RE: Why isn't the SuperTigre 2300 a popular engine??  
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RE: Why isn't the SuperTigre 2300 a popular engine?? - 1/11/2008 2:48:09 PM   
blw



Posts: 4454
Joined: 3/15/2004
From: Auburn, AL, USA
Status: offline 		How do you like your Sukhoi? Is it the kit or ARF?

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       Post #: 26

RE: Why isn't the SuperTigre 2300 a popular engine?? - 1/11/2008 11:11:24 PM   
Ed Cregger



Posts: 7484
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Ringgold, GA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AJF--2

I have been in RC for quite a while, and in Giant Scale (with gas engines) for the last few years. I have owned a number of SuperTigre glow engines (in the 40-90 range) and have picked up this 2300 recently. It seems that Moki, OS, and Webra get the most discussion. Also planes in the classifieds with this engine are priced lower.

I know it is a ringed engine and will probably not produce stunning power. But what is the problem that they are not as popular? Thanks in advance-- all comments welcome! (not going to get mad if you talk bad about my engine)



--------------


I think that the G2300 Tigre is quite popular.

There was the time when the last of the Italian G2300 engines were fitted with the wrong carb barrel, throwing the midrange off and causing endless headaches. Immediately after this they moved to China, with the resultant lag in production.

With the last of the Italian G2300 engines being fitted with the wrong carb barrel (one for the G4500 used instead), folks that bought the new Chinese version (with the correct carb barrelinstalled) automatically thought that their carb was bad, when, in fact, all that was needed was more break-in time. This is an old world engine design, with old world break-in necessities that cannot be avoided. The engine will not run right until it is broken-in - period.

Frankly, the G2300 and the GS40 are two of the best engine buys in the hobby. But the buyer must be made aware of the fact that they will have to burn some fuel before the engines come up to spec. Even so, some of these engines run great right out of the box and yet others need a gallon or two of fuel ran through them before reaching their "sweet" spots.

As others mentioned, the now odd displacement of 1.40 puts them at a disadvantage when competing with the OS 1.60FX. However, to most of us, that point is insignificant if the G2300 is used in 1.20 sized models.


Ed Cregger


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Artisan

"Flying models since the Fifties - I'll get the hang of this yet!!!"

(in reply to AJF--2)
       Post #: 27

RE: Why isn't the SuperTigre 2300 a popular engine?? - 1/12/2008 12:45:56 AM   
bps



Posts: 655
Joined: 10/16/2002
From: Indianapolis, IN, USA
Status: offline 		I have purchased a G2300 to install in my Sig Clip Wing Cub 1/4 scale. Choice was between OS and Magnum 4s 1.2. Decided to spend 1/2 the money and go with the ST. Built my own muffler to fit totaly inside the cowl and I am looking forward to working on breaking in the motor in the spring.




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JEB

(in reply to Ed Cregger)
       Post #: 28

RE: Why isn't the SuperTigre 2300 a popular engine?? - 1/13/2008 4:25:57 AM   
TCrafty



Posts: 437
Joined: 2/25/2006
From: Lakeland, FL, USA
Status: offline 		blw,

I have an old Goldberg Sukhoi. It's the one with the landing gear mounted to the wing. Other than the ABS cowling going south and the landing gear plopping down (when it was sitting in the pits mind you!) it's been a great plane. I was fueling up one of my other planes a while back and heard a "thunk". Looked up at my Sukhoi and it was planted flat to the ground. Probably broke loose on the last landing and just gave way while in the pits. Taxi'd all the way back to the pits though.

Just had my plane out today and put a few more flights on it. again, that SuperTigre ran fine. I leaned it out just a tad on the low end since I can feel that it's starting to break in nicely. 1/16th of a turn at a time.

I also agree with boex, that Type F plug does wonders for my STs. Brace yourselves but, I actually talked to someone today about selling my Saito 180! These SuperTigres pull just the same, use less fuel and, they're smoother on the airframe. That should get the Saito-ites riled up.



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       Post #: 29

RE: Why isn't the SuperTigre 2300 a popular engine?? - 1/13/2008 2:28:45 PM   
Hobbsy



Posts: 10426
Joined: 12/2/2001
From: Colonial Beach, VA, USA
Status: offline 		Hopefully you'll sell it to someone who knows how to set the needles to make it smooth and sip fuel.

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(in reply to TCrafty)
       Post #: 30

RE: Why isn't the SuperTigre 2300 a popular engine?? - 1/13/2008 3:15:35 PM   
TCrafty



Posts: 437
Joined: 2/25/2006
From: Lakeland, FL, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hobbsy

Hopefully you'll sell it to someone who knows how to set the needles to make it smooth and sip fuel.



EGAD!!!!!

Could it be that I can tune a SuperTigre happily but can't a Saito!!!! I'm a little confused as to what I should deduct from such a situation. Has a situation such as this ever happened before? Read some of these posts and you'd think that SuperTigre tuning is a black art while Saitos run well right out of the box!

Truthfully, it may be a little rich on the low end but not nearly as bad as some that I've seen. I flew it yesterday with my SuperTigre and someone commented that they didn't think that it was rich at all. I don't have a thermometer so I don't know exactly what the temps are but I do know that it does get warmer than my other Saitos so I'd be leery of leaning it out more. Possibly, it could be that the low end is rich and I adjusted the top end to compensate but, I can check that out the next time I pull the cowling. For now, it flies fine and doesn't dead stick.

Now, back to the SuperTigres!


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       Post #: 31

RE: Why isn't the SuperTigre 2300 a popular engine?? - 1/13/2008 3:33:58 PM   
Hobbsy



Posts: 10426
Joined: 12/2/2001
From: Colonial Beach, VA, USA
Status: offline 		T, since the needles effect each other, set the HS needle at absolute peak before setting the LS needle, it will help. Then go back to your safe, rich HS setting.

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       Post #: 32

RE: Why isn't the SuperTigre 2300 a popular engine?? - 1/13/2008 9:53:30 PM   
blw



Posts: 4454
Joined: 3/15/2004
From: Auburn, AL, USA
Status: offline 		TCrafty- not really. I have the revision D kit and I'm putting a Saito 170R3 radial on it. 8^)

From what I can tell, this kit has been around for about 14 years with modifications to the cowl/belly pans, landing gear, and wing design. The good news is that I have the better gear design and newer wing. The bad news is the ABS cowl and belly pan.

My opinion is that you will learn nothing by trying to measure temps on your Saito. Tune it like Hobbsy said and it should be sipping fuel.

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The ultimate responsibility of pilots is to fulfill the dreams of the countless millions who can only stare skyward...and wish.

(in reply to Hobbsy)
       Post #: 33

RE: Why isn't the SuperTigre 2300 a popular engine?? - 1/14/2008 12:59:02 AM   
TCrafty



Posts: 437
Joined: 2/25/2006
From: Lakeland, FL, USA
Status: offline 		THAT is going to sound GREAT blw!!!!

One of these days, I would like to have a twin or triple engine. I've got a few years to build up to one so there's no rush but,,,

I figure that I'll try Hobbsy's tuning method the next time i've got the plane out to the field.

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RE: Why isn't the SuperTigre 2300 a popular engine?? - 1/14/2008 8:00:17 AM   
Ed Cregger



Posts: 7484
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Ringgold, GA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bps

I have purchased a G2300 to install in my Sig Clip Wing Cub 1/4 scale. Choice was between OS and Magnum 4s 1.2. Decided to spend 1/2 the money and go with the ST. Built my own muffler to fit totaly inside the cowl and I am looking forward to working on breaking in the motor in the spring.



----------------


I love four-strokes, but the G2300 makes a satisfying growl when throttled back and does represent one heck of a terrific value. Especially once past the break-in period. Just be patient, if you haven't broken in the engine as yet. It will morph into a truly wonderful engine with sufficient running.


Ed Cregger


Corrected spelling.


< Message edited by Ed Cregger -- 1/14/2008 8:03:46 AM >


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RE: Why isn't the SuperTigre 2300 a popular engine?? - 1/14/2008 8:02:46 AM   
Ed Cregger



Posts: 7484
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Ringgold, GA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: blw

TCrafty- not really. I have the revision D kit and I'm putting a Saito 170R3 radial on it. 8^)

From what I can tell, this kit has been around for about 14 years with modifications to the cowl/belly pans, landing gear, and wing design. The good news is that I have the better gear design and newer wing. The bad news is the ABS cowl and belly pan.

My opinion is that you will learn nothing by trying to measure temps on your Saito. Tune it like Hobbsy said and it should be sipping fuel.



--------------


I just returned from Keleo Creations' website where I placed an order by email for a ring manifold for my Saito R3. Gonna slap that sucka in my Clipped Wing Monocoupe (Pacific Aero) and enjoy the sound.


Ed Cregger


*Not my night for correct spelling <G>

< Message edited by Ed Cregger -- 1/14/2008 8:05:04 AM >


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Artisan

"Flying models since the Fifties - I'll get the hang of this yet!!!"

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       Post #: 36

RE: Why isn't the SuperTigre 2300 a popular engine?? - 1/15/2008 7:30:47 AM   
the Wasp


 

Posts: 808
Joined: 9/29/2003
From: Rutland, VT, USA
Status: offline 		ST 2300 engines,,

I have talked to an engine specialist that works for a snowmobile company (sorry I will say no names), this guy has been flying RC for over 20 years and he has an engineering degree in piston powered engines, and he knows the large ST engines well,,

he said many tuning problems with these large ST engine are related to using to much oil,, these engines much like a gasser engine don't need 16 or 18% oil, yet 16% is what most people run in them,,

sorry, it's been a while and I don't remember how much oil he said to use,, but if you think about it these engines are very much like a ringed gasser engine, about the only differences is the fuel, and guys run those gasser motors down to 80 to 1 and 100 to 1,,

if I had to guess I would say he said to use 7% to 9% oil because my Super Tartan uses only 5% castor only..

you can buy my 22cc Super Tartan for only $220 shipped, includes radial mount, muffler and extra carb, never started..

Jim

(in reply to boex)
       Post #: 37

RE: Why isn't the SuperTigre 2300 a popular engine?? - 1/15/2008 7:41:09 AM   
Ed Cregger



Posts: 7484
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Ringgold, GA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: the Wasp

ST 2300 engines,,

I have talked to an engine specialist that works for a snowmobile company (sorry I will say no names), this guy has been flying RC for over 20 years and he has an engineering degree in piston powered engines, and he knows the large ST engines well,,

he said many tuning problems with these large ST engine are related to using to much oil,, these engines much like a gasser engine don't need 16 or 18% oil, yet 16% is what most people run in them,,

sorry, it's been a while and I don't remember how much oil he said to use,, but if you think about it these engines are very much like a ringed gasser engine, about the only differences is the fuel, and guys run those gasser motors down to 80 to 1 and 100 to 1,,

if I had to guess I would say he said to use 7% to 9% oil because my Super Tartan uses only 5% castor only..

you can buy my 22cc Super Tartan for only $220 shipped, includes radial mount, muffler and extra carb, never started..

Jim



--------------


They may look a bit like gassers, but they don't have needle bearings in the appropriate places (con rod) like a gasser. That is why you can't run normal gasser oil ratios in the big Tigres without damaging them.


Ed Cregger



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Artisan

"Flying models since the Fifties - I'll get the hang of this yet!!!"

(in reply to the Wasp)
       Post #: 38

RE: Why isn't the SuperTigre 2300 a popular engine?? - 1/15/2008 8:04:19 AM   
the Wasp


 

Posts: 808
Joined: 9/29/2003
From: Rutland, VT, USA
Status: offline 		yes true, and 7 to 9% would be more than 100 to 1


like I said, if I had to guess, he may have said more, but I do remember he said 16% was to much..
Jim

< Message edited by the Wasp -- 1/15/2008 8:12:42 AM >

(in reply to Ed Cregger)
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