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RE: Black Magic v2 builder's thread! *Updated* - 7/5/2006 7:23 PM

handglider

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HI Ian,

I've only installed the rear wing adjuster as I am also thinking about just using a nylon bolt thru the forward position. since this is an after thought I am going to have to epoxy in a nylon threaded insert at the root. It would be easier than having to add that little ply plate and drilling/tapping etc...

I haven't discussed the pros and cons with Mike yet about this, I am sure he will give his opinion.... Mike?

I've got a buys 3 days at my "real" job coming up - so she will be sitting pretty on much bench - I like to let the dust settle a bit anyhow.

I've weighed everything going into the airframe and I should be right under 9 lbs going into finish..... So I am hoping that I will finish out at under 10 lbs...

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RE: Black Magic v2 builder's thread! *Updated* - 7/5/2006 7:36 PM

PatternPilot

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Mike,

Looks real good, I was wondering how you did the mount for the electric... It just sparked some idea's... Oh no

see you in a few weeks at the NATS.. going to Lamar's to get some time in on the Aggressor and practice..

scott

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RE: Black Magic v2 builder's thread! *Updated* - 7/7/2006 1:02 PM

UK_Flyer

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Carbon formers

Arrived this morning, I have also managed to get 2 full sets made from balsa and ply. The carbon ones are very very nice something that supprised me that in there 1.5mm thinckness was the stiffness, there is extremely little flex which can only be a good ting. The weight of them total is 170g. Where they expensive YES, ideally they would of been 2mm but this would of pushed £90 ($170) but in 1.5mm they are were £55 including shipping & vat ($100).

Initially F1 looks welll out of scale but the others look ok, these were taken from Hangliders drawings and i'm supprised there was an issue but i'll get it re-made.

Here's some piccies :-

[image][/image]

< Message edited by UK_Flyer -- 7/8/2006 1:48 AM >

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RE: Black Magic v2 builder's thread! *Updated* - 7/8/2006 1:47 AM

UK_Flyer

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I have 3 sets of formers now and only 2 sets of wings . . . ummmm . . .. . . . doh !

These things are perfect, i've measured them and matched them up with the balsa/ply versions and they are exact .. i'm so happy.

Firewall - probably the biggest plus, with the 2mm ply F1 bonded to the back of the carbon F1 it is only 3.5mm in thickness and is easily strong enough to mount the engine to, god knows how light it is but as i said the total was only 170gm.

I am taking orders if anybody wants some

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RE: Black Magic v2 builder's thread! *Updated* - 7/8/2006 8:10 AM

MHester

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quote:

ORIGINAL: UK_Flyer

I am taking orders if anybody wants some

Hmmm.....I'm not really sure how I feel about that yet.......I better sleep on it. My first reaction is "cool", but my second one is begging for radio interferance. My third one.....well it's been a long week. I need rest.

-M

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RE: Black Magic v2 builder's thread! *Updated* - 7/8/2006 8:12 AM

MHester

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BTW they do look really cool

-Mike

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RE: Black Magic v2 builder's thread! *Updated* - 7/8/2006 10:19 AM

f3a05

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Incidentally, Mr. Hester, Why are there so many formers between the back of the wing and the tail?
Just curious, because I've made a few 2M O/Ds with quite similar fus. construction(balsa sides,corner longerons(1/2 triangular),foam top and bottom decks.)
I do strengthen the inside of the balsa sides with 60 gram kevlar/epoxy, but the only formers are two carbon/blue foam ones at the back of the wing seat and in front of the tail.

[URL=http://imageshack.us]

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RE: Black Magic v2 builder's thread! *Updated* - 7/8/2006 2:06 PM

UK_Flyer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MHester

quote:

ORIGINAL: UK_Flyer

I am taking orders if anybody wants some

Hmmm.....I'm not really sure how I feel about that yet.......I better sleep on it. My first reaction is "cool", but my second one is begging for radio interferance. My third one.....well it's been a long week. I need rest.

-M

I'm not in it for the profit, there at cost price, i've just used them before so already have a good relationship. If you dont want me to thats cool

What might also be worth considering is the following. :-

1. The DEPS system could be drilled straight into the formers and would not require any building, therefore no extra parts or weight,

2. Same with the aerial tube, A whole could be drilled down through each of the formers and would only need one dab of epoxy to hold in place.

Interferance, I had actually considered using a whip antenna like the jet boys, but even if i do run inside i've see people use carbon tubes to run the aerial in.

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RE: Black Magic v2 builder's thread! *Updated* - 7/8/2006 2:16 PM

troyhm

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Hi Uk Flyer

If its ok to ask, where did you get then produced or did you do them yourself. I have two other projects I am working on in cad format already and would loved some carbon fiber pieces made for them. Do you know if they can do honeycomb sandwhiched between fiberglass as well ? I havent found the best way to cut this stuff yet and its very strong and 1\10 the cost of carbon fiber. I know this is a little off subject

Thanks

Troy

< Message edited by troyhm -- 7/8/2006 6:19 PM >

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RE: Black Magic v2 builder's thread! *Updated* - 7/8/2006 6:28 PM

grcourtney

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MR. HEASTER!

gary

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RE: Black Magic v2 builder's thread! *Updated* - 7/8/2006 7:35 PM

MHester

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After sleeping on it (I can't think clearly when I'm that tired) I'd say have at it, they do look cool. Just understand that that's a lot of carbon in the tail area, and they do weigh a bit more than the wood formers. I do like the F1 and F2 very much, as well as the partial top formers. The rest I think are overkill, and add possibly too much weight and carbon in the tail.

As for why I use so many....."just because".

Because personally, I can make a stiffer, lighter rear section using this method than with a laminate, without risking stress failures. It also supports the sides very well all the way down, and it absorbs the resonant vibration of certain engines pretty well. That being said, it could get away with a couple less, but it just works this way.

Bolts instead of front adjusters: Suit yourself. That's just personal taste really. I like to have adjusters in the front and rear, and pin my tubes at the ends of the tube through a hard point in the wing. There is so little stress on that pin, it's ridiculous. It's just the way I do it and it works for me. It also allows me to just slide the wing panels on, tighten ONE screw and I'm ready to go. Don't even have to remove the canopy.

-Mike

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RE: Black Magic v2 builder's thread! *Updated* - 7/8/2006 7:39 PM

MHester

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quote:

ORIGINAL: f3a05

BTW, great looking plane!

-Mike

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RE: Black Magic v2 builder's thread! *Updated* - 7/9/2006 12:29 AM

handglider

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Mike,

yea, I think I am going to stay with the front adjusters. I was thinking I could also use one of my laser to align the hole at the end of the tube... was worrying a little about that.

Ian, please give use some weights for the individual formers, I would like to compare them to the balsa weights.

Been taking a little break for building today, just purchased a nice used full size van today, also I have been designing a trim scheme for my plane, I'll post some more drawings when I get a chance.

cheers, dean

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RE: Black Magic v2 builder's thread! *Updated* - 7/10/2006 12:48 PM

UK_Flyer

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Carbon Former Weights,

This one supprised me a bit but i had always intended on attacking them with a hole drill anyway as there's still more than enough stiffness even so i dont think it will reduce to the same extent.

I am also considering dropping 2 formers probably F8 & F6,

Part Carbon Balsa

F1 36g 16g
F2 41g 17g
F3 28g 6g
F4 17g 4g
F5 16g 4g
F6 12g 3g
F7 10g 3g
F8 8g 0g
F9 7g 0g

Total 175g 53g

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RE: Black Magic v2 builder's thread! *Updated* - 7/10/2006 10:11 PM

handglider

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Hi Ian,

I think those are some of the coolest Black Magic parts I've seen to date. All that carbon would dress up the plane big time. I was also suprised at how much heavier the carbon formers are. I have only built one complete airframe but I have framed up 3 fuselages and I would suggest using all the formers and using contest balsa from f4- f9. The fuse that I just built is very strong, you would knock someone cold if you hit them over the head with it : ) I mean it, there is a lot of wood in this thing and yet it is very light and strong.

IMHO - Since the balsa formers are so light you should use them all, also if you are running a 4C do the 1/4 stick cross bracing like I did in previous posts... It's still lighter than just running those carbon formers.

So at this point I am wondering the advantages of the carbon formers. considering the weight of f4- f9 in balsa is only 14 grams.

The former set that I used in my build was at 112 g total and that is with a 3/16" 5ply F1 - 1/8" 5 ply f2 - I used heavy 1/8 wood for f3-f5 and super light contest wood for f6-f9.....

man that still floors me that the carbon set is so heavy, what is the make up of the carbon in these formers??

The other thing about the carbon formers is that you will have to use epoxy to glue these in, that will add a lot more weight too. Compared to just CAing the balsa formers in....

Plus I think a balsa to balsa CA joint (former to fuse side) might be stonger and less stressfull to the balsa fuse side......

these are just my thoughts so, chime in ya'll....

But man, those carbon formers look awesome, I am going to layup some light balsa formers with 2oz carbon cloth and compare weights.

Balsa - the magicial wood : )

cheers, dean

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RE: Black Magic v2 builder's thread! *Updated* - 7/11/2006 12:31 AM

BrianB

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Just cover the balsa formers with carbon fiber colored monocoat, just the ones and sides you can see. BTW, looking good dean, I want to see it fly in Jacksonville.

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RE: Black Magic v2 builder's thread! *Updated* - 7/11/2006 2:53 AM

handglider

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Hi Brian,

thanks man !! I've been having a good time building her too.. Just ordered all my painting equipment and I will be starting the sanding and finishing real soon, I am hoping to fly it at the Huntsville, Jacksonville and Districts.... we will see, I've got lots of work still....

Yea I am looking forward to the Jacksonville meet, have heard great things about it from Jim and Mike, can't wait - I'll be there !!!

Dean

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RE: Black Magic v2 builder's thread! *Updated* - 7/12/2006 5:32 AM

handglider

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Hi All,

A few more detail pics of my build. The fuselage is amazing at 2 lbs 12.5 oz.

enjoy!

Dean

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RE: Black Magic v2 builder's thread! *Updated* - 7/12/2006 7:27 PM

UK_Flyer

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Well, here's where i've got to. One thing i was supprised at is that to get to this point was not hard. I'm not far away from sticking it on the Jig and gluing, jigs not finished yet, probably becuase i've spent to much time on the below. Wing joint holes were the most time consuming but i've measured with a digital vernier back and front and there spot on.

Still havent skinned my stabs or top and bottom cores, which i think really should be my next step. Jig is nearly finished but i'm waiting on the table now, Unfortunatly i'm not lucky enough to have a massive basement like you US guys, i'll show you pics when i'm its done but i'm in a little 1 car garage with all the spiders

Question 1. in roughly putting together the below i noticed there could be some room for the stab tube holes to move and then not be straight. What i'm toying with the idea of doing is making 2 ply jigs to hang of the end of the stab tube then i can guarantee the tube is level in the fuselage before gluing, then glue all at the same time.

Pictures dont do it justice, i've already had this on a laser sight, on beam mode i can spread the beam along the top thats how flat it is. On its cross mode i can see the wing tubes are level and a good sign is there already aligned even.

Images are linked, for some reason it wont attach - just errors

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v476/TewT/Black%20Magic/IMAG0005-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v476/TewT/Black%20Magic/IMAG0004-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v476/TewT/Black%20Magic/IMAG0002.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v476/TewT/Black%20Magic/IMAG0001-1.jpg

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Post #: 444

RE: Black Magic v2 builder's thread! *Updated* - 7/12/2006 7:35 PM

MHester

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Those pics show why it's vital to have a jig for that fuse

Great work, except for the tail block (I'm being picky LOL)

The wood work looks superb, keep pressing I can't wait to see it framed and finished!

As for the stab tubes, if you know your stab holes in your halves are perfectly straight, then that's a good method. I like to actually mount the halves and glue the center in with the stabs supported in position.

You can think yourself to death with this plane, and in the end you'll think "Gee that was easy". There are some steps that are a PITA, but most of it is very easy, fast and straight forward. It's basically a very square box with rounded cores and composites attached.

Now I have to finish packing for the Nats....

-Mike

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RE: Black Magic v2 builder's thread! *Updated* - 7/12/2006 8:03 PM

mmattockx

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Has anyone built a gas powered version yet? I keep looking at the Brillelli 40 and the Black Magic and thinking, "hmmm". It may not make the 5kg limit, but it would be close and I am not looking for a contest plane, just a great flying sport plane to enjoy and improve my skills with. Combined with a great budget gas engine like the Brillelli, and it would be a super economical way to have a 2m pattern plane that flies for pennies per flight...

Mark

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RE: Black Magic v2 builder's thread! *Updated* - 7/12/2006 9:09 PM

UK_Flyer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MHester
Great work, except for the tail block (I'm being picky LOL)

-Mike

Do you know what, i knew you'd pull me up on that.

Trying to recover here that was just a quick block rushed together for alignment, it was'nt even sanded just "carved", i'm working on the other for when the jig work starts. Doing everything in two's at the moment takes its time.

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Post #: 447

RE: Black Magic v2 builder's thread! *Updated* - 7/12/2006 9:23 PM

MHester

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I'm just teasing Ian

-Mike

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RE: Black Magic v2 builder's thread! *Updated* - 7/12/2006 9:52 PM

ExFokkerFlyer

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Mike,

Instead of a full composite model, have you any plans for a glass/carbon fuse with foam wings?

BTW - good luck at the Nats, wish I could go

Tom M.

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RE: Black Magic v2 builder's thread! *Updated* - 7/14/2006 4:06 PM

troyhm

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Handglider

I have sent you a pm. By the way your planes looks great, can wait see it finished

Thanks

Troy

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