CA-260 baby!
12-14-2005, 05:08 PM
#1
CA-260 baby!
I just couldn't wait to start this thread so here goes! It came here right before I left for a business trip, pictures and stories are coming soon!
First off, the plywood crate it comes in will NOT fit in an 8 foot bed truck with the tailgate up, so be prepared! That damn box is 8.5 feet long! That is roughly the size of the plane minus cowling and spinner. Funny enough, with the gear on the plane actually is slightly lower to the ground than my 2.6 Yak, which will make it a lot easier to go through doorways. Overall though, this plane is BIG! The dimenions of it don't do it justice for seeing it in person. The 157 and it's cans always looked big, until I set them in the plane.... My god!
The layup job on this plane is the usual CA goodness. Carbon weave reinforcements are everywhere they should be. The only gripe there is that the weave should be at a 45 instead of at a 90 (relative to the fuse side). Still, incredibly strong and I have no fears of doing some major wall action. Also in this regard, the wing structure is VERY cool, the carbon top and bottom reinforcement, as well as the spar tube reinforcement make it quite permanent. The really neat part is the truss system they have outboard of the spar tube. This wing weighs NOTHING, and is very tough aerodynamically. The skin is typical CA skin, fiberglass foam sandwich. They have the wing setup for 1, 2, or 3 servos in the typical CA gang setup, or through a hatch you can make. Similar to the Yak. Luckily, it employs a typical wingtube, no beams or anything. One position.
The CA website has the manual up now (thank god!) and you can see more there. It states it's similar to the Super Xtra with added refinements but I have no experience with that model so... The amount of prefab is really cool, control arms are in the surfaces, hatch is completely done with screws and all (minus canopy). All the internal parts are literally sand, snap, and glue together. Comes complete with pushrods, phenolic servo arms, all the usual CA stuff. No tailwheel or landing gear stuff, just the legs and wheel pants.
Like I said, it came right before I left. While I'm gone, I'll get some of the other stuff I need (servo arms, fuel tank, etc.).
-----------------DO NOT ATTEMPT THE MODIFICATIONS WE ARE DOING UNLESS YOU ARE AN EXPERIENCED MODELER/BUILDER, OR HAVE THE ASSISTANCE OF SOMEONE WHO IS. Especially at this scale, these things are half scale full size! IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS, PLEASE CONTACT MYSELF, F4YOU, OR DARRINC AND WE WILL HELP YOU AS MUCH AS WE CAN! Believe me, we have been there, and we have done that!----------------------
First off, the plywood crate it comes in will NOT fit in an 8 foot bed truck with the tailgate up, so be prepared! That damn box is 8.5 feet long! That is roughly the size of the plane minus cowling and spinner. Funny enough, with the gear on the plane actually is slightly lower to the ground than my 2.6 Yak, which will make it a lot easier to go through doorways. Overall though, this plane is BIG! The dimenions of it don't do it justice for seeing it in person. The 157 and it's cans always looked big, until I set them in the plane.... My god!
The layup job on this plane is the usual CA goodness. Carbon weave reinforcements are everywhere they should be. The only gripe there is that the weave should be at a 45 instead of at a 90 (relative to the fuse side). Still, incredibly strong and I have no fears of doing some major wall action. Also in this regard, the wing structure is VERY cool, the carbon top and bottom reinforcement, as well as the spar tube reinforcement make it quite permanent. The really neat part is the truss system they have outboard of the spar tube. This wing weighs NOTHING, and is very tough aerodynamically. The skin is typical CA skin, fiberglass foam sandwich. They have the wing setup for 1, 2, or 3 servos in the typical CA gang setup, or through a hatch you can make. Similar to the Yak. Luckily, it employs a typical wingtube, no beams or anything. One position.
The CA website has the manual up now (thank god!) and you can see more there. It states it's similar to the Super Xtra with added refinements but I have no experience with that model so... The amount of prefab is really cool, control arms are in the surfaces, hatch is completely done with screws and all (minus canopy). All the internal parts are literally sand, snap, and glue together. Comes complete with pushrods, phenolic servo arms, all the usual CA stuff. No tailwheel or landing gear stuff, just the legs and wheel pants.
Like I said, it came right before I left. While I'm gone, I'll get some of the other stuff I need (servo arms, fuel tank, etc.).
-----------------DO NOT ATTEMPT THE MODIFICATIONS WE ARE DOING UNLESS YOU ARE AN EXPERIENCED MODELER/BUILDER, OR HAVE THE ASSISTANCE OF SOMEONE WHO IS. Especially at this scale, these things are half scale full size! IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS, PLEASE CONTACT MYSELF, F4YOU, OR DARRINC AND WE WILL HELP YOU AS MUCH AS WE CAN! Believe me, we have been there, and we have done that!----------------------
12-16-2005, 01:55 AM
#6
RE: CA-260 baby!
Hey Silver I will. Right now I am running on 4 hours sleep going on 48 hours so... Hopefully the return flights will be better! Finally got some real food for lunch today, yay!
I plan on a 157 Competition Series twin spark engine. Personally I like my setup, where the two ignitions and the two receivers will be totally seperate entities, for double redundancy on both. This sucker should be on some major steroids with that beast engine heh.. Incidentally I'm going to run the PEFA cans on it, and get a virtual cockpit from Kregg Wright. The only other mod I plan on doing is getting rid of the nasty huge 260 they painted on the bottom of the wings and put some large stripes going down them for visibility and presentation. Before I left, we put the rudder and the elevators on. That scheme does look sweet in person!
By the way, the fuselage weighs NOTHING! It has to be less than 3 pounds, and its HUGE. I wish I had an accurate scale to measure it in.
Yea sorry, www.composite-arf.com has the 260 on their What's New page and there you can see the instruction manual.
Pics to come Saturday. My Xmas will likely consist of a lot of 40% parts, how odd...
I plan on a 157 Competition Series twin spark engine. Personally I like my setup, where the two ignitions and the two receivers will be totally seperate entities, for double redundancy on both. This sucker should be on some major steroids with that beast engine heh.. Incidentally I'm going to run the PEFA cans on it, and get a virtual cockpit from Kregg Wright. The only other mod I plan on doing is getting rid of the nasty huge 260 they painted on the bottom of the wings and put some large stripes going down them for visibility and presentation. Before I left, we put the rudder and the elevators on. That scheme does look sweet in person!
By the way, the fuselage weighs NOTHING! It has to be less than 3 pounds, and its HUGE. I wish I had an accurate scale to measure it in.
Yea sorry, www.composite-arf.com has the 260 on their What's New page and there you can see the instruction manual.
Pics to come Saturday. My Xmas will likely consist of a lot of 40% parts, how odd...
12-16-2005, 01:58 AM
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RE: CA-260 baby!
I was with Silvanskii when we picked it up, we has to bungy the window of the cab just to hold the box in since it would not fit in. Kinda funny actually, the worlds most expensive bungy cord! (grin)
As far as the plane, I cannot say enough of how much thought and engineering went into this plane. They might be expensive, but so much work is done for you, that you do truely only assemble it. The stabs have even already been fitted, drilled, countersunk, tapped and had blind nuts epoxied in the stab tube, as is the canopy frame, while all control arms are already in place. Pretty slick!
I would say that the canopy and fitting the canister mufflers will be the toughest jobs. (just because I have never fitted cansiters before) I would definately make the fuel tank plate removable for any maintance down the road.
The composite work is top notch as always, I am curious to how much the bare fuse weighs, I would guess 2lbs tops. Everything seemed to be terminated properly, filets were done properly with a nice constant radius (not that that helps anything, it just shows the pride of the person making it) and the carbon tow looks like it has been wet out properly.
The only thing I would do is to add a microballoon/epoxy filet and a fiberglass tape in the transition from the fuse bottom and the landing gear plate, just to smooth out the load path, not for strength.
I thought I wanted one before, now I know that I must have one.
Silvanskii has given me permission to make some composite accessories for it, I just need to figure out what I want to make, very cool prospect though! Hum, single layer of carbon for....?
As far as the plane, I cannot say enough of how much thought and engineering went into this plane. They might be expensive, but so much work is done for you, that you do truely only assemble it. The stabs have even already been fitted, drilled, countersunk, tapped and had blind nuts epoxied in the stab tube, as is the canopy frame, while all control arms are already in place. Pretty slick!
I would say that the canopy and fitting the canister mufflers will be the toughest jobs. (just because I have never fitted cansiters before) I would definately make the fuel tank plate removable for any maintance down the road.
The composite work is top notch as always, I am curious to how much the bare fuse weighs, I would guess 2lbs tops. Everything seemed to be terminated properly, filets were done properly with a nice constant radius (not that that helps anything, it just shows the pride of the person making it) and the carbon tow looks like it has been wet out properly.
The only thing I would do is to add a microballoon/epoxy filet and a fiberglass tape in the transition from the fuse bottom and the landing gear plate, just to smooth out the load path, not for strength.
I thought I wanted one before, now I know that I must have one.
Silvanskii has given me permission to make some composite accessories for it, I just need to figure out what I want to make, very cool prospect though! Hum, single layer of carbon for....?
12-16-2005, 02:16 AM
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RE: CA-260 baby!
Yup Silver, I feel about as well as we did when we showed up overseas. I got 4 hours and 20 minutes of sleep, the extra 20 minutes doesn't seem to of helped! It sure is pretty here though.
12-16-2005, 11:32 AM
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RE: CA-260 baby!
Hi Darrin, is there a box for the cans? If not could you fab a box that has a removable top for maintenance? This is a very exciting design. My hangar is pretty full at the moment. Let's see where I could squeeze another in!
I sure like the 260 blue design.
Good luck with your trip boys, and git on back a lets do some build'in!
Joe Kelley
I sure like the 260 blue design.
Good luck with your trip boys, and git on back a lets do some build'in!
Joe Kelley
12-17-2005, 05:39 PM
#10
RE: CA-260 baby!
Wow, 22 hours one way, and 18 the other. I'm a smidge tired now!
Anyways, the landing gear and wheelpant assemblies are done. Not much to do there, drill holes and epoxy some wood in the wheelpants, thankfully reinforced with kevlar in the layup. As soon as I find my 5" wheels they will be done. I have a RC Blimps titanium tailwheel coming for it soon as well.
Garr.... Forgot, I have no Hitec metal servo wheels for the CA setup. Need to find those first. Tomorrow will probably be a slow day, maybe work around then front fuselage.
Here are some pictures of the plane as it is straight out of the box. The internal pictures are of the fuselage front and back, and from the wing root on either side of the spar tube. Carbon = good! More to come.
Oh forgot to mention. The elevator spar tube is already drilled, tapped, and all finished as is the stabs. Hoorah!
Anyways, the landing gear and wheelpant assemblies are done. Not much to do there, drill holes and epoxy some wood in the wheelpants, thankfully reinforced with kevlar in the layup. As soon as I find my 5" wheels they will be done. I have a RC Blimps titanium tailwheel coming for it soon as well.
Garr.... Forgot, I have no Hitec metal servo wheels for the CA setup. Need to find those first. Tomorrow will probably be a slow day, maybe work around then front fuselage.
Here are some pictures of the plane as it is straight out of the box. The internal pictures are of the fuselage front and back, and from the wing root on either side of the spar tube. Carbon = good! More to come.
Oh forgot to mention. The elevator spar tube is already drilled, tapped, and all finished as is the stabs. Hoorah!
12-17-2005, 09:17 PM
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RE: CA-260 baby!
Silvanski!
Hows the quality of this plane? I ordered a all white version and am very anxious! I really like the amount of pre-fab that the manual points out and by way of your pictures. I am curious at how the 3W 157 will work, primarily how much standoff or will you have to use the new offset Paragon Spinner that Cactus Aviation sells.
Perry
Hows the quality of this plane? I ordered a all white version and am very anxious! I really like the amount of pre-fab that the manual points out and by way of your pictures. I am curious at how the 3W 157 will work, primarily how much standoff or will you have to use the new offset Paragon Spinner that Cactus Aviation sells.
Perry
12-17-2005, 10:22 PM
#12
RE: CA-260 baby!
Hey PTS, I think that offset spinner is for the 2.6M 330 only. I really hope this thing doesn't have to use one! I'm going to be playing around with that tomorrow as I am curious myself. Also, they say to mount the engine dead center in the firewall then add washers to get the desired offset. This leaves the spinner looking slightly crooked out the front of the cowl, but I don't feel it will be noticeable. However I am anxious to see what it will really look like. I don't want to do any more re-engineering!
The layup quality of this plane (as far as is possible to tell without cutting stuff open to look) is excellent. The paint work on it is overall good, but there are some areas that need work. Most notably, small dimples in the skin in various places, some minor overruns, a few fingerprints (...), and a few chips. The fingerprints are unforgiveable and should never have been put in the box, but I can deal with them. The others are most likely factory and shipping rash. However, overall the plane looks good.
I'm excited about this sucker. The wings and stabs are merely an exercise in setting up servos and they are done. The biggest chore will be a) mounting the engine and cans, b) mounting the virtual cockpit when it gets here. I even got some of those neat Cactus rudder pull-pull cut out covers heh...
Incidentally I might as well tells yas what I'm going to be shoving into this thing.
3W157 TS CS, PEFA cans
2 TBM, 2700, 2 cell Li-Ions, one for each box and a switch for each
2 JR R950S PCM RXs
2 4800 RELIONS, 4 cell, one for each RX and a switch for each
4 8611's on elevators
6 5995's on ail and rud (2 ea.)
1 5125 on throttle
I also intend on making a smoke system setup with a tray containing smoke pump, battery, and smoke tank that is removable.
The layup quality of this plane (as far as is possible to tell without cutting stuff open to look) is excellent. The paint work on it is overall good, but there are some areas that need work. Most notably, small dimples in the skin in various places, some minor overruns, a few fingerprints (...), and a few chips. The fingerprints are unforgiveable and should never have been put in the box, but I can deal with them. The others are most likely factory and shipping rash. However, overall the plane looks good.
I'm excited about this sucker. The wings and stabs are merely an exercise in setting up servos and they are done. The biggest chore will be a) mounting the engine and cans, b) mounting the virtual cockpit when it gets here. I even got some of those neat Cactus rudder pull-pull cut out covers heh...
Incidentally I might as well tells yas what I'm going to be shoving into this thing.
3W157 TS CS, PEFA cans
2 TBM, 2700, 2 cell Li-Ions, one for each box and a switch for each
2 JR R950S PCM RXs
2 4800 RELIONS, 4 cell, one for each RX and a switch for each
4 8611's on elevators
6 5995's on ail and rud (2 ea.)
1 5125 on throttle
I also intend on making a smoke system setup with a tray containing smoke pump, battery, and smoke tank that is removable.
12-17-2005, 10:55 PM
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RE: CA-260 baby!
Sounds Great! I look forward to watching this build. Did you notice on Comp ARF the PEFA Tuned Exhaust setup withe bracketry? I wonder if the bracketry would work with the cannisters. Good luck on the exhaust setup. When I received my latest Comp ARF mine was also a little rough but I took the time to rub out the paint w/ 3M Automotive Rubbing Compound and Glaze. This took several days but man does the plane look like glass. I will send you a pic of the Red wing bottoms if you would like to see the difference.
I notice that you are using some HITEC. Go to www.donalds-hobby.com for great deals on HITEC, and JR. Great company to do business with...
Later,
Perry
I notice that you are using some HITEC. Go to www.donalds-hobby.com for great deals on HITEC, and JR. Great company to do business with...
Later,
Perry
12-17-2005, 10:57 PM
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RE: CA-260 baby!
Glad you like it, I just bought the Super Extra a couple months ago, stuffing a 157 on cans in it also. Make sure you reinforce the LG plate, first thing I did, used carbon cloth and a little epoxy. I heard about some issues with the paint, I guess I got lucky, absolutly no problems with the paint on mine. I am using the Seiko Servo on the rudder, and 8611a's everywhere else, Fromeco's, Don Harris smoke pump, Smart-Fly ignition switch, etc. Also getting a carbon wing tube from DA eventually. Can't wait to get it in the air! And the offset spinner is for the 2.6 size, the 3W 106 is a little longer than the DA 100, I'm pretty sure the DA 150 and 3W 157 are close to the same length. I ALMOST bought the 260 by the way, let us know how it goes!!
Tom
Tom
12-18-2005, 01:49 AM
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RE: CA-260 baby!
Just a FYI on the composites side, the finger prints come from pulling the part when it is green, because you don't make money having the part sit in the mold. (AKA, they need to bake the parts in the mold to solve this problem, it is logistics, not a process problem)
And the dimples come from the way they do the skins and then the core, it takes too long to do each individualy, if they did, no one could afford one. But they are still made to almost flight critical parts level of, lets say, a modern fighter plane! (full scale)
My guess at least.
And the dimples come from the way they do the skins and then the core, it takes too long to do each individualy, if they did, no one could afford one. But they are still made to almost flight critical parts level of, lets say, a modern fighter plane! (full scale)
My guess at least.
12-18-2005, 01:51 AM
#18
RE: CA-260 baby!
http://www.cactusaviation.com/Produc...e/linkage.html Technically they're linkage covers but hey.
Yea, at the top of the thread I mentioned the landing gear plate. It's solid, but as Darrin mentioned it doesn't transfer the load well at all. I'm going to fix that tomorrow, with before and after pics. You can already see in the inside fuse pic that the wooden landing gear plate and the bottom of the fuselage are joined only by a small fillet of epoxy/microballoons. This will be the area reinforced with carbon weave (if I can find some!).
The brackets for the tuned cans are different than the ones with the regular cans. The kit comes with a plywood bracket and silicone that fits the standard size regular tuned can. I made the error of buying some of the 3W mounts before I knew the 260 came with it's own mounts... Oh well, I guess I'll just use which ever looks better heh...
Thanks for the heads up PTS, but I have my own local source for radio gear, DJ Aerotech from here in Piqua. Rubbing compound sounds interesting, never used it. How does it handle different sized and depths scratches/scrapes/chips/etc?
I went back to the garage (can't.. stay.... away) and the engine looks like it should be pretty darn close with the offset washers behind the mount. Doesn't look to be an issue (whew). This does suck though, I'm stuck waiting for equipment! Good thing is, it will all be coming soon, and probably on the same day heh.
Yea, at the top of the thread I mentioned the landing gear plate. It's solid, but as Darrin mentioned it doesn't transfer the load well at all. I'm going to fix that tomorrow, with before and after pics. You can already see in the inside fuse pic that the wooden landing gear plate and the bottom of the fuselage are joined only by a small fillet of epoxy/microballoons. This will be the area reinforced with carbon weave (if I can find some!).
The brackets for the tuned cans are different than the ones with the regular cans. The kit comes with a plywood bracket and silicone that fits the standard size regular tuned can. I made the error of buying some of the 3W mounts before I knew the 260 came with it's own mounts... Oh well, I guess I'll just use which ever looks better heh...
Thanks for the heads up PTS, but I have my own local source for radio gear, DJ Aerotech from here in Piqua. Rubbing compound sounds interesting, never used it. How does it handle different sized and depths scratches/scrapes/chips/etc?
I went back to the garage (can't.. stay.... away) and the engine looks like it should be pretty darn close with the offset washers behind the mount. Doesn't look to be an issue (whew). This does suck though, I'm stuck waiting for equipment! Good thing is, it will all be coming soon, and probably on the same day heh.
12-18-2005, 01:59 AM
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RE: CA-260 baby!
I think we should use kevlar for the landing gear area, carbon will be too stiff and cause more problems, and glass flexes too much, so kevlar will be the happy medium.
I will have to show you the trick for wetting it out! (I will let you do it! Ha ha, no really, there is a trick)
I will have to show you the trick for wetting it out! (I will let you do it! Ha ha, no really, there is a trick)
12-18-2005, 02:18 AM
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RE: CA-260 baby!
Rubbing compound will feather the scratches if deep and remove lets say finger scratches or scuffs. The trick with this plane is that the paint is single stage and you can rub thru if not careful and worse you can actually damage the composite skin if you press to hard. I use a cloth diaper and fold it 4 ways to from a section that will fit the palm of my hand. At that point apply the compound and let the compound do the work. I rub in small circles to prevent swirls. I will let you know what 3m products I used tomorrow if you are interested. Hope I am not boring you or offending you on the basics of rubbing paint.
P.S. I would like to know where to buy kevlar as well.
Perry
P.S. I would like to know where to buy kevlar as well.
Perry
12-18-2005, 02:30 AM
#22
RE: CA-260 baby!
Not at all PTS, I prefer to learn from the experiences of others before screwing it up myself, thereby needing more help and... well it's a vicious cycle hehe.
Kevlar is a fickle thing. Here's one place: http://www.cstsales.com/aramid.html There's more if you search. That's just the first that came to my mind.
Kevlar is a fickle thing. Here's one place: http://www.cstsales.com/aramid.html There's more if you search. That's just the first that came to my mind.
12-18-2005, 09:07 AM
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RE: CA-260 baby!
I have the kevlar, it's just a matter of what weight and weave that I want to use. Heck, I think I have some Astroquartz laying around for that matter.
I will bring over the MSG Epoxy too.
I will bring over the MSG Epoxy too.
12-18-2005, 06:50 PM
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RE: CA-260 baby!
Wow, 22 hours one way, and 18 the other. I'm a smidge tired now!
I'm willing to venture that the product used for the polishing work was called "3M Microfinishing Compound" part number 051131-06011. That's as fine as it gets before the wax goes on. The next step coarser would be "3M Super Duty Rubbing Compound" part number 051131-05954. Next coarser above that is 2000 grit wet or dry sandpaper. All three are usually available at an auto paint supply store. Don't even bother to try looking for it at a regular paint store. The stuff is not cheap!
The 2000 paper will cut pretty fast, as will the rubbing compound. The microfine will let you go pretty slow and not leave a bunch of ugly scratches in the finish. Polish with the length of the fuselage to mask any potential buffing blemishes, and follow up the polishing process with a quality auto wax. I'm partial to the Turtle brand with no cleansing additives. Use of the multi-folded cotton cloth is important to permit proper conformation with the surface to be polished, and not conform to the highs and lows of your hand.
I used to do a lot of painting, and the above was all a part of "color sanding". The microfine also works well on aluminum products for polishing if anyone is interested. Also excellent (best) for aluminum is a product named "Zepher Pro 40" and polishes to a mirror finish.