RE: Walkera 22E Lets Talk (Full Version)

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phillyD -> RE: Walkera 22E Lets Talk (7/2/2008 5:52:06 PM)

Sounds good mwcyborg
Just be careful with the tail motors. You will still have to stop and cool off every four minutes, or you may have to change tail motors after every flight. Just that you may not have to charge as often.
Cheers



cenracer1 -> RE: Walkera 22E Lets Talk (7/2/2008 5:54:03 PM)

hfenn, been thru alot of tail rotors myself, I always keep spares handy.. Nice job on the landing.. my biggest fear is losing the tail at altitude and watching it crash to the ground.. Both times mine were like yours and died just at the ground.. been kind of lucky like that..
Mwcyborg, I saw that technology on a show a few months back, sounds interesting, but time will tell how well it works and how much it costs.. I would like to see a price drop in the batteries first, thats the big issue right now..



cenracer1 -> RE: Walkera 22E Lets Talk (7/2/2008 6:25:40 PM)

Finally got my 22E back into flying shape last night.. had a few bearings that had to be replaced, and the guide pins had to be glued with epoxy.. seems this head with only 2 flights on it wasn't such a good deal after all.. the head is fine, but the bearings are junk.. Had to "Borrow" a few 3x6 bearings from my sons x-mod to replace some bad ones and the new bearings in the blade grips were all bad.. they were very jerky in their movements.. tested in the shop and adjusted the tracking.. There is no vibration at all now.. everything is silky smooth like a new bird.. I will fly a few packs tonight or tomorrow.. wanted to fly this morning, but I had to put my sons x-mod back together before work...LOL
I have the day off tomorrow and according to the weather report, should be sunny and very light winds... maybe I'll burn up a few packs and my son will as well..



hfenn -> RE: Walkera 22E Lets Talk (7/2/2008 9:45:35 PM)

cenracer1 I was about 10' up with some forward motion, but it still wasn't as bad as it could have been. Well, I spent the afternoon finding out that the E-sky 3-in1 is not suited for the 22E (gyro doesn't have enough gain and the proportional mix maxed out and still not enough), so now I've put the stock radio back in and borrowed the tail motor from the HoneyBee for the time being. Now I know, and knowing is half the battle (now I'm quoting GI Joe, lol).



cenracer1 -> RE: Walkera 22E Lets Talk (7/3/2008 3:35:43 AM)

Flew the new and improved..LOL 22E this evening and it went perfectly.. the heli was super smooth with no vibrations at all.. not even a hint.. The tail was rock steady as well.. I have never had it so steady before.. trimmed out center on the adjustments and it held for 3/4 of the pack.. then 1 click to the right for the rest of the pack... I usually don't do this but I flew in a parking lot behind my condo, so was a little more nervous about landing than normal... everything went too well... I hope tomorrow is just as good as tonight was....
Hfenn.. I thought you were closer to the ground than you were...that just makes your landing even better than before...



mwcyborg -> RE: Walkera 22E Lets Talk (7/3/2008 7:03:18 AM)

Hey Guys I have a Q about tail motors. I've never had one seize up during flight. I've always been lucky enough to pick up the symptoms of a dying motor and change it before disaster happens. This has been the same for my main motors aswell. From what I've read on earlier posts it sounds like a tail motor can just lock up during flight? I can image how scary a pirouette landing could be...??
Has anybody had a main motor or tail motor lock (die) up during flight? I would love to know how it went???



tommis85 -> RE: Walkera 22E Lets Talk (7/3/2008 10:11:05 AM)

mwcyborg....um yeh, I've had the main motor go way up high but all my tail motors have died slowly in flight forcing me to land with the rudder hard to one side to drain the last bit of life out of the motor for a safe landing.


Because the main motor is bigger than the smaller one, the brushes inside it will give way slower during that minute in which the heli dies. As the brush parts melt away or lose contact, the heli starts to drop as the rev's die down....I gunned the thottle to full and the heli came down to earth quite gently. Then, once on the ground I dropped the thottle back to 50% or so and watched as the motor slowly died completely. Blades came to a stand still and that was it basically. At the time when it happened I thought I had killed a battery - but I later found it was the motor.

Thankfully I havent had a motor completely fail catastrophically!!

I'll have to learn how to auto(rotate) the Belt CP before the motor dies on it - although I suspect that the motor in it will last for many hours.

Tom



mwcyborg -> RE: Walkera 22E Lets Talk (7/3/2008 10:42:14 AM)

Hi Tom

Thanks a lot for this info. It is a little reassuring to know that most of the time the motors show a signs of ware, and shouldnt suddenly die during flight. One of my many Honeybee CP2 tail motors that I replaced had actually locked up where it could not be rotated even by hand, luckily enough this was only after I had landed. I have not had a problem like that since I've been using heat sinks, and I recon that its benficial to use more than one heat sink on both the main and tail motor. I guess excessive heat is what seized it.




cenracer1 -> RE: Walkera 22E Lets Talk (7/3/2008 11:34:04 AM)

I've had two main motors die during flight as well as tail motors as well... usually you kind of know its about to happen, but I was surprised at times as well... never had one lock up though, just slow down once, and stopped 2nd time.. the tail rotors just stopped...I have a lipo monitor on my heli and the first sign of something wrong is the battery monitor will sound very early in the light.. I guess the bad motor is trying to pull too much juice.. shortly after that,less than a minute, the motor will die then... of course you have to be paying attention to the monitor to see that...



mwcyborg -> RE: Walkera 22E Lets Talk (7/3/2008 12:25:12 PM)

Can an electric heli auto rotate? For this to happen surely it would have a one way bearing? I think the clutch just diengages on a nitro heli of the motor cuts out?



mwcyborg -> RE: Walkera 22E Lets Talk (7/3/2008 12:28:18 PM)

Hey Cenracer1, thats good feedback thanks. I guess for those of us who don't have lipo monitors then reduced battery life could be used as an indication of a motor dying? Thats if all else is good on the heli (pitch, mesh, gyro etc...)



heliaction -> RE: Walkera 22E Lets Talk (7/3/2008 2:08:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mwcyborg

Can an electric heli auto rotate? For this to happen surely it would have a one way bearing? I think the clutch just diengages on a nitro heli of the motor cuts out?


you have a one way bearing and it allows the blades to spin freely, the 22e will not auto because well for one it has no one way bearing of course......... but the tail needs to be belt or shaft driven off the main motor. I can auto my 450 but people dont like to do it with the smaller helis because there isnt enough inertia in the blades. i have seen youtube vids of bigger helis auto and i was impressed at how well the do.



RobBeach -> RE: Walkera 22E Lets Talk (7/3/2008 2:18:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mwcyborg

Can an electric heli auto rotate? For this to happen surely it would have a one way bearing? I think the clutch just diengages on a nitro heli of the motor cuts out?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autorotation_%28helicopter%29

Yes... in theory, but in practice not these.

Usually when my main motors die, they die slowly so that the motor is still spinning but without
enough power to give it lift... so the helicopter sort of "parachutes" to the ground.

I am guessing you are trying to apply autorotation for a tail motor malfunction.... because in autorotation
there is no torque applied, or at least not much, to the tail.

An interesting topic that autorotation is also applied is "Settling with power"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settling_with_power .

There are "rings of lift" that change under powered flight and autorotation and settling with power.

For simplicities sake... what I do... is buy extra wires that run to the tail motor.. they are cheap.
When I want to fly big at the park... I put in a new motor
or one that doesn't have much fly time.
I run my wires outside the the tail boom...... if you bend a boom... I heat them up with a mini
butane "Pencil Torch" refillable costs me about $6.50... easy to do with the wires outside the boom.
Heating the boom up makes bending them back easier and they will break less.

You can even pre-solder wires and motor for swap outs on the flying field if you die there.
I just use electric tape to tie to secure them to tail boom... with a razor blade I cut thin strips of electric tape.

Also... if you do a lot of bench testing and trimming you may consider disconnecting the tail motor to extend it's life.



tommis85 -> RE: Walkera 22E Lets Talk (7/3/2008 10:24:37 PM)

Robeach, yep that's some good info there. Yeh, I disconnected my rear motor too for bench tests - no need to run it when you're not flying haha!

I've watched a couple of vids of people doing auto's in belt cp's and yeh, they're doable I guess but it's more of a "parachute" back to earth in an emergency lol!

But hey guys, I thought I'd share my two most favourite auto-rotate videos with ya'll. Now, the first one is with a real helicopter and it's quite impressive. When he touches down you can see how massive his blade angle is!

The second one I got here is of some poor dude practicing in the wind. He must be quite a pilot to do this in a "storm" but you should see how well his auto's turn out.

Tom



Tommyjoking -> RE: Walkera 22E Lets Talk (7/4/2008 4:59:41 PM)

arrgh trying to fight some wind and had a low altitude egg beater type crash.....broke a ball in a blade nip and trashed another tail boom.....went ahead and replaced the entire head with a fresh metal one and normal size balls.......my son ask me "just let me crash it for once" I guess he is ready for a new bird....I don't want to discourage him with the 22 so I need to get him a good FP heli (fixed pitch with cyclic), any recommendations??? I might go ahead and get him a hBK2 ...cause they seem docile enough. Maybe get Dad one too and put this killer elf motor in it.[:)]

I am going to go get some cut off blades for my dremel and slice on old boom and make a sleeve type fix. One of these days I will weld up or maybe bend a tail boom with a u shape at the end to eliminate blade strikes in a crash.

Anyway it started raining this morning so no more flying, hopefull for tommorow and huge acreage at my inlaws. Funny cenracer you mentioned not liking pavement, I have only flown with pavement take off and landing zones (so I can slide in if neccesary, still wearing training gear) , do you get less damage from turf crashes or>>>?

Happy independance day all you Americans!!

Tommy




cenracer1 -> RE: Walkera 22E Lets Talk (7/4/2008 6:34:29 PM)

Tommy.. pavement is great with the training gear, not without.. I have some fuel tubing on my skids to prevent sliding and I think that doesn't help with landings on pavement.. you have to stick the landing or it wants to tip over.. and the blade strikes will get expensive.. I feel it makes me a better flyer, just alot more tense to land.. I have to land with good headspeed, then slowly cut the throttle while keeping the head upright.. adding cyclic to prevent tipovers.. These rubber tubes work great on dirt, just too grippy on blacktop...



Dash C -> RE: Walkera 22E Lets Talk (7/7/2008 1:17:34 AM)

Hey guys, Im completely new to the hobby, so forgive any ignorance that seems to flow from my keys..

anyway, I crashed my 22e a while back and upgraded to an aluminum head. (Im not sure what kind it is.. )
I have a couple questions about it.
1. After I spun it up, I discovered a BAD vibration about quarter throttle. not even close to idle. I'd already balanced my main blades, fly bar and tail rotor blades.
could it be that I have a slightly bent main shaft?
2. I also noticed that the ball linkage joints when connected to the new aluminum parts are not loose, but stiff. is this ok?
The servos will move them ok, but they just seem stiff. I checked the range of movement and it seems ok.. but i dunno.

3. the aluminum head came with a silver disk mounted on the top of the seesaw.
during my first spinnup that part flew god knows where.. I forgot to check if it was tight. and well.. its gone.
is that important? or is it cosmetic? (the stock head had nothing like it)

its good to have a forum like this available. Thanks for any and all info you offer.



Dash C -> RE: Walkera 22E Lets Talk (7/7/2008 2:04:59 AM)

quote:

I got the fms simulator do you know if there is a 22E or simular to download? I know the threedee flies much the same it would just be cool to have the same model.

< Message edited by acebusa 1/16/2006 3:53:11 AM >



I downloaded a honeybee CP2 model for FMS.. its the closest model to the 22e flight wise that I've found as far as stability.
you can download it here.

http://www.buzzflyer.co.uk/mt2/track.asp?mtr=http://www.buzzflyer.com/honeybee_fms.zip



cenracer1 -> RE: Walkera 22E Lets Talk (7/7/2008 2:09:56 PM)

DashC... I have the same head and my links were tight as well.. I kind of worked them around a bit on the balls to loosen them up.. they are better, but still not as loose as the stock plastic ones.. I don't know how tight yours are, too tight will slow the response and possible damage the servos... The disc on top, don't know if it makes any difference, mine was on tight, but had to loctite eveything else on the heli..
I had the same vibration that you were talking about at 1/4 throttle thru liftoff.. don't fly it that way!!!! I found out that while the vibration wasn't too bad to fly, it effected the gyro causing loss of control and thankfully a light crash.. the cause of the vibration turned out to be bad bearings on the mainshaft.. mine were original.. caused a bit of play that you can feel and really comes out when flying.. also the blade grip bearings were crap... don't make the grips too tight to the t-bar holder.. just snug up, feel for binding, back off a bit and loctite in place.. works better than new that way.. lastly, check your main shaft.. It could be bent.. they are made from a soft metal and pretty easily bent.. If you need the main shaft bearings, they are 3x6x2.....



borderlord -> RE: Walkera 22E Lets Talk (7/7/2008 8:05:38 PM)

Hi guys
485 pages in this topic. Guess this must be the place for all things 22.
Couple of questions.
Just bought a 22E from e-bay. Came complete with all separate electronics, and metal head. Took a lot of work, but I have got the head working right now.
What I need now is the pitch settings for normal flight. On my bigger helis, I start with -1, 5, 10 degrees.
This usually gets me in the ballpark, but I am not sure whether these are right for the 22.
Can someone enlighten me?
Also, the heli came with a 5000 Kv motor. I would imagine this is too high for 3s packs, but would it be useable on a 2s pack?
This would give the tail motor an easier life, but not sure if it would produce enough power to keep the tail under control.
Any thoughts?



Tommyjoking -> RE: Walkera 22E Lets Talk (7/7/2008 9:59:25 PM)

borderlord I am no xpert but I am pretty sure that motor will totally overwhelm your tail on a 3 pack. Not sure about running it on a 2. I just bought a parts 22 with a 4200kv and it was a bit too much in head speed. I shut up and let the vets answer all this stuff.[;)]

Well all I rekon I will declare myself all practiced up for tail in hover. My fly by attrition method has got me holding tight low tail in hovers in 8-10mph gusts (never going to get a windless day it seems). So I guess I should practice left-right and nose in >>now? or should I go straight to forward flight? (with pre sim practice of course). [8|]




tommis85 -> RE: Walkera 22E Lets Talk (7/7/2008 10:32:10 PM)

Hi Tommy, looks like all is going well for you as far as the heli goes? That's good with you keeping it real in the wind. We had quite some detailed discussioned about 20 pages or so back about where to go from there and what seamed popular was to try to fly a circuit from left to right rather than nose in. In other words, go from tail in to "side on" and then, finally, to nose in.

My first circuit involved flying from left to right for about 25-30m and then pitching up into the air to slow her down...then I'd flip the tail around and come back again - fly past me - and then pitch up again to repeat the process. I done the whole pitch up thing for a little while till I learned how to do proper corners on the flight sim [;)]

My 2 cents worth. You could give it a shot - it's easy. Much much easier than hovering - I think everyone on here can vouch for that!

Oh, one other thing I done before flying a circuit was fly out infront of me for 15m or so and then fly back towards me backwards - with that you can sorta get a feel for the heli's speed and acceration. But that's extreme noob - I wouldnt worry about that too much haha!

Tom



Tommyjoking -> RE: Walkera 22E Lets Talk (7/7/2008 10:53:16 PM)

Tom that sounds a whole lot more fun then flying a box at six feet.........might get me a little less scared of getting some distance. I get the idea kind of like an immelman sort of turn then repeat. Will do first day there is not a hurricane out here LOL!



Dash C -> RE: Walkera 22E Lets Talk (7/8/2008 2:01:09 AM)

ok. it sounds like I should disconnect the servos and play with the head linkages for a bit.
I've noticed that they are tight enough to not quite allow the swash to level out after a hard left/right tilt.. just doesn't quite go back to zero if ya know what I mean.

I disconnected the motor to check my balance of the main rotors, the head did not spin freely like I expected.. almost like it was catching on something, with a slight dull clicking noise.
I never considered the bearings, but it seems like that could be a viable solution. (I have already ordered a shaft, thought weather its bent or not, it sounds like a good part to have around.)

now about the bearings...

is there a place where I can buy just the bearing set, or do I need to buy that whole plastic assembly that the main shaft sits in?
also, everywhere I search, all I see are 3x6x2.5 bearings. is this what your talking about? or are they 3x6x2

would you suggest getting the "replacement part" and swapping my old bearings for the new ones from the new part? or are there better bearings to purchase?
I'm really new at this stuff.. I just don't want to get the wrong stuff.



thanks for your help btw. I really appreciate it.



Dash C -> RE: Walkera 22E Lets Talk (7/8/2008 2:54:43 AM)

Nevermind on the bearings. I found a site that sells them.. (I think they actually make them)
called OmniModels.com
heres the link for the dragonly 22e main shaft bearing set.
http://www3.omnimodels.com/cgi-bin/woi0001p?&I=GWSE2048&P=0

You were right. its a 3x6x2
They only charge $2.50 a set.
this opposed to the $6 part you get from walkera....whatever. you save $1

oh. and in my seemingly endless search I found a parts blowup from walkera's site.. has proven QUITE useful already.



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