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All Forums >> Glow Engines, Gas Engines, Fuel & Mfg Support Forums >> RC Fuels >> Running In Fuel shortage!
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Running In Fuel shortage! - 1/2/2006 6:42:21 PM   
isaacslaw


 

Posts: 172
Joined: 9/29/2003
From: Nicosia, CYPRUS
Status: offline 		Hi all:

I have just moved to Cyprus from the US (Indiana) and have just finished up a model and will be running in the engine (ASP .52 2 stroke) this week. The manual (actually a magnum .52 manual) says that for run-in you must use 20% castor and no more than 5% nitro fuel. The trouble is that here in Cyprus, I can not find 20% castor oil. It's very frustrating, and everyone in the USA ought to take a minute and appreciate the very low prices there and the availability of products (I have been doing this since I got here). I have found some Wildcat fuel, but its 5%nitro and 16% oil, of which 80% is synthetic and 20% is castor. Shall I add some castor oil? How much? Any ideas are very much appreciated -- thanks much.
       Post #: 1

RE: Running In Fuel shortage! - 1/2/2006 7:33:29 PM   
piper_chuck



Posts: 7896
Joined: 6/13/2004
From: Pittsboro, NC, USA
Status: offline 		I doubt the engine really requires 20% pure castor instead of 20% oil with some of it being castor. Get yourself some castor and add the right amount to bring your fuel up to 20%. The math would go something like this:
1 gal = 128 ounces
16% of a gal is 20.5 ounces
20% of a gal is 25.6 ounces
This may not be exact, but it doesn't have to be. A gallon of your fuel would need about 5 ounces of castor to bring it up to 20%. If your fuel is measured in liters, just redo the math.

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RE: Running In Fuel shortage! - 1/2/2006 7:49:49 PM   
isaacslaw


 

Posts: 172
Joined: 9/29/2003
From: Nicosia, CYPRUS
Status: offline 		Thanks PC:

I will try your formula. I think I will have to brew my own fuel here eventually (up to $36.00/gal here) and that will come in handy.

(in reply to piper_chuck)
       Post #: 3

RE: Running In Fuel shortage! - 1/2/2006 7:58:04 PM   
piper_chuck



Posts: 7896
Joined: 6/13/2004
From: Pittsboro, NC, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: isaacslaw

Thanks PC:

I will try your formula. I think I will have to brew my own fuel here eventually (up to $36.00/gal here) and that will come in handy.

Check my arithmetic. Even though I have a degree in math, I've been known to make silly mistakes.

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       Post #: 4

RE: Running In Fuel shortage! - 1/2/2006 8:26:37 PM   
w8ye



Posts: 17462
Joined: 12/11/2001
From: Taylortown, OH, USA
Status: offline

Short term.... Drug store caster is OK if you can find it.

Make sure the castor looks about like what you are used to?

Long term.... Try to find a source of Methanol and Lubricant. Doubt if you will find Nitro? Without nitro, you will need to add a little acetone to make the fuel stable enough so you can set the needles.

Enjoy,

Jim



< Message edited by w8ye -- 1/5/2006 2:54:47 AM >

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RE: Running In Fuel shortage! - 1/2/2006 8:53:25 PM   
Hobbsy



Posts: 10677
Joined: 12/2/2001
From: Colonial Beach, VA, USA
Status: offline 		Political content removed, back to fuel. Sorry Jim, we arrived at the same time.

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RE: Running In Fuel shortage! - 1/2/2006 9:41:13 PM   
pe reivers



Posts: 2768
Joined: 1/23/2002
From: Arcen, , NETHERLANDS
Status: offline 		Since the Wildcat fuel already has some castor in it, you can safely increase the castor content without harm to the lubricating properties of the synthetic oil.
Since you already have 16% oil, you need to add 4% castor, or make it 5%. A bit extra will not hurt your engine.
so you need to add about 40cc of castor to each liter fuel you mix. (again about 1.43 ounces/liter, if you can get a beaker with ounce markings ) I love metric
If you cannot get castor from a model shop, Medicinal castor is excellent, and available all over the world.

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RE: Running In Fuel shortage! - 1/2/2006 11:08:20 PM   
Ed Cregger



Posts: 7734
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Ringgold, GA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: piper_chuck

I doubt the engine really requires 20% pure castor instead of 20% oil with some of it being castor. Get yourself some castor and add the right amount to bring your fuel up to 20%. The math would go something like this:
1 gal = 128 ounces
16% of a gal is 20.5 ounces
20% of a gal is 25.6 ounces
This may not be exact, but it doesn't have to be. A gallon of your fuel would need about 5 ounces of castor to bring it up to 20%. If your fuel is measured in liters, just redo the math.



------------


It isn't that critical. I like adding 4 ounces of castor to mostly synthetic oil fuel for break-in of my Chinese (and Taiwanese) made four-strokes. It just makes me feel better. I have also been known to add synthetic oil to bring the oil content up a bit for break-in. If the engine doesn't get scorching hot, it won't be affected by whether you are using castor or synthetic to bolster the oil content. Compatibility of different synthetics might be an issue.

The point being to run the little four-stroke very rich initially and to not let it get too hot. Then shut it off for cooling and then repeating the process all over again.

I think that the factory folks are more concerned about someone throwing it on a model, peaking it out and then thrashing the hell out of it so that the temperature rises to unacceptable levels.

Yes, we Americans take so much for granted. We are truly fortunate - even yet.


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       Post #: 8

RE: Running In Fuel shortage! - 1/5/2006 2:41:14 AM   
w8ye



Posts: 17462
Joined: 12/11/2001
From: Taylortown, OH, USA
Status: offline 		This thread has been a problem child and has been locked up for a day. I thought I would unlock it so this gentleman could get some more help. He felt very bad that everything got blown out of proportion.

We have removed a half dozen posts from this thread relating to cross referencing units of measure and how much better one country is than another and we will be watching for off topic posts. This thread was moved here from Glow Engines in the hope that some of the off topic instigators would not post to it.

There was more than one person posting to this thread that has a vast experience in the subject that the orignator wanted to know more about. I hope they can share some more of thier experience here?

Enjoy,

Jim

< Message edited by w8ye -- 1/5/2006 2:43:17 AM >

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       Post #: 9

RE: Running In Fuel shortage! - 1/7/2006 3:10:59 PM   
Fuelman


 

Posts: 1035
Joined: 12/31/2001
From: Jordan, NY, USA
Status: offline
quote:

Hi all:

I have just moved to Cyprus from the US (Indiana) and have just finished up a model and will be running in the engine (ASP .52 2 stroke) this week. The manual (actually a magnum .52 manual) says that for run-in you must use 20% castor and no more than 5% nitro fuel. The trouble is that here in Cyprus, I can not find 20% castor oil. It's very frustrating, and everyone in the USA ought to take a minute and appreciate the very low prices there and the availability of products (I have been doing this since I got here). I have found some Wildcat fuel, but its 5%nitro and 16% oil, of which 80% is synthetic and 20% is castor. Shall I add some castor oil? How much? Any ideas are very much appreciated -- thanks much.


The wildcat mix you mention would be fine with a touch of oil added to it as suggested above, if you can find the oil. Even though the instructions state 20% castor oil fuel, I firmly believe that 20% (especially all castor) in a modern engine is not truly needed. If you could find some pharmacy castor oil that would be fine for adding a couple ounces per gallon. Better yet, find a motorcycle or scooter shop (last time I was in Cyprus, I saw several) and pick up some castor or suitable methanol soluble synthetic such as motul micro or something similar as long as it is methanol soluble.

If you truly can not find any castor or other lubricants to add to the fuel, do not abandon the hobby, just run and enjoy your engine on the fuel you have with carefull attention to the tune. If you can find suitable lubricants for methanol based fuel, then you may want to start your search for methanol and start making your own fuel there.

Please keep us posted on how you are making out. and feel free to e-mail me direct if you have any questions.


_____________________________

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Cooper Fuels LLC

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       Post #: 10

RE: Running In Fuel shortage! - 1/8/2006 4:48:12 PM   
isaacslaw


 

Posts: 172
Joined: 9/29/2003
From: Nicosia, CYPRUS
Status: offline 		Hi guys! Here is a status update. Thanks for all of the replies. I went down to the pharmacy here and had a trial trying to make the guy understand that although there are better things for an upset stomach, I really wanted the castor oil for my airplane. In the end, though, I came away with two bottles of medicinal castor oil. I read the posts and since there was general agreement that the amounts were not critical, I just put a bit of castor oil in about 1/2 gallon of the wildcat fuel. I started up the engine today and it actually turned over, but really did not want to get going. After it ran for a minute, I shut it down. It was running very rough, but I expected it too. It would not really reach full throttle and kept bottoming out. It was too dark to see if there was white smoke coming out, and I didn't want to chance it, so having had it running for a minute, I was happy for today. This week, I will resume with the home-brew fuel and see how it goes. THanks again to all.

(in reply to Fuelman)
       Post #: 11

RE: Running In Fuel shortage! - 1/9/2006 4:30:29 AM   
downunder



Posts: 3191
Joined: 10/10/2002
From: Adelaide, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Don't worry too much about how much castor you put in the fuel, the engine will easily handle 25% and probably thank you for it too

If you're not sure if the engine is running rich or lean then just give the fuel line a quick pinch. If the revs rise it's rich and you're safe, if the revs drop then it's too lean so open the needle. However from what you said about it running rough then it's probably in a rich 4 stroke. Not to worry, just lean it very slightly until the rough sound goes away but no leaner than that.

(in reply to isaacslaw)
       Post #: 12

RE: Running In Fuel shortage! - 1/14/2006 1:07:35 PM   
isaacslaw


 

Posts: 172
Joined: 9/29/2003
From: Nicosia, CYPRUS
Status: offline 		I finally found some extra time today and was able to finish breaking in the engine. The castor I put in the fuel seemed to work pretty well == the engine never overheated at all. Still, I ran it very rich just to be on the safe side. I am a bit new with the fuel planes and did have some additional questions:

1) The engine is an ASP .52 two stroke. I gave it four runs very rich for a total of 26 minutes of actual run time. It really never got above 11400 rpms. It also would never satisfactorily idle at all. It would just die. Does this sound about normal, or is it a product of my home-brew "that's about right, maybe" castor oil infusion?

2) There was always plenty of white smoke, but the exhaust residue was a blackish color -- again, is this normal?

3) I am a complete chicken and can't bring myself to adjust the high speed needle while the engine is running. Anyone have any suggestions on how to get over this?

Thanks again to everyone for their assistance--it's great that even though I don't have all the things I need over here, I can still get the help from the boards.

Tim

(in reply to downunder)
       Post #: 13

RE: Running In Fuel shortage! - 1/14/2006 5:31:23 PM   
w8ye



Posts: 17462
Joined: 12/11/2001
From: Taylortown, OH, USA
Status: offline 		I cannot remember is the ASP 52 ringed or ABC. I know the Magnum 52 is ABC but that doesn't mean that the ASP is also.

Ringed engines you want to run very rich in the beginning then run them at higher speeds alternately as they free up and gain compression.

ABC engines should be run just a slightly rich and cycled up to temperature and back a lot. Run them up at a higher speed like 10-11000 rom.

It's OK to stop your engine to adjust the needle valve.

The idle could be related to a number of things. If you are running straight Methanol/castor, the needle setting will be critical without a little stabilizer added.

It could be related to the glow plug if you are still using the one that came in the engine.

Enjoy,

Jim

< Message edited by w8ye -- 1/14/2006 5:35:28 PM >

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       Post #: 14

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