RE: Warning about co-ax heli design limitation - Megatech skirts the issue

RE: Warning about co-ax heli design limitation - Megatech skirts the issue
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RE: Warning about co-ax heli design limitation - Mega... - 1/23/2006 2:09:13 PM

OttoNP

Posts: 142
Joined: 1/9/2006
From: , MI, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: davori
How would you like a model rocket filled with nitroglycerin explode while you're setting it up on the launch pad just because its "fun" to launch rockets with nitro.

And do you seriously think printing the warning on the back of coffee cups will cost a lot? They don't print the regular graphics, then go back and print the warning. They do it all at roughly the same time.

I would like to play with a rocket filled with nitroglycerin but can not because too many dumb people would blow themselves up and sue. And I sure would like that extension cord idea as well, but thanks to liability I can't have it. Wonder how long guns and tools/saws will be around?

_____________________________

Colorado Rocks Test Pilot - http://bladecp.corocks.com/

(in reply to davori)

Post #: 51

RE: Warning about co-ax heli design limitation - Megat... - 1/23/2006 7:44:08 PM

MBRC

Posts: 7
Joined: 1/22/2006
From: , NC, USA
Status: offline

The secret of the Horsefly’s incredible stability is found in its coaxial (twin rotor) design. The Horsefly’s over and under twin main rotor-blades are counter-rotating. The two rotors, being equal in size and mass and are moving in opposite directions which cancel out each other’s torque force. With conventional single-rotor helicopters this torque force is huge and constantly changing with throttle changes—making them difficult to control.

The Horsefly is far from conventional! With two main rotors of the same size and pitch, rotating in opposite directions, the torque force problem simply disappears! You will be able to take-off, land, hover, and fly up, down, backwards, forwards, left and right with the greatest of ease. Horsefly’s coaxial twin main-rotor design makes it inherently extremely stable—and the easiest helicopter ever to fly.

congratulations on your purchase of a megatech horsefly. the coaxial counter-rotating system makes the horsefly especially stable while hovering and turning. flying has never been more fun! get ready to launch into a new world of flying excitement!
your new horsefly comes completely assembled and ready to fly through the air. simply charge the battery and take off on your new adventure.

a new rc helo pilot reading this about the model he just bought should have no reservations about flying fast forward. i would expect to be able to fly through the air in any direction with the greatest of ease, because, megatech claims the design is
inherently extremely stable.

(in reply to combatman)

Post #: 52

RE: Warning about co-ax heli design limitation - Mega... - 1/23/2006 8:10:17 PM

combatman

Posts: 214
Joined: 12/23/2002
From: Palmyra, NJ, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Butuz

Can I just ask combatman.

Have you tried doing a loop the loop yet? Or a barrel roll? How about an inverted auto landing?

Just wondering. It is an R/C Helicopter after all, and it probably says nothing in the manual about not doing those. Why not give them a go?

Cheers

Butuz

Wow, this has escalated into an interesting story about me suing a company for product liability, which is not the case. It's been kinda like an online grapevine where the initial story got severely warped by overzealous preachers.

No Butuz, I did not try those maneuvers. Would you consider a loop, barrel roll, or inverted flight advanced maneuvers? People on this forum thought I was crazy for attempting fast forward flight with this heli which, many have scolded, is "only for hovering". But, is it a "hover only" machine as I have been reminded numerous times? Read on...

On page 14 of the Megatech manual, there is a heading called "Advanced Flight Performance", where it says one can "increase the control throws as well as decrease the gyro gain". Now, mind you, I did NOT increase the throws for my fast forward flight attempt. If this is "only a hover machine" for beginners according to all you critics (and Megatech for that matter), then why have a special section on "Advanced Flight Performance" in the manual?

Are all the critics now going to insinuate that fast forward flight is above and beyond "Advanced Flight Performance", and furthermore that I should have taken "personal responsibility" to know that?

Clearly, Megatech has taken the stance of self contradiction. Now, if some of you want to discuss your stories of lawsuits and personal responsibility, then find a forum on litigation.

(in reply to Butuz)

Post #: 53

RE: Warning about co-ax heli design limitation - Meg... - 1/23/2006 8:21:38 PM

RogerRamjet

Posts: 25
Joined: 1/2/2005
From: West Caldwell, NJ, USA
Status: offline

For the record, the factory presets do NOT allow for lower and upper blade convergence since the rate throw is only 35%. If flown indoors or outdoors in no wind fast forward, there should not be a problem. So there is also no need to warn a Beginner about something that is not very likely to occur.

When an "experienced flyer" wants to fly outdoors when there is a wind to "battle" against, which is what originally started this thread, the rate throw has to be opened up a bit to allow for more lower rotor tilt. This is an adjustment that is made by the USER <cough cough>

This adjustment also now increases the risk of convergence. To prevent that, the controls must be worked in a pulse and not full forward since this will cause the blades to literally bend upwards too much as they thrust more air downward. So between the added blade bend and the added throw forward, one risks upper and lower blade contact.

Flyer Beware when you adjust the settings past the factory presets.

(in reply to MBRC)

Post #: 54

RE: Warning about co-ax heli design limitation - Meg... - 1/26/2006 7:26:10 PM

gadget01

Posts: 93
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: APO, AP, USA
Status: offline

The point of combatman's argument, which is what many of you are apparently disregarding, is that a representative of Megatech SAID that fast forward flight was too much to ask of this heli. Forward flight is a reasonable capability expectation of any heli. I agree if Megatech designed this heli for only slow forward flight or that the swashplate should only pitch to a limited degree to avoid an upper-lower blade collision, they should explicitly state this in the manual.

Mass-production with limited quality control is destined to distribute a few bad apples- that's just a statistical reality. It is reasonable to expect a margin of error in the "factory presets." This leaves the end-user of a product to fill a quality-control roll and ensure it performs as it should. So what is the solution? One idea might be for Megatech to say how far the swashplate should articulate given the known forward-flight limitations and make servo travel adjustments as necessary.

Just my $0.02

_____________________________

oooh, was that supposed to happen?

(in reply to RogerRamjet)

Post #: 55

RE: Warning about co-ax heli design limitation - Mega... - 1/27/2006 10:45:50 PM

combatman

Posts: 214
Joined: 12/23/2002
From: Palmyra, NJ, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: combatman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Butuz

Can I just ask combatman.

Have you tried doing a loop the loop yet? Or a barrel roll? How about an inverted auto landing?

Just wondering. It is an R/C Helicopter after all, and it probably says nothing in the manual about not doing those. Why not give them a go?

Cheers

Butuz

Wow, this has escalated into an interesting story about me suing a company for product liability, which is not the case. It's been kinda like an online grapevine where the initial story got severely warped by overzealous preachers.

No Butuz, I did not try those maneuvers. Would you consider a loop, barrel roll, or inverted flight advanced maneuvers? People on this forum thought I was crazy for attempting fast forward flight with this heli which, many have scolded, is "only for hovering". But, is it a "hover only" machine as I have been reminded numerous times? Read on...

On page 14 of the Megatech manual, there is a heading called "Advanced Flight Performance", where it says one can "increase the control throws as well as decrease the gyro gain". Now, mind you, I did NOT increase the throws for my fast forward flight attempt. If this is "only a hover machine" for beginners according to all you critics (and Megatech for that matter), then why have a special section on "Advanced Flight Performance" in the manual?

Are all the critics now going to insinuate that fast forward flight is above and beyond "Advanced Flight Performance", and furthermore that I should have taken "personal responsibility" to know that?

Clearly, Megatech has taken the stance of self contradiction. Now, if some of you want to discuss your stories of lawsuits and personal responsibility, then find a forum on litigation.

My point exactly, Gadget01.

One more interesting tidbit...

The Megatech Horsefly box says that this heli has "high torque motors for aggressive indoor and outdoor flying".

But now I am sure that the ranting preachers of "personal responsibility" will swarm together once again and lecture me that I should have known "aggressive indoor and outdoor flying" refers to "hovering" for beginners, and nothing more.

I suppose I should have exercised "personal responsibility" and known that too

(in reply to combatman)

Post #: 56

RE: Warning about co-ax heli design limitation - Meg... - 1/27/2006 10:59:00 PM

rjm1982

Posts: 1115
Joined: 2/9/2005
From: Chesapeake, VA, USA
Status: offline

It sais indoor and outdoor flying, but doesnt the manual say outdoors with no wind?

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I flew the wings off of my helicopter
aim: roosterjm2k2

(in reply to combatman)

Post #: 57

RE: Warning about co-ax heli design limitation - Meg... - 1/27/2006 11:20:40 PM

combatman

Posts: 214
Joined: 12/23/2002
From: Palmyra, NJ, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rjm1982

It sais indoor and outdoor flying, but doesnt the manual say outdoors with no wind?

RJM1982,

Yes, the manual did refer to flying it outside with absolutely no wind. If you and others were to carefully read my very first post, you will see that I referred to flying it outside on "one calm day".

In other words, there was no wind. That is why I took it outside to fly it.

As I mentioned before, raving lunatics twisted this post into my suing a company for product liability, and a whole lot of other bogus. Perhaps in someone's illogical monologue somewhere in this thread, he mischievously added wind to this whole scenario.

READ AGAIN: NO WIND.

(in reply to rjm1982)

Post #: 58

RE: Warning about co-ax heli design limitation - Meg... - 1/27/2006 11:52:10 PM

rjm1982

Posts: 1115
Joined: 2/9/2005
From: Chesapeake, VA, USA
Status: offline

Well, like was said before...with factory settings, the blades arent going to hit unless there in some kind of mechanical failure...

I flew one at the lhs today...and even though i didnt push it hard, the dude that works there got it in as fast forward flight as it would go and turned as hard as he could a couple of times...and nothing happened other than 5 or 6 grown men cringing waiting for it to explode...

_____________________________

I flew the wings off of my helicopter
aim: roosterjm2k2

(in reply to combatman)

Post #: 59

RE: Warning about co-ax heli design limitation - Meg... - 1/28/2006 12:45:38 AM

rooster77

Posts: 8
Joined: 12/27/2005
From: , AB, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline

The topic seems to have evolved from is it alright to market something with defects, to the current vein of- what the fella describes couldn't have happened.
I note the last message appears to quote this para from an earlier post-
"For the record, the factory presets do NOT allow for lower and upper blade convergence since the rate throw is only 35%. If flown indoors or outdoors in no wind fast forward, there should not be a problem. So there is also no need to warn a Beginner about something that is not very likely to occur."
The same para stating DO NOT ALLOW, shortly followed by NOT LIKELY.... indicates a curious degree of uncertainty in that absolute statement.
I reckon we may be able to resolve the issue by having a poll- how many folks that weren't there will swear that something did or didn't happen, since it appears many folks aren't prepared to take the word of the person that was there and wrote about it.

A similar way of folks thinking subjectively is often seen here in answers to folks seeking solutions. Sometimes a cluster of folks pop up boldly stating... THIS is the situation... because such a situation happened to me. Often they describe very different faults and solutions.

Personally, I don't believe sharks can be a threat to humans, because I've never been bitten on the arse by a shark. I also don't believe in God, because I've never met him/ her... I'm still unsure about the moon, because though I've seen it, I've never walked on it.
cheers
boofhead

(in reply to rjm1982)

Post #: 60

RE: Warning about co-ax heli design limitation - Meg... - 1/28/2006 6:38:29 PM

RogerRamjet

Posts: 25
Joined: 1/2/2005
From: West Caldwell, NJ, USA
Status: offline

I think it would benefit everyone of Combatman started from the beginning and told everyone the sequence of events and his communications with Megatech...from the first phone call to their Tech dept.

(in reply to rooster77)

Post #: 61

RE: Warning about co-ax heli design limitation - Meg... - 1/28/2006 6:54:20 PM

gadget01

Posts: 93
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: APO, AP, USA
Status: offline

The beginning is still there.... go to the top of page 1

_____________________________

oooh, was that supposed to happen?

(in reply to RogerRamjet)

Post #: 62

RE: Warning about co-ax heli design limitation - Meg... - 1/29/2006 2:09:58 AM

RogerRamjet

Posts: 25
Joined: 1/2/2005
From: West Caldwell, NJ, USA
Status: offline

Nice try Gadget...my point is that there is more to this story than the first post.

(in reply to gadget01)

Post #: 63

RE: Warning about co-ax heli design limitation - Meg... - 1/29/2006 3:09:20 AM

rooster77

Posts: 8
Joined: 12/27/2005
From: , AB, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline

Clearly there's more than meets the eye.

RogerRamjet, I note earlier in this thread you have posted

quote:

For what it's worth, here's my opinion on this: first of all, I'm a Retailer and I sell a lot of Megatech products with very few complaints from customers.

and

quote:

I also know that the tech's at Megatech are very helpful and any customer that I've sent to them for service has not only gotten good advice and replacement parts, but they also often include free extras to offset shipping costs. If you come at them aggressively, they'll be less likely to do you a favor...just like anyone else.

I'm not suggesting from the above that you are posting with an ulterior motive, but you are saying that you know something further about the matter than Combatman posted. If it is something that occurred between Combatman and yourself, then clearly you are qualified to comment further (and now would be a good time to make that comment). If it is something that Megatech has communicated to you, which you didn't see or hear, then most folks would consider that hearsay, and wouldn't be repeating it. (given that if folks were aware it was hearsay, all you are adding is "I trust that person"

Personally, I'd be far more comfortable if someone with a business related to a topic could make that fact obvious on every post like various other forums (it may be that this forum doesn't permit it). I reckon it would be wonderful for the trade of respectable and respectful business.
This thread has had a plethora of reasons put forward why Combatman's original post is not reasonable. It seems that when one point faces debate then an unrelated one will appear. (eg once you open it, bad luck.... it's a toy, what do you expect.... it must have been flown in wind.... it shouldn't be flown aggressively.... he must have tampered with settings...)
If folks believe some of what they have posted, I'd love to sell them some junk from my backyard.
cheers
boofhead

(in reply to RogerRamjet)