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RE: FAI - 12/26/2005 3:11:43 PM   
acenomore


 

Posts: 9
Joined: 12/26/2005
From: , SK, CANADA
Status: offline
Season greetings if a bit late, I found this site over the holidays. A couple of notes,
- I agree that MAAC FAI competitions are no long attract the top maac pilots - so why maac is set in heading in this area at all costs?
- pattern airplanes are designed to be easy to fly, they are almost like an aerobatic trainers, so the guys flying them look like better pilots.

Perhaps the money allocated to the ACC can be reduced to $1500.00 from $16,000, that would leave over $10,000 to promote maac at events where we could impact a larger number of future maac members.

Maybe we should be setting up MAAC displays at the major airshows across Canada and get exposure to 10,000 of potential modelers instead of continuing in our old ways. Change is difficult and not easy to accept but the world has changed around us.

(in reply to Jason Holdaway)
       Post #: 26

RE: FAI - 12/26/2005 4:17:59 PM   
gingertoad


 

Posts: 64
Joined: 6/21/2005
From: Prescott, ON, CANADA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: acenomore

Season greetings if a bit late, I found this site over the holidays. A couple of notes,
- I agree that MAAC FAI competitions are no long attract the top maac pilots - so why maac is set in heading in this area at all costs?
- pattern airplanes are designed to be easy to fly, they are almost like an aerobatic trainers, so the guys flying them look like better pilots.

Perhaps the money allocated to the ACC can be reduced to $1500.00 from $16,000, that would leave over $10,000 to promote maac at events where we could impact a larger number of future maac members.

Maybe we should be setting up MAAC displays at the major airshows across Canada and get exposure to 10,000 of potential modelers instead of continuing in our old ways. Change is difficult and not easy to accept but the world has changed around us.


To Acenomore - I hope you had an enjoyable Christmas.

Your blanket statement that MAAC FAI competitions no longer attract the top MAAC pilots is worthy of challenge, to say the least. One has to realize that MAAC members represent Canada in such diverse categories as Control Line Stunt, Free Flight Power, Indoor Rubber duration and R/C Electric soaring. We have won world championships in the past and will win more in the future. Your reference was to pattern, one of many events and, even at that, I question your contention that top pilots are not attracted. As to a pattern aircraft being akin to a trainer, I am sure that Chad Northeast will have someting to say on that issue.

Our fees to ACC are not something that we can arbitrarily determine ourselves. There is a formula that determines what each member association will pay. The formula is very favourable to MAAC. I know this, because I was, along with Colin Campbell, the person who negotiated it. At a time when we faced a huge increase, we actually walked away with a decrease. We either belong to ACC, as the controlling body of model aviation in Canada, or we choose not to belong, in which case some other group would quickly form, and we would all find ourselves without a voice to control our destiny. The cost of belonging to ACC is about two and a half percent of MAAC's overall budget. Not a large amount to be in control of ourselves, and having a voice with such authorities as the FAI, Radio Advisory Board of Canada, Industry Canada and Transport Canada. Compared to the other organizations that form ACC, our fees, on a per member basis, are pretty low - less than a buck and a half per member. For some groups, the per member fee approaches twenty bucks. As has been stated repeatedly, we are not in a "WE VERSUS THEY" situation with ACC. We are part of ACC as are all the other associations that comprise Canadian Sport Aviation.

I am all for the promotion of MAAC. Any ideas you have in that regard should be discussed with your zone director and implemented if they are feasible. We need to promote our hobby better than we are at present. Retention of existing members is actually a more important goal than attracting new ones. Our drop-out rate is too high. Many RC modellers get a trainer, learn to fly, progress to a low winger and then get bored and drop out.

Please do not regard this reply as critical. MAAC is aware of the changing demographics of our hobby and many dedicated volunteers on the Board are trying to do the best for the association in the face of all the change.

As has been said many times, MAAC has to try to be all things to all people. There are some FAI competitors who have no need of frequency protection, insurance, or protection of flying fields. A much greater percentage of their dues is allotted to areas where they receive no benefit. I have never heard any of them complain about our fees to the Radio Advisory Board of Canada, or the expense of attending their meetings. Frequency protection is a high priority and even the control line and free flight modellers acknowledge that.

As I see it, we are a large, diverse family of modellers. Whether we fly Control line Speed or R?/C helicopters, it behoves us all to support each other, competitor and sport flier alike.

A happy new year to all, and may 2006 bring peace and prosperity to MAAC.

Richard Barlow

(in reply to acenomore)
       Post #: 27

RE: FAI - 12/26/2005 5:25:40 PM   
acenomore


 

Posts: 9
Joined: 12/26/2005
From: , SK, CANADA
Status: offline
I fail to understand the maac obession with FAI, after all FAI is only another sporting organization, it's like saying NASCAR is the end all and be all of automobiles.

If maac went to the ACC with a solid proposal negeotating a fee of $1500.00 instead of the $16,000, the ACC would have to consider that proposal, what is in the fear of trying. I'm not sure if we have 200 FAI competitors each year.

I flew pattern in the 70's & 80's, I found them the easier models to fly.
cheers - John

(in reply to bbbair)
       Post #: 28

RE: FAI - 12/26/2005 7:11:43 PM   
gingertoad


 

Posts: 64
Joined: 6/21/2005
From: Prescott, ON, CANADA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: acenomore

I fail to understand the maac obession with FAI, after all FAI is only another sporting organization, it's like saying NASCAR is the end all and be all of automobiles.

If maac went to the ACC with a solid proposal negeotating a fee of $1500.00 instead of the $16,000, the ACC would have to consider that proposal, what is in the fear of trying. I'm not sure if we have 200 FAI competitors each year.

I flew pattern in the 70's & 80's, I found them the easier models to fly.
cheers - John

Hi John,

NASCAR refers to one American automotive discipline. FAI covers all sport aeronautical disciplines world wide. The comparison lacks validity.

The ACC has to pay fees to FAI. These fees are jointly shared amongst the member organizations in ACC. We already pay far less per capita than any other organization within the ACC. We have negotiated and renegotiated our contribution. Many organizations have their members contributing ten times what we do. Please read once again what is in my last post. We have the most favourable position possible right now.

I never implied that pattern aircraft are particularly difficult to fly. They fly large sweeping manoeuvres and are less "Squirrelly" than 3D types, but it does take special skills to fly them at a world championship level.

There was a situation where MAAC was briefly separated from ACC about a decade ago. Sorting out the situation cost MAAC financially and in terms of membership anger. I do not recommend that we go down that path again. To undermine the MAAC membership within ACC/FAI would split MAAC into pieces and destroy our organization.

As an RC flyer, if MAAC is currently meeting your needs, be happy that it also meets the needs of others - or at least tries to.

There have been repeated posts and explanations from people who are intimately involved in the entire ACC/FAI business. These are intelligent, honest people who are striving for MAAC's best interests. These posts paint a very clear picture if carefully examined.

I have seen no attempts by the free flight, control line, indoor and competition modellers to divert the MAAC funds that are applied to expenses totally unrelated to their pursuits. As long as their needs are met, they seem happy that others have their needs attended to.

Let us stop attacking the priorities of others and instead concentrate on ides to make our association grow and prosper.

If you have ideas in that vein, I would like to be exposed to them.

Richard Barlow


(in reply to acenomore)
       Post #: 29

RE: FAI - 12/26/2005 8:03:51 PM   
j79


 

Posts: 37
Joined: 10/29/2005
From: To, ON, CANADA
Status: offline
quote:

We already pay far less per capita


Thte is no logic in your statements becasue the CAPITA does not need or use or FAI. why can't that premise get through to the ACC.

$16,000 annually for a handful of flyer to do an activity, that is s bit extravagant don't you think for the hundred of so FAI maac competitors each year that works out to $160 per member and the board is beating up the SW zone for $2K.

If the CAPITA want to be ACC FAI members let them pay for that membership same as I pay for my IMAA and IMAC membership fees.

Why are these few getting a free ride?


(in reply to gingertoad)
       Post #: 30

RE: FAI - 12/26/2005 8:32:53 PM   
Jason Holdaway


 

Posts: 139
Joined: 4/25/2004
From: Strathroy, ON, CANADA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ed Smith

The M.A.A.C. offers a package of services to it's members. Not all members need or use them all. I do not understand the downright selfish attitude of those that would remove the services that they do not use. Why should they consider other peoples needs? It is Me, Me, Me.



Well said. It reminds me of and old poem "First they came..." it is a poem attributed to Pastor Martin Niemöller (1892-1984) about the quiescence of German intellectuals following the Nazi rise to power and the purging of their chosen targets, group after group.

When they came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I did not speak out;
I was not a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

Bottom line is that if we don't support one another, we will eithier no longer exist, or we will be dominated by one group. I only fly sport, seaplanes and combat. If for some reason I wanted to fly FAI, I'd be glad to know there was a dedicated group of modelers to support me. This doesn't mean I think we should shell out cash for nothing, or to quit looking for more cost effective ways of doing things. It just means that I think working together to reach a common goal is the best route for all members. Afterall, how many FAI flyers have never flown sport?

(in reply to Ed Smith)
       Post #: 31

RE: FAI - 12/26/2005 11:38:28 PM   
can773



Posts: 1637
Joined: 1/25/2002
From: Calgary, AB, CANADA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jason Holdaway

Afterall, how many FAI flyers have never flown sport?


I was out flying sport just today!!! Now I am off to fly a little more sport indoor!!

COD2 rocks man!!! I am past the D-Day campaigns now and into Normandy.....they have a misson for the landings at Pointe Du Hoc, it was eerie as I visited the bunkers there this summer and walked all around it....they did a very good job at recreating the scenery.


_____________________________

Chad Northeast

(in reply to Jason Holdaway)
       Post #: 32

RE: FAI - 12/27/2005 12:17:13 AM   
Jason Holdaway


 

Posts: 139
Joined: 4/25/2004
From: Strathroy, ON, CANADA
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I get my COD2 tomorrow at my inlaws. I downloaded a patch for my original COD and it disabled all the cheats. In one way, I'm glad because it makes it more intense to play. But on the other hand, I hate to lose. I'm a little divided on this issue

So what were you doing at Pointe Du Hoc? I love WWII history and would love to go there. But, my next trip is going to be here at Philipsburg / St. Maarten - Princess Juliana (SXM / TNCM)

http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=211543&WxsIERv=Obrvat%20747-228OZ&Wm=0&WdsYXMg=Nve%20Senapr&QtODMg=Cuvyvcfohet%20%2F%20Fg.%20Znnegra%20-%20Cevaprff%20Whyvnan%20%28FKZ%20%2F%20GAPZ%29&ERDLTkt=Argureynaqf%20Nagvyyrf&ktODMp=Bpgbore%2028%2C%202001&BP=0&WNEb25u=Whfgva%20Prqreubyz&xsIERvdWdsY=S-OCIL&MgTUQtODMgKE=Lrnu%2C%20ur%20vf%20ERNY%20ybj%21%20Vs%20Nve%20Senapr%20unq%20anzrf%20sbe%20gurve%20nvepensg%20yvxr%20Cna%20Nz%20qvq%2C%20jr%20pbhyq%20pnyy%20guvf%20bar%20%22Pyvccre%20bs%20gur%20Srapr%22.&YXMgTUQtODMgKERD=1205290&NEb25uZWxs=2002-01-06%2000%3A00%3A00&ODJ9dvCE=&O89Dcjdg=21745%2F370&static=yes&width=965&height=636&sok=%20BEQRE%20OL%20ivrjf%20qrfp&photo_nr=1&prev_id=&next_id=047556


< Message edited by Jason Holdaway -- 12/27/2005 12:20:41 AM >

(in reply to can773)
       Post #: 33

RE: FAI - 12/27/2005 12:31:21 AM   
can773



Posts: 1637
Joined: 1/25/2002
From: Calgary, AB, CANADA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jason Holdaway

I get my COD2 tomorrow at my inlaws. I downloaded a patch for my original COD and it disabled all the cheats. In one way, I'm glad because it makes it more intense to play. But on the other hand, I hate to lose. I'm a little divided on this issue

So what were you doing at Pointe Du Hoc? I love WWII history and would love to go there. But, my next trip is going to be here at Philipsburg / St. Maarten - Princess Juliana (SXM / TNCM)



Wow thats an amazing picture

After the Worlds (as they were in France) we toured around and I felt it very important to visit the D-Day beached most importantly Juno beach and Dieppe. Pointe Du Hoc is one of the best places we found to actually see anything as most of it has been cleaned up and is in museums along the beaches. The bunkers, craters, gun placements etc are all "intact" I guess you could say.

Anyways its a very powerful/emotional place to visit and I am glad I went. Although we only spent two days there which is not nearly enough to see everything.

Cheating on the Xbox requires the system to be modded, so that pretty much eliminates that Its a difficult game, but lots of fun


_____________________________

Chad Northeast

(in reply to Jason Holdaway)
       Post #: 34

RE: FAI - 12/27/2005 3:21:20 AM   
gingertoad


 

Posts: 64
Joined: 6/21/2005
From: Prescott, ON, CANADA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: j79

quote:

We already pay far less per capita


Thte is no logic in your statements becasue the CAPITA does not need or use or FAI. why can't that premise get through to the ACC.

$16,000 annually for a handful of flyer to do an activity, that is s bit extravagant don't you think for the hundred of so FAI maac competitors each year that works out to $160 per member and the board is beating up the SW zone for $2K.

If the CAPITA want to be ACC FAI members let them pay for that membership same as I pay for my IMAA and IMAC membership fees.

Why are these few getting a free ride?



Sorry to contradict you. F.A.I. contestants do not get a free ride. Before you make that assertion, check the cost of an FAI Sporting licence. Every contestant has to buy one out of his own pocket. I would doubt that IMAC and IMAA combined cost that amount.

The other assertion that I keep seeing is that membership in ACC only affects FAI flyers. Not True. Our membership in ACC establishes MAAC as the governing body of all aeromodelling in Canada. Do you want some other body to sieze control of aeromodellig? I don't.

There is a big picture here, and this has to be realized. Simplistic self-centred "solutions" will not help MAAC. Concentrate on the real need - getting and retaining mrmbers.

Richard Barlow

(in reply to j79)
       Post #: 35

RE: FAI - 12/27/2005 3:52:08 PM   
sam369


 

Posts: 17
Joined: 12/3/2005
From: Edmonton, AB, CANADA
Status: offline
quote:

Our membership in ACC establishes MAAC as the governing body of all aeromodelling in Canada. Do you want some other body to sieze control of aeromodellig? I don't.



That is a big pile horse manure and a threat to scare the every day maac members from asking what does acc to for us - similiar to today's federal campaign threat - if you don't support us, then the ......................................... maac members are not dumb.


IF Aero Club of Canada (ACC) had any authority why then are not the following groups part of Aero Club of Canada

Canadian Owners and Pilots Association (COPA) (in fact COPA left ACC, why?)
Air Transport Association of Canada
Canadian Seaplane Pilots Association
HAC


the only thing acc governs are model airplane fai competition rules

as for aviation and model aviation

the federal government through Transport Canada set the rules and regulations

fromer MAAC president had a large role in working with Transport Canada

(in reply to gingertoad)
       Post #: 36

RE: FAI - 12/27/2005 7:18:26 PM   
Applehoney


 

Posts: 69
Joined: 8/17/2005
From: Ajax, ON, CANADA
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>maac members are not dumb.

Very true. However, a few apparently suffer from 'tunnel vision' and are consistently unable to perceive the whole picture no matter how precisely, and often, it is presented......

(in reply to sam369)
       Post #: 37

RE: FAI - 12/28/2005 5:12:44 AM