and put them away. They sat for a lot longer that I anticipated. When I got finally back to them the fuel appeared to have become concrete. The needles were stuck tight and fuel lines and passages were clogged with sticky goo.
I agree with previous suggestion to check fuel system including tank.

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RE: Additives to make engines start easier ?? - 12/19/2005 4:52:12 PM

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From: angus, ON, CANADA
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I start mine at -10 cesius no problem using only 15% feul I just use hot glow plugs

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RE: Additives to make engines start easier ?? - 1/6/2006 5:14:41 AM

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From: STATESBORO, GA, USA
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BTW "nitro engine" is a misnomer. "Glow engine" is more accurate.

jess

(in reply to krazycdn)

RE: Additives to make engines start easier ?? - 1/8/2006 3:28:04 AM

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From: Frenchtown, NJ, USA
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The seperate car battery for cranking and the smaller one for a box mounted, ajustable current plug driver is great.
Since I went to that 20 years ago, NO, hard to start or find the problems.
Get a toolbox mounted unit that has a current meter. Tells you instantly if a plug is going or gone.

(in reply to jessiej)

RE: Additives to make engines start easier ?? - 1/22/2006 12:39:06 PM

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From: Martinsville, IN, USA
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Some engine and plane combos just don't prime that well sticking finger over carb or muffler. If you put fuel in a small squeeze container . Open carb throttle and squirt some fuel into carb throat you now have the quickest prime you can get. When engine fires up it will suck fuel into line. Inverted engines are a little tuff this way.

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RE: Additives to make engines start easier ?? - 1/23/2006 7:38:12 AM

XJet

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Joined: 3/31/2003
From: Tokoroa, NEW ZEALAND
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If people are having problems starting their engines then they probably either don't understand the factors involved or don't have very good engines.

All of my *good* engines start first-flick, every time -- even after months of inactivity -- but each different make/model requires slightly different technique.

My TT46Pros are hand-started in one flick by following this procedure:

1. leaving the glo-clip off, open the throttle to full.
2. choke the engine until fuel can be seen just reaching the carby.
3. choke another three turns -- removing finger at TDC so as not to blow air back down the line.
4. give a couple of quick flicks to ensure some fuel is pushed into the cylinder and priming the bore
5. move the throttle to idle
6. attach the glow clip
6. flick backwards once (or, if you're *not* using an APC prop you can flick in the correct direction -- those APCs are *SHARP* so its safer to flick them backwards!

Voila, the engine is running.

Sometimes (very rarely) it will start running backwards -- in which case you can almost always get it to reverse and run the right way by blipping the throttle up and down.

Most of my other *good* engines start with a variation on those steps -- some nee dmore choking, some need less. Some need more flicks without the plug lead to prime the bore and get fuel from the crankcase into the cylinder before connecting the glow lead. My little Cox 049s require a prime through the ports, etc.

But, get to know your engine, understand the theory and physics of how a modern 2 or 4-cycle engine works and starting should never be a problem.

Of course I assume you've got a good plug, healthy glow battery, fresh fuel and sound tank/plumbing as well.

I bought an electric starter but only ever need use it on my *bad* engines. Hell, even my crappy piece of scrap SK56 will start first-flick.

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RE: Additives to make engines start easier ?? - 2/1/2006 3:47:35 PM

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From: Acworth, GA, USA
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quote:

6. flick backwards once (or, if you're *not* using an APC prop you can flick in the correct direction -- those APCs are *SHARP* so its safer to flick them backwards!

You are cruising for a brusing! Or cut. You are going to eventually forget you have an APC prop, or you will forget and hand prop a larger engine someday. Get in the habit of using a chicken stick now!

(in reply to XJet)

RE: Additives to make engines start easier ?? - 2/2/2006 2:38:41 AM

B.L.E.

Posts: 1262
Joined: 8/27/2005
From: Austin, TX, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot

quote:

6. flick backwards once (or, if you're *not* using an APC prop you can flick in the correct direction -- those APCs are *SHARP* so its safer to flick them backwards!

You are cruising for a brusing! Or cut. You are going to eventually forget you have an APC prop, or you will forget and hand prop a larger engine someday. Get in the habit of using a chicken stick now!

I use the backwards flip a lot, particularly on 4-stroke engines, but I don't grab the prop blades, I grab the spinner instead, or the center of the prop on planes that don't have a spinner. Even APC props aren't sharp there.

(in reply to Sport_Pilot)