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RE: Norvel Engine FAQ - 2/6/2006 8:09:14 AM   
burtcs


 

Posts: 456
Joined: 12/20/2004
From: Corvallis, OR, USA
Status: offline 		I'm much too lazy to throw the depth Mic on the thing to get a baseline deck height, but...Adding or removing a head gasket does alter the deck height. The deck height is the part of the cylinder not used by the piston in it's travels, the head gaskets do contribute to that.

I'm viewing head gaskets as a compression ratio thing (the short, sweet and simple form). (piston swept displacement i.e. top to bottom dead center)+(Head volume)+(deck volume) / (head volume)+(deck volume) = Compression ratio. I don't know what the ignition point of 15% Nitro fuel is but I do know that by adding or subtracting a head gasket I can alter that point (I'm advancing or retarding the ignition point of the fuel). This will show up in the tach. readings and as you noted glow plug life. Until I add or subtract a head gasket, the ignition timing is just a loose cannon rolling around. Right now it isn't making any notable difference. I do think your right, the cylinder is still too tight.

A 5-3 prop eh? I just happen to have a rubber ducky I pulled off of a Holland Hornet; it's got the right prop hole in it. By now I really hate this engine it'll be fun to hear it squeal. Besides Norvel was dumb enough to offer a three year warranty. Hey I'm game, maybe tomorrow.

Regards - Steve B.

(in reply to combatpigg)
       Post #: 51

RE: Norvel Engine FAQ - 2/6/2006 9:07:38 AM   
Bipe Flyer



Posts: 4981
Joined: 11/6/2002
From: Mission, BC, CANADA
Status: offline 		It really shouldn't be that complicated. Call SIG and have it replaced. They replaced one of the earliest .074s (1999) for me because it was only getting 18,000 on a 6X3 and 16,000 on a 7X3.

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       Post #: 52

RE: Norvel Engine FAQ - 2/6/2006 1:02:51 PM   
combatpigg



Posts: 9573
Joined: 11/22/2003
From: arlington, WA, USA
Status: offline 		BURT, the deck is the top of the block, or in this case the ledge that the glow head mates to. The deck height is the dimension from TDC to this spot.

Head clearance is the dimension derived from stacking head gaskets.

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       Post #: 53

RE: Norvel Engine FAQ - 2/6/2006 5:13:08 PM   
Bipe Flyer



Posts: 4981
Joined: 11/6/2002
From: Mission, BC, CANADA
Status: offline 		Steve, see this recent post by beenie. http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=3875460

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       Post #: 54

RE: Norvel Engine FAQ - 2/6/2006 7:11:10 PM   
D Bronk



Posts: 2162
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Wpg, MB, CANADA
Status: offline 		Playing with, head Gaskets ,moves the Squish band .Playing with, Cylinder base gaskets ,moves the Deck height,and the Sguish decreases, by the thickness, of the base gasket,installed....Add a gasket ,on the base, of the cylinder,and the Port timing, changes, too..

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(in reply to Bipe Flyer)
       Post #: 55

RE: Norvel Engine FAQ - 2/14/2006 5:31:50 AM   
burtcs


 

Posts: 456
Joined: 12/20/2004
From: Corvallis, OR, USA
Status: offline 		CP: I had a chance to fire up the 074 with a 5-3 prop and 15% nitro a week ago. No it didn't blow, it did peak at 22.5k. I was kind of proud of it.

I am boxing it up for warranty return. With a 7-3 APC RPM's never exceeded 9K - what a pig.

I called the phone number the warrenty sheet mentions, it's on your dime and you do not need an RMA number. Return your engine CO Justin.



Regards - Steve B.

(in reply to combatpigg)
       Post #: 56

RE: Norvel Engine FAQ - 3/3/2006 2:08:52 AM   
rchotrod



Posts: 90
Joined: 2/14/2003
From: spivey, KS, USA
Status: offline 		Engine: .061 AME, clip on muffler with pressure tap, 3 plug shims, 1 cylinder gasket, small sliver of fuel tubing under carb seal

I purchased this engine used and everything is in great shape. I tore it down to check it over and it looks good. Has good comp and runs well when its running, but that is only for a minute or so.

Started with 15% nitro and have since went to 30% nitro. Both fuels seem to have the same result. A minute of run and quit. I have replaced the glow plug and same result.

Wondering if the engine is still to tight and needs more run in time or if it is in need of rebuild. Seems like the needle setting is tough to get right. I started by following the instructions and adjusting a few clicks at a time. But the short run time is making that tough to do. I am using a small 1 1/2 oz sullivan tank for a test run tank. Plane will have a 2 oz round sullivan.

This is my first 1/2A engine. And I have flipped my finger numb trying to figure it out.

See ya,
Rod

(in reply to burtcs)
       Post #: 57

RE: Norvel Engine FAQ - 3/3/2006 8:14:18 PM   
burtcs


 

Posts: 456
Joined: 12/20/2004
From: Corvallis, OR, USA
Status: offline 		rchotrod:

You may wish to go back an reveiw my post on AME needle valves; they are very touchy. If your engine will run for one minute or so; your not getting fuel to keep it going. But I bet it's breath-taking while it's doing it.

I've only use two AME 061s (four 049's), I use a shim stock pressure tanks and crank case pressue back plates (serious pressure) to keep them going. I use Galbreath heads and Nelson glow plugs (head gaskets vary - one or two); they work a bit better than Cox High Compression glow heads, my experience is the Norvel plugs are way down the RPM range. I start the engines with a Norvel starter spring, get the needle to settle down and lauch the model. This may take twenty or thirty seconds total - start to finish. I'm also now using KK needle valves on them. I'm flying AMA class A gas free flight with the 061's. Maybe a CL Combat guy may have a better solution; they have to fly longer then this. All of this is true for 049's also. I also use 60% nitro in all my AME's, APC 6-2's in the 061's and APC 5.5-2 in the o49's.

I'm guessing your not getting fuel, the engine doesn't have enough draw to pull fuel from your tank for more than a minute and your going to have to force more in. The large venturi and the AME's needle doesn't help anything either.

There's nothing wrong with AME's they're just not a user freindly sport engine. One of the difficulties is that guys here do not distingush between Norvels. Norvel peddles AME's and they peddle Big Migs; they are not the same engine. AME's gotta move, good luck...

HTH - Steve B.










< Message edited by burtcs -- 3/3/2006 8:20:19 PM >

(in reply to rchotrod)
       Post #: 58

RE: Norvel Engine FAQ - 3/3/2006 10:53:31 PM   
rchotrod



Posts: 90
Joined: 2/14/2003
From: spivey, KS, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks, I have read the various threads on these engines. Just seem to be having a difficult time with this one. Will keep at it.

I call it an AME because that is what's on the box. I am too new to these to know one from another. Just wanted to post as much info I knew about the engine.

I may try the back plate pressure tap and see if that works better than the muffler tap. I want it to be as reliable in the air as possible. The intended model will weigh in at just under 20 oz. So I hope it will be a good match. Seemed to have plenty of thrust on the test runs.

Yea, trying to fiddle with the needle with a screaming engine spinning a prop at the speed of death is a bit breath taking.

See ya,
Rod

(in reply to burtcs)
       Post #: 59

RE: Norvel Engine FAQ - 3/4/2006 11:37:28 PM   
rchotrod



Posts: 90
Joined: 2/14/2003
From: spivey, KS, USA
Status: offline 		My flippin' finger is flipped out but I finally got the norvel to run through a tank. AH the sweet sound of success.

I got it running with Magnum 15 % syn/castor blend and an AP plug with one or two, can't remember, plug shims.

I could get about 14000 rpm with a wooden 6x3 prop. And still have a good transition from idle to full throttle. If I tried to lean it out any further, it wouldn't pick up from idle and would try to stall out or would quit. One or two clicks on the needle makes a difference in the transition. Idle was about 10k but I could adjust that down a bit.

I don't have a temp gun, the engine wasn't blistering hot, but was able to touch for a second or so.

Will have to try out some more of the Magnum 30% Heli plus and see if I get good results.

Gotta let the flippin' finger rest. Or finish my starter. Got all the parts but need to figure out how to get the socket on my prop adapter and get some tubing inside the socket. Made the starter out of old r/c car parts. Motor, 4 cell pack and a stick with a doorbell button.

See ya,
Rod

(in reply to rchotrod)
       Post #: 60

RE: Norvel Engine FAQ - 3/5/2006 12:05:29 AM   
Bipe Flyer



Posts: 4981
Joined: 11/6/2002
From: Mission, BC, CANADA
Status: offline 		Rod,

Good to hear you're getting it sorted out.
Don't worry about setting the needle until you've broken it in. Run several tanks through it and use a smaller prop for break-in, like a 5X3.

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1/2A all the way!
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(in reply to rchotrod)
       Post #: 61

RE: Norvel Engine FAQ - 3/5/2006 1:12:33 AM   
rchotrod



Posts: 90
Joined: 2/14/2003
From: spivey, KS, USA
Status: offline 		I bought the engine used and it is supposed to have been broken in and have two flights. I had to hit everything just right I guess.

I found a airspeed mph calc online and figuring 14000 rpm and a pitch of 3 I got a result of just under 40 mph. That should be plenty for a 20 oz plane.

see ya,
Rod

< Message edited by rchotrod -- 3/5/2006 1:44:02 AM >

(in reply to Bipe Flyer)
       Post #: 62

RE: Norvel Engine FAQ - 3/5/2006 11:43:52 PM   
twostroke



Posts: 347
Joined: 4/17/2002
From: Milaca, MN, USA
Status: offline 		Is it possible to start a new .074 by hand or is a starter needed. Also will I have to get a 1/2a one or will my starter for my other larger glow engines work?

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       Post #: 63

RE: Norvel Engine FAQ - 3/6/2006 12:25:31 AM   
KidEpoxy



Posts: 3258
Joined: 10/14/2004
From: San Antonio, TX, USA
Status: offline 		I used a standard starter... Magnum I think... and just took the rubber cone grabber out and put it back in backwards. That way there is a small hole to center the 074 and shove it hard against the prop. Aint pretty, but works like a charm

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Optional MA is part of AMA history, we can go optional AGAIN if we just say so

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