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RE: Outlaw flyers - 2/4/2006 4:02:41 AM   
KidEpoxy



Posts: 3261
Joined: 10/14/2004
From: San Antonio, TX, USA
Status: online 		uh, huh? what.... what did I not respond to... just give me the post# and I'll reread it & respond

Leel- RE: #281
I 'm not from San Antonio, I just moved here December. I'm fom Rancho Cuccamonga & Hayward/San Jose CA. I used to fly at the Pumpkin Patch by Sheldons LHS. The streetfliers at the Patch have been around for a decade and some are AMA guys as well. We know where the clubs are, and don't interfere.

deliberatly go fly near a established AMA field to reek havoc
Isn't that essentially what Epoxykid is advocating? Sure sounds like it to me.
quote:

KidEpoxy, #270
I'm not gonna drive 10 miles to get near a club to fly. But if there is a club next to my flying field I'll share, I may even chose to go somewhere else, but I sure the heck wont be run off and have my fair use of public freqs taken away. Post 206 Letter Link was in response to me pondering about a letter to share, I had no idea that topic was beat to death years ago.
Leel 268, Me 270, Leel 271 - where is the havoc in that exchange?

What language do I need to type in, cause when I said that in english it wasn't understood I guess. Rather than reading my mind, read my text. By saying I would not travel to a clubfield, I get labed as one that promotes that. By saying I'd like to compromise & share, I get labeled as a loose cannon out for just me. By saying I'd like to find an established outlaw gang, I get labels as running around willy nilly trying to cause havoc (A20Havoc fav plane BTW)

Lets see what happens with this one:
I am NOT president of the US.

Go ahead, turn that one around too.

_____________________________

Optional MA is part of AMA history, we can go optional AGAIN if we just say so

(in reply to LeeL)
       Post #: 301

RE: Outlaw flyers - 2/4/2006 3:55:12 PM   
Liberator


 

Posts: 793
Joined: 3/2/2005
From: Sandy, UT, USA
Status: offline 		This is specifically what I was asking about and you attempt to dance around the issue.

"Actually it is extremly accurate. Pro sharing? Why does sharing even enter into it? If there was one place in the world to fly and everyone had to share it thats one thing, you however feel the need to force folks into an agreement simply because you can. Not other reason at all. Asking for 5 out of 50 frequencys? If you travel 3 miles further you get them all. Plus, you don't have to worry about who may accidently walk over you. "

So let me write this again in English and see if you can understand it enough to answer.

Why does an established field need to even consider sharing with an outlaw?
The outlaw is a helluva lot more mobile and can fly in far more places than someone flying nitro or gas. Therefore the outlaw has far more options than the clubber.

I expect your answer will be because the FCC mandates it. In my book thats an excuse to be a jerk and force and issue that should not have to be brought up. So whats the other reasons?





< Message edited by Liberator -- 2/4/2006 3:57:41 PM >

_____________________________

One man's crash is another man's carefully planned landing maneuver.

(in reply to KidEpoxy)
       Post #: 302

RE: Outlaw flyers - 2/4/2006 5:17:55 PM   
rsallen13



Posts: 538
Joined: 5/20/2002
From: Montgomery, IL, USA
Status: offline 		Okay, I'll bite.

Let's ask it the other way.

Why does an established field feel they have the right to monopolize all 50 frequencies?

Would 5 frequencies out of 45 be unreasonable?

Oh yah "We where here first!" and "you only have to go three miles."

What if the only other place for them to fly (other than the club field) is only 2 miles away?

When put that way who is being the jerks now!

Just depends on which side if the arguement you are on as to who you feel is being the jerk.

And ultimately the FCC rules are the final say not AMA or the club.

(edited to add end quotation mark)

< Message edited by rsallen13 -- 2/4/2006 5:18:43 PM >

(in reply to Liberator)
       Post #: 303

RE: Outlaw flyers - 2/4/2006 10:41:29 PM   
Liberator


 

Posts: 793
Joined: 3/2/2005
From: Sandy, UT, USA
Status: offline 		"Let's ask it the other way.

Why does an established field feel they have the right to monopolize all 50 frequencies? "

Not only were they here first, but they have spent money in most cases to improve the flying site.

"Would 5 frequencies out of 45 be unreasonable?" Yes completely, When an outlaw can fly pretty much where ever he/she wants due to the size and quiet nature of teh aircraft, it is absurd to expect anyone to have to give up any frequency jsut becasue you want to fly close to an established field.

"Oh yah "We where here first!" and "you only have to go three miles."

What if the only other place for them to fly (other than the club field) is only 2 miles away?"

Are you serious? That is a pretty weak argument. So your saying that the town is on an island that is 2.5 miles across and therefore an outlaw flyer would have to go into the ocean in order to fly? Pretty silly scenario, but in that case sharing would be a completely acceptable option.

"When put that way who is being the jerks now!" Anyone demanding that the majority of flyers in an area capitulate to the demands of a minority of the flyers.

Oh and by the way, if a group of "Outlaws" got together and created a site, sunk thousands of dollars into it and flew there for a lengthy period of time...say years, and a group of nitro and gas clubbers lost the lease on their field and got a chance to buy a field within 3 miles of the electric guys...They need to go elsewhere. The one time outlaws have established themselves and should not be forced to move or share. THe now homeless clubbers need to go find a place to fly 3 or more miles away.

"Just depends on which side if the arguement you are on as to who you feel is being the jerk."

If you say so, I think it's obvious who is being a jerk.

"And ultimately the FCC rules are the final say not AMA or the club."

Yup they are, but if you invoke the laws to make people bend to unreasonable demands, then the person being the jerk is plain to see.


_____________________________

One man's crash is another man's carefully planned landing maneuver.

(in reply to rsallen13)
       Post #: 304

RE: Outlaw flyers - 2/5/2006 12:08:11 AM   
retnavycdr


 

Posts: 163
Joined: 8/26/2002
From: PUEBLO WEST, CO, USA
Status: offline 		I guess I could be called an "Outlaw" when I fly in my backyard. My backyard is over 50 acres of ranchland in Southern Colorado and it IS FUN to start up a plane in the workshop. taxi it out the door, and take off, sit in a lawn chair and fly lazy circles in the sky. Occasionally chase a vulture or flock of pigeons. But it is ALSO fun to go to the club field on Saturday and Sunday and socialize with all the nice fellows there. Therefore I also renew my AMA each year!

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_____________________________

Roger in Colorado (Just another Old Curmugeon..)

(in reply to Jim Thomerson)
       Post #: 305

RE: Outlaw flyers - 2/5/2006 12:16:06 AM   
Loubud



Posts: 7210
Joined: 8/2/2004
From: Ventura, CA, USA
Status: offline 		The obvious jerk here is the field that won't share 5 out of 50 channels.

_____________________________

Vegetarian. Old Indian saying meaning Lousy Hunter.

(in reply to Liberator)
       Post #: 306

RE: Outlaw flyers - 2/5/2006 12:22:28 AM   
rsallen13



Posts: 538
Joined: 5/20/2002
From: Montgomery, IL, USA
Status: offline 		What can I say as a long time AMA member I understand why you think this way.

We can re-hash this with 100 different what ifs and it would still come out the same way.

Regardless of the "thousands of dollars" that you say the clubs put in to there fields at the end of the day there is nothing you or I can legally do to stop someone from flying across the street from your field.

We may not like it and you can call them "Outlaws" or what ever label you what, but he has a legal right to fly anywhere that it is legal for him to operate his plane even if it is across the street from your field.

As I said who is the jerk in the senerio depends on more factors than we can list here. At then end of the day if he is up first and you purposely interfere with his frequency you are in the wrong and the same goes for the "Outlaw" flyer.

You may not like this, but thats the reality of the situation.

I fly "Outlaw" right now, but because I belong to the AMA I respect the distances the AMA requests of OTHER CLUBS not other flyers. I don't have to, but I chose to do this.

I could just as easily fly at the park 500 yards up the road from the local club and there would be nothing they could do. They fly in a Forest Preserve area and the other park is part of a housing developement. The FP restricts flying in the preserve to their field but they have no jurisdiction over the private park.

If I were to fly there I would let the club know what frequency I would be flying on, but you know something I would not do it, and not because I'm a nice guy, but because I would put money on the fact that if someone at the club had my frequency they would try and shoot me down.

In that senerio who would be the jerk?



(in reply to Liberator)
       Post #: 307

RE: Outlaw flyers - 2/5/2006 12:35:42 AM   
Loubud



Posts: 7210
Joined: 8/2/2004
From: Ventura, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Too many scenarios for me to think up. But I still think that the 45 to 5 split was very reasonable.
Good luck to you anyway. Too bad your fellow AMA guys are of the frame of mind to shoot you down. Just the idea that one of them might do it is reason enough to stay away from people like that.

_____________________________

Vegetarian. Old Indian saying meaning Lousy Hunter.

(in reply to rsallen13)
       Post #: 308

RE: Outlaw flyers - 2/5/2006 12:47:07 AM   
rsallen13



Posts: 538
Joined: 5/20/2002
From: Montgomery, IL, USA
Status: offline 		5 and 45 is reasonable to reasonable people, unfortunately I have meet enough of the club types that feel the way that some in this forum feel to know that it would never happen.

As for the club I mentioned. I do not know any of them personally, but I have been around enough AMA clubs to know that there is always a small group that would do something like that and I have no desire to find out with one of my planes.

I have been to there field and it is a basic field and maybe when I have more time for the hobby I might join so I can fly some of my slimers.

Until then I'll fly my electrics at the park so my kids can enjoy the playground and I can fly. AND I'M ON CHANNEL 13

(in reply to Loubud)
       Post #: 309

RE: Outlaw flyers - 2/5/2006 12:50:53 AM   
Loubud



Posts: 7210
Joined: 8/2/2004
From: Ventura, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Flying with your family is the best. Even if they aren't all that interested in the flying part, the park gives them many choices.
I'm on 32,36 and 48. Need many so I can fly with my bro and nephew.
Edited to irratate Horsefly

< Message edited by Loubud -- 2/5/2006 12:51:47 AM >

_____________________________

Vegetarian. Old Indian saying meaning Lousy Hunter.

(in reply to rsallen13)
       Post #: 310

RE: Outlaw flyers - 2/5/2006 12:58:40 AM   
rsallen13



Posts: 538
Joined: 5/20/2002
From: Montgomery, IL, USA
Status: offline 		Mine are 11, 7, 6, & 4. They all fly my G3 simulator, but they haven't asked to fly the real one yet. I've offered and they have helped in the shop, but they all have said "someday". I'm riding on the 6 and the 4 year old as the two who might actually take up the hobby.

6 year old wants me to get a Hydro-Foam!

(in reply to Loubud)
       Post #: 311

RE: Outlaw flyers - 2/5/2006 1:34:51 AM   
Loubud



Posts: 7210
Joined: 8/2/2004
From: Ventura, CA, USA
Status: offline 		My Bro wpuoldn't fly an RTF I have till I told him the total and different replacement costs. New wing, ten bucks. He flies it now.

_____________________________

Vegetarian. Old Indian saying meaning Lousy Hunter.

(in reply to rsallen13)
       Post #: 312

RE: Outlaw flyers - 2/5/2006 4:12:16 AM   
KidEpoxy



Posts: 3261
Joined: 10/14/2004
From: San Antonio, TX, USA
Status: online 		I'm starting to think Liberator is not going to give me the post# so I can reread it & respond.
I'll wait some more, in case he's been busy or something. I can scroll back pages if need be when he gets around to giving me the number.

retnavycdr - hey man, some punks tagged your yard with a BIG black X... progably gangbangers I like the way you placed trees to protect the house from stray planes, looks like that one did its job perfectly IF you had a club as a neighbor, would you want to talk to them and find a freq you could use without trouble, or would you like to just not fly from your workshop and choose to drive 3 miles from your club neighbor. Just your preference, no wrong answer.

rsallen13 - Maybe you'll get lucky and find a Leel type reasonable club that will work toward safe flying for everyone... one could hope.

_____________________________

Optional MA is part of AMA history, we can go optional AGAIN if we just say so

(in reply to Loubud)
       Post #: 313

RE: Outlaw flyers - 2/5/2006 4:49:39 AM   
Liberator


 

Posts: 793
Joined: 3/2/2005
From: Sandy, UT, USA
Status: offline 		No need to scroll back any pages, I requoted myself right here and all you have to do is look up.

I am starting to think that Epoxykid can't respond....Period.

I chose not to give the number because its right up top here. Ok now I have said that twice. I will bet you still fail to respond. Man it's like pulling teeth.

And Lou and the other person, sorry I didnt grab the names. I would imagine you think 5 out of 50 is perfectly fine, unless it's your frequency you are being forced to share. I am sure that most of the guys and gals here are well off enough that they can afford mutliple systems. What about the poor guy that can't? Still think it's fair?

Edited because I need to respond to Lou, and in the event it upsets horsefly, cause that is pretty fun as well.

< Message edited by Liberator -- 2/5/2006 4:53:59 AM >

_____________________________

One man's crash is another man's carefully planned landing maneuver.

(in reply to KidEpoxy)
       Post #: 314

RE: Outlaw flyers - 2/5/2006 5:02:38 AM   
Loubud



Posts: 7210
Joined: 8/2/2004
From: Ventura, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Lib,
Sharing usually causes a problem somewhere but what are ya gonna do? 50 frequencies and a gazillion flyers. Has to be a winner and a loser in there somewhere. I'm hoping the