RE: Outlaw flyers  
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RE: Outlaw flyers - 2/6/2006 5:00:05 AM   
rsallen13



Posts: 538
Joined: 5/20/2002
From: Montgomery, IL, USA
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The point I have been trying to make is that people want to fly at the location that bests suits their requirements, what ever that might be. The fictional park flyers want to fly at the park and they have made, what seems to me is a reasonable request that is in the interest of safety for at both the park and the club. How the letter is worded would dictate the clubs response.

Give them and ultimatum and the club would likely balk, word it as a request and also ask “if not those 5 which 5 would you prefer we use?” and it might be warmly received along with a reply with what works best and possibly a invitation to stop by the club and fly there to see if they would like to join.

Unfortunately, I do not see the latter happening regardless of how the park flyers would word the letter for the same reason that Liberator stressed. The “we were here first and we are AMA” defense. (No offence intended Liberator just making a point)

Until spread spectrum does arrive and the manufactures stop making standard frequency radios this will continue to be an issue. Notice I did not say mandated by AMA because really it is whether or not the flyers will purchase them or if the manufactures find a way to update current radios like they did in the ‘Gold Sticker” days. Or, god forbid, the FCC mandate it. Something like Futaba making a module for 8UAP, 9z’s and the like that can just be popped in, but I don’t expect this to happen or the issues go away any time soon.

How the clubs react and how well the park flyers are educated will mean the difference in the future growth of this hobby. The park flyer craze is bringing a lot of new and younger flyers into the hobby. Its real impact will not be felt until they get older and have the real disposable income to invest in this hobby.

I would expect as these flyers get tired of the 2 and 3 channel 27 mhz park that they will begin looking for more to feed this addiction we call our hobby. We, and I mean those of us who fly now whether you are AMA or not, must find solutions to these hypothetical issues before they become all to real.

Not flying at a club has opened my eyes to just how many individuals do not fly at organized clubs or belong to AMA. I hope that the AMA can find a way in the future to interest these flyers and to further promote this hobby as a wholesome and family endeavor. Unfortunately, current AMA management hasn’t a clue but that is an item for another thread.

I try to do my part in the discussions that I have with others that I fly with at the park, and maybe if some of the club flyers would pick up a foamy and stop by the local park it might actually do more to increase you membership than any other one thing the club does.

(in reply to Liberator)
       Post #: 326

RE: Outlaw flyers - 2/6/2006 5:01:03 AM   
abel_pranger


 

Posts: 2274
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From: St Augustine, FL,
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy
<snip>The ama says the amaclub has to have an agreement with non-ama-clubs in 3 miles... right? So just what is a non-ama club if not the Tshirted, Napkin Chartered, Parkie Pals Flying Club... they could even have a www page



Well.......not quite, Kid.

The AMA says a frequency sharing agreement may exist between AMA clubs, between an AMA club and an individual AMA member, or between individual AMA members. Non-AMA clubs and non-AMA members by AMA policy do not exist, ergo frequency conflicts can only occur between AMA entities. If you are not an AMA member and not flying at an AMA chartered club site, there is no issue and this long thread is much ado about nothing. Besides, AMA insurance does not cover liability situations that result from RFI, so nobody in his right mind is going to be screaming "Channel XX!!! I got got hit!!!" when he crashes his model airplane into something breakable and expensive.

Abel

(in reply to KidEpoxy)
       Post #: 327

RE: Outlaw flyers - 2/6/2006 5:36:16 AM   
KidEpoxy



Posts: 3165
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From: San Antonio, TX, USA
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ohhh, ok, I interpreted Able's previous post wrong, I see my Parkie Pals idea wont float.

so it's more like they don't recognize anyone else would be flying, but conveniently exclude RFI from the insurance.... RFI from the outlaws that dont exist since ama guys would have boards, agreements, & distance

do I have it right this time Abel?

_____________________________

Optional MA is part of AMA history, we can go optional AGAIN if we just say so

(in reply to abel_pranger)
       Post #: 328

RE: Outlaw flyers - 2/6/2006 5:42:06 AM   
b.bixel


 

Posts: 263
Joined: 1/1/2002
From: Marysville, WA, USA
Status: online



quote:

ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy

look at the ama club in Fremont, CA to see flying in a city. Postage stamp field with NoFly lines over a bus depot and homes.

so the gist of the 3mile is the Parkies just have to type a Parkie Pals Flying Club charter on a napkin, get some Tshirts made, Collect $8 dues (free Tshirt), and write a letter to the ama club, cc AMA, proposing a sharing plan 5/45 split for agreement. The ama says the amaclub has to have an agreement with non-ama-clubs in 3 miles... right? So just what is a non-ama club if not the Tshirted, Napkin Chartered, Parkie Pals Flying Club... they could even have a www page

as for who among us can better afford crystals: I'm delivering pizza for a pittance, affording things is not one of my abilities at this point.


Not quite so easy....

At least 5 of the parkies must be AMA members / club officers, and AMA club charter paper work and additional fees must be paid to become an AMA recognized club.

These requirements go against what some parkies believe.

Regards,
Bart




(in reply to KidEpoxy)
       Post #: 329

RE: Outlaw flyers - 2/6/2006 5:57:16 AM   
rsallen13



Posts: 538
Joined: 5/20/2002
From: Montgomery, IL, USA
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And Kid the AMA will not give you your charter unless you send in a signed frequency sharing agreement with the exisiting club. But as a AMA member part of the safety code is that you will not fly within 3-miles of another club with out a sharing agreement (went back and read it after Abel corrected me). So as soon as the parkies join the AMA they would be bound by the AMA safety code and would have to stop flying at the park until they got a sharing agreement with the club.

Sort of a catch 22.

The club status with AMA would not be effected because they would have no way (other than frequency anilyser (sp)) to know who you are or where you are, but it would be easy for you to find out where they are. If they did then they know who you where then (and this is a gray area at least as I read it) the both of you would be required to work out a sharing agreement.

edited with more stuff



< Message edited by rsallen13 -- 2/6/2006 6:00:14 AM >

(in reply to KidEpoxy)
       Post #: 330

RE: Outlaw flyers - 2/7/2006 2:58:59 AM   
KidEpoxy



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From: San Antonio, TX, USA
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the intent of the Parkie Pals club was a NON-amaclub, I know it's an abstract concept to have a club that is not in the ama, but I was going for the 3mile rule when I thought it was for AMA clubs next to non-ama clubs... Able straitened me out on the un-existance of any club that isn't ama.

The whole point of the Parkie Pals insta-club is mute, since there can be no clubs/RCers outside the ama in the ama's eyes. Thanx for the joining tips, but was not intended to charter under ama.

_____________________________

Optional MA is part of AMA history, we can go optional AGAIN if we just say so

(in reply to rsallen13)
       Post #: 331

RE: Outlaw flyers - 2/11/2006 3:42:36 PM   
gunfighterII



Posts: 2284
Joined: 11/28/2004
From: Lincoln, NE, USA
Status: online
I'm also a AMA member that fly's at a outlaw field and also a member of my local club, I hate rules and the AMA as much as anybody but, I can't help but notice that all the talk is about insurance and how worthless it is, it's just typical insurance, there going to screw you as much as you'll take. Why does'nt anyone ever look at the bigger picture, such as frequency retention from all the cell phone companies and all the lobbying efforts put on by AMA to keep the hobby going, and look at all the other things they do to help flyers out, like flying site development, without our money we don't have much of a voice. What are you guy's going to do when the government sells our frequencies to a internet company for wireless internet, or a cell phone company, you think you got interference now, wait till that happens. If you can afford to be in this hobby, you can afford $58.

_____________________________

AMA #381531

(in reply to Jim Thomerson)
       Post #: 332

RE: Outlaw flyers - 2/11/2006 3:52:01 PM   
lnjfarms



Posts: 53
Joined: 2/9/2002
From: Norwood, MO, USA
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Well here we are 14 pages later and my orginal question is still not awnsered. I can; however make two proven conclusions. One : no one knows the awnser to my question.





< Message edited by ghost_rider -- 2/12/2006 4:25:12 AM >

(in reply to gunfighterII)
       Post #: 333

RE: Outlaw flyers - 2/11/2006 4:01:31 PM   
Loubud



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From: Ventura, CA, USA
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Gunfighter.
Typical all AMA all the time statement. Should have read all the pages.
Injfarms. Not a good statement. The AMA is a peaceful group.

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Vegetarian. Old Indian saying meaning Lousy Hunter.

(in reply to gunfighterII)
       Post #: 334

RE: Outlaw flyers - 2/11/2006 4:10:22 PM   
bhole74



Posts: 1072
Joined: 12/16/2003
From: Anderson, MO, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lnjfarms

There are a considerable number of us who fly RC and refuse to become AMA members. The reasons are various. How do we go about getting our own sub heading in the forums.
thanks
John Mckinney
Outlaw Flyers of Missouri



There are already many forums here which do not pertain to the AMA, in fact all but one I'm aware of. The question you failed to answer is Why? What would you like to discuss that doesn't pertain to the AMA which you can't find a forum for?

I don't see any "manufacturer bashing"subforums so why an AMA bashing forum?
Just a question from a former "outlaw", now an AMA card carrying "outlaw".

_____________________________

Had I known that flight was going to cost me $100 per second, I wouldn't have flown 30 seconds!

(in reply to lnjfarms)
       Post #: 335

RE: Outlaw flyers - 2/11/2006 4:19:58 PM   
b.bixel


 

Posts: 263
Joined: 1/1/2002
From: Marysville, WA, USA
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: lnjfarms

Well here we are 14 pages later and my orginal question is still not awnsered. I can; however make two proven conclusions. One : no one knows the awnser to my question.

Two hardcore AMA club supporters are the Moslems of the RC world their rhetoric is the same





The original question (without the ?) was "How do we go about getting our own sub heading in the forums."

The answer is you ask the guy who owns this site, not us the average user. We don't make the sub headings, we just bloviate in them! Well at least in this forum anyway.

Bloviate \BLOH-vee-ayt\, intransitive verb: To speak or write at length in a pompous or boastful manner.

Regards,
Bart



(in reply to lnjfarms)
       Post #: 336

RE: Outlaw flyers - 2/11/2006 4:33:15 PM   
Liberator


 

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From: Sandy, UT, USA
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Not worth it


< Message edited by Liberator -- 2/11/2006 4:34:56 PM >


_____________________________

One man's crash is another man's carefully planned landing maneuver.

(in reply to lnjfarms)
       Post #: 337

RE: Outlaw flyers - 2/11/2006 5:50:43 PM   
rsallen13



Posts: 538
Joined: 5/20/2002
From: Montgomery, IL, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: b.bixel

Bloviate \BLOH-vee-ayt\, intransitive verb: To speak or write at length in a pompous or boastful manner.



Wow you watch FOX! and can use a dictionary. Instead of asking the users of the AMA forum about a Outlaw forum try asking this question in the Suggestion Forum or E-mail/PM RCAdmin direct. He is the one who will ultimately decide yes or no. Thats how the AMA forum was started. Some one asked and he responded with this forum.

The majority of these forums were started at the request of a single member making the first request.

But to save time I have already put one in for you.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3897222/anchors_3897222/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#3897222

(in reply to b.bixel)
       Post #: 338

RE: Outlaw flyers - 2/11/2006 5:51:43 PM   
gunfighterII



Posts: 2284
Joined: 11/28/2004
From: Lincoln, NE, USA
Status: online
I'm neither all AMA nor am I all outlaw, I just support the hobby.

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AMA #381531

(in reply to Loubud)
       Post #: 339

RE: Outlaw flyers - 2/11/2006 6:01:06 PM   
gunfighterII



Posts: 2284
Joined: 11/28/2004
From: Lincoln, NE, USA
Status: online
If I would have read all the pages, there would be no time to fly, I sure hope your a homeowner! your going to need the insurance!

_____________________________

AMA #381531

(in reply to Loubud)