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Weston Magnum - Destroyed on First Flight! - 7/15/2003 5:09 PM   
Gricey



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From: Dublin, IRELAND
Status: offline 		mpriestly, you wait until your engine is run in, mine is getting faster and faster. I gave up after 1 flight on Sunday, bit of a wimp i know but this is a plane that you just have to feel right everytime you fly it to make sure it comes down again in 1 piece.


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Weston Magnum - Destroyed on First Flight! - 7/16/2003 12:10 AM   
Cactus.



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Status: offline 		LOL ok, close enough that you CANT! move your head quick enough, just make sure it's not still in a slight dive when it goes past you
theres a nice video on my site of a close flypast. thing is, i was concentrating on the second one

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Weston Magnum - Destroyed on First Flight! - 7/16/2003 1:30 AM   
mpriestley



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Status: offline 		Gricer, Dont feel bad, I hung up my pin after the first flight on sunday as well, I decided I would let that one sink in.

Gooood stuff I tell you good stuff.

Phil, I have tried that video a couple of times but cant seem to get it to work.

Question for you guys, do you know the original length of the pipe, I read that for the 8/8 apc prop you will want to take 1 inch off of the pipe, I purchased mine in mid-build and do not know if the pipe is original length or not.

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Weston Magnum - Destroyed on First Flight! - 7/16/2003 1:51 AM   
Cactus.



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Status: offline 		try downloading the codec, you can find the link on the top of the movie page. also if it failed once your computer rembembers how big that file was, it will always fail if it didn't fully load.
download the codec, click the link, it'll load up a new page, it takes a while.
the length here is almost! on the bend

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Weston Magnum - Destroyed on First Flight! - 7/16/2003 3:49 AM   
wildnloose


 

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Status: offline 		If you are using IE 6 and cannot play the videos on phillybabys' website, check the following area...

From the menu at the top of the window; click Tools, Internet Options, Advanced. Under the Multimedia group, make sure that Play sounds in web pages and Play videos in web pages are checked. That is one problem I had...

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Weston Magnum - Destroyed on First Flight! - 7/16/2003 3:52 AM   
Rudeboy



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Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by mpriestley
Gricer, Dont feel bad, I hung up my pin after the first flight on sunday as well, I decided I would let that one sink in.

Gooood stuff I tell you good stuff.

Phil, I have tried that video a couple of times but cant seem to get it to work.

Question for you guys, do you know the original length of the pipe, I read that for the 8/8 apc prop you will want to take 1 inch off of the pipe, I purchased mine in mid-build and do not know if the pipe is original length or not. [/QUOTE]


When the header is at stock length there will be about 1" (slightly less on mine) of straight tube between the silicone coupler and where the bend starts...

Shortening the pipe 1 whole inch was a bit optimistic on my engine...
I was only able to do that without frying the engine after I shimmed the head up 0.3mm... But now it SCREAMS!!

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Weston Magnum - Destroyed on First Flight! - 7/16/2003 4:47 AM   
mpriestley



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Status: offline 		Ok, so do I have to shim the head. What is deal with shimming the head. I dont like the idea are there other options, different plug etc... Are most of you guys running the 8/8 apc?

Thank you for the advise Rudeboy

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Weston Magnum - Destroyed on First Flight! - 7/16/2003 6:15 AM   
Rudeboy



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Status: offline 		Well... apparently I am the only one here who's shimmed the head...

There are people here that claim getting up to 30 flights out of an Enya 3 plug...

A plug that hot doesn't even last 30 seconds in my engine... not on FAI fuel, and not on nitro fuel, even with the header uncut...

I basically tried everything else before I started shimming, and nothing worked. Hot plugs, cold plugs, hot fuel, cold fuel, changing the pipe length... I even ran it without the pipe once here in the bachyard, and it was still killing plugs...

I really don't know what caused this. Maybe my the top of my cilinder sleeve is machined down too much, maybe the head sits deeper in the cilinder... I don't know, all I know is that I had to lower the compression to get this engine to run like it should.

So I say run your engine like it is, on a cold plug and 10% fuel. If it doesn't kill plugs, by all means, leave it like it is...
But when you have burnt the amount of plugs I have, you start looking for solutions...:p (this thing has cost me a lot of money in plugs)

The funny part is that I knew it was over compressed, but I thought I was doing something wrong because nobody here on RCU has/had to shim the head up. That's why I waited so long before I started experimenting with shims...

I run the 8x8 APC... I can't get the engine to rev up like it should on an 8x9...
Someone else here said he got 21500 on the ground on an 8x9... If you can get it to put out that kind of power, then use the 8x9...
I really don't bother with ground rpm measurements... all that counts for me is how fast the plane is going. And I get the most speed with the 8x8... plain and simple.

Just see how yours does, and go from there...

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Weston Magnum - Destroyed on First Flight! - 7/16/2003 6:22 AM   
mpriestley



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Status: offline 		Good advise there buddy,

I guess with only one flight I need more experience on the engine before I do anything.

My first flight was on an os 8 and it is still good. broke it in on the same plug.

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Weston Magnum - Destroyed on First Flight! - 7/16/2003 6:33 AM   
Rudeboy



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From: Bejing, BELGIUM
Status: offline 		I already said this in some other post:

I tried an OS 8 plug last week too, just out of curiousity... I started the engine, went to full throttle and idle 3 times to dial the needle in, shut it down and examined the plug... The glow coil was already very distorted ... that plug wouldn't have lasted half a tank...
And all this was with already one extra shim under the head...

That's what I mean by running your engine and seeing how it does... because yours obviously reacts different than mine...

Maybe it has something to do with altitude too... I'm close to sea level, so my engine gets more oxygen compared to people who live like 3000 feet ASL...

I dunno...

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Weston Magnum - Destroyed on First Flight! - 7/16/2003 6:44 AM   
mpriestley



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Status: offline 		I will take a look at my plug and see what it looks like. I did run a bit on the rich side but I will let you know tomorrow.

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Re: - 7/16/2003 8:01 AM   
heligoode1



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Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by mpriestley
Ok, so do I have to shim the head. What is deal with shimming the head. I dont like the idea are there other options, different plug etc... Are most of you guys running the 8/8 apc?

Thank you for the advise Rudeboy [/QUOTE]

The reason you have to shim the pipe, or the header is, if you put a tach on the prop to tell how fast it is going, you can start pushing the pipe in and your r.p.m. will increase. This is called tuning. If you have ever seen a properly tuned engine, when it comes racing by, it has a high pitch whistle sound. In order to get the pipe properly tuned in(on the Westeurotech engine and pipe) you have to shorten the distance between the exhaust port of the engine and the end of the pipe. In order to get the engine "on the pipe" or optimum performance, you have to shorten the distance shorter than the stock header will allow. That is why we are cutting down either the header, pipe, or both.

Trust me you haven't seen performance until that little engine is broke in, and it is on the pipe. However the engine won't get "on the pipe unless you have the mixture set right.

Click on my gallery and look at my setup with a BVM mixture control. NOW THAT WILL GET IT FLYING BAD *$#@!!!


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Weston Magnum - Destroyed on First Flight! - 7/16/2003 8:07 AM   
heligoode1



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From: Rockwall, TX, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rudeboy
I already said this in some other post:

I tried an OS 8 plug last week too, just out of curiousity... I started the engine, went to full throttle and idle 3 times to dial the needle in, shut it down and examined the plug...



For High rev engines you need to use a plug designed for high rev use, such as a car engine.

Try a McCoy #9. I have had one in my engine and I have logged about 15 flights on that one plug.

Also, Car engines are high rev engines. If any of you guys want cheap, fast, and fuel efficient, buy one of these small planes requiring a .10 size engine. Put just about any .15 size car engine in it, and hold on to your shorts. Car engines spin as high as 43,000 r.p.m. that I have seen


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Re: Re: - 7/16/2003 8:11 AM   
heligoode1



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Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by heligoode1
The reason you have to shim the pipe, or the header is,

Sorry read that wrong, I ment cut the header down, not shim.


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Re: Re: - 7/16/2003 8:13 AM   
Rudeboy



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From: Bejing, BELGIUM
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by heligoode1
In order to get the engine "on the pipe" or optimum performance, you have to shorten the distance shorter than the stock header will allow. That is why we are cutting down either the header, pipe, or both.

Trust me you haven't seen performance until that little engine is broke in, and it is on the pipe. [/QUOTE]


I believe you are right... I think there is more to be had...

However, before I had raised the head the engine started to run hot after I had shortened the header about 20 mm (about all you can get out of that header).

Now I have lowered compression so that the plugs stay in one piece for a few flights and the engine doesn't run hot anymore I am ready to start tuning that pipe correctly.

It will take some time though and a lot of flight testing to get it completely dialed in...
That's what I love about this plane: it was going fast the way it came, but with every small modification I make I get a few more MPH...

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Weston Magnum - Destroyed on First Flight! - 7/16/2003 8:15 AM   
Rudeboy



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From: Bejing, BELGIUM
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by heligoode1
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rudeboy
I already said this in some other post:

I tried an OS 8 plug last week too, just out of curiousity... I started the engine, went to full throttle and idle 3 times to dial the needle in, shut it down and examined the plug...



For High rev engines you need to use a plug designed for high rev use, such as a car engine.

Try a McCoy #9. I have had one in my engine and I have logged about 15 flights on that one plug.

Also, Car engines are high rev engines. If any of you guys want cheap, fast, and fuel efficient, buy one of these small planes requiring a .10 size engine. Put just about any .15 size car engine in it, and hold on to your shorts. Car engines spin as high as 43,000 r.p.m. that I have seen [/QUOTE]

That's why I'm running Rossi R8 plugs...

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Re: Re: Re: - 7/16/2003 8:24 AM   
heligoode1



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Status: offline 		Now I have lowered compression so that the plugs stay in one piece for a few flights and the engine doesn't run hot anymore I am ready to start tuning that pipe correctly.

Keep in mind this engine is basically a ducted fan engine. Most ducted fan guys (that I know of) run 10% nitro with 23 percent oil.
I run Powermaster 15%nitro Low Viscosity 23% oil in my heli, magnum, and my BVM 91 ducted fan in an Aggressor II. That fuel allows you to lean the engine out without overheating.

One thing I do after each landing on the Magnum is pick it up, and put my hand on the head. It should feel warm enough that after 2-3 seconds, you want to remove your hand without burning it.

I have owned 2 magnums running 8x8 props, low viscos fuel, and have had absolutely no problems except forgetting (one time) to plug the aileron servo in. Don't get me started on that I wanted to beat myself up!


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Re: Re: Re: - 7/16/2003 8:25 AM   
John A


 

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From: Slidell, LA,
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rudeboy
I believe you are right... I think there is more to be had...

However, before I had raised the head the engine started to run hot after I had shortened the header about 20 mm (about all you can get out of that header).

Now I have lowered compression so that the plugs stay in one piece for a few flights and the engine doesn't run hot anymore I am ready to start tuning that pipe correctly.

[/QUOTE]

You need to shorten the pipe in small steps to get the right length. Take a tach reading, then shorten 1/4". If you pick up RPM's, then take out another 1/4". Repeat until revs hold, not drop. If rev's drop, you've taken off too much, and plug life will suffer. Note that pipe length changes with RPM, so every prop change will need a different length pipe. Alan's R/C links has a couple links to pipe tuning.

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Weston Magnum - Destroyed on First Flight! - 7/16/2003 8:30 AM   
ChuckAuger



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Status: offline 		Actually if you are going for speed you can shorten past where the RPM drops and tune for unloaded RPM. I wouldn't try it if I was new to pipe tuning..it will make the needle a little hard to set until you get the hang of it..and more than glow plugs will suffer.


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Weston Magnum - Destroyed on First Flight! - 7/16/2003 8:31 AM   
Rudeboy



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Status: offline 		23% oil?

I started on 20% for break in, went to 18% for the first few weeks, and I am now running 15% oil (2/3 synth-1/3 castor) as advised by Weston UK and some other fliers here on RCU...

The engine seems to do just fine on this mix... I don't know about wear though... but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it

The liner still looks brand new (I can still see the honing marks), just the top end (say the top 1/4" of the piston stroke) looks slightly used.

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Weston Magnum - Destroyed on First Flight! - 7/16/2003 8:35 AM   
Rudeboy



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From: Bejing, BELGIUM
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by ChuckAuger
Actually if you are going for speed you can shorten past where the RPM drops and tune for unloaded RPM. I wouldn't try it if I was new to pipe tuning..it will make the needle a little hard to set until you get the hang of it..and more than glow plugs will suffer. [/QUOTE]

Before I lowered compression I had already set the pipe to compensate for unloading in the air, and I must admit it fooled me a couple of times... I had set the needle too rich on the ground and it loaded up when flying...

Now the engine is revving higher, and I'm going to have to retune the whole thing...

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Weston Magnum - Destroyed on First Flight! - 7/16/2003 3:59 PM   
Gricey



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Status: offline 		hi Rudeboy,

Sounds like your engine has the wrong piston, rod or crank fitted. I don't know anyone else that has had to go through so many plugs.... I am still running the one that came with it, ran it in on it and have flown with it, it must have 20 tanks and looks slightly distorted but no ignition/timing errors to speak of so far.

Who knows maybe they threw in a t1 rod by mistake lol :-) but then again, if it works now then that's the main thing right?


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Weston Magnum - Destroyed on First Flight! - 7/17/2003 12:48 AM   
Cactus.



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Status: offline 		we run at sea level and plugs last a while, not that you dont keep a few spare. Firepower F2's are used here with 10 prosynth which has a cooling agent in it ( which must help )
i dont know where this 21K figure comes from, i saw 19.3 from a 8x8 here giving about 185mph on the flat

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Weston Magnum - Destroyed on First Flight! - 7/17/2003 7:35 AM   
Rudeboy



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From: Bejing, BELGIUM
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gricey
hi Rudeboy,

Sounds like your engine has the wrong piston, rod or crank fitted. I don't know anyone else that has had to go through so many plugs.... I am still running the one that came with it, ran it in on it and have flown with it, it must have 20 tanks and looks slightly distorted but no ignition/timing errors to speak of so far.

Who knows maybe they threw in a t1 rod by mistake lol :-) but then again, if it works now then that's the main thing right? [/QUOTE]

I'm starting to wonder too... something MUST be different.
Besides, most people AREN'T using Prosynth fuel, and get satisfactory results.

To break in the engine, I ran 1.5 tank of fuel through it at home, before I went to the field to maiden the plane. When I arrived at the field the engine wouldn't start... the PP7 plug that was supplied with the engine was already burned out...

But anyway, the engine runs like it is supposed to now, so I'm happy. And I've ordered in a nice stock of Rossi R8 plugs, so I'm ready to rock and roll now...:p

Philly, I'm pretty sure my engine does way more than 19300 on the 8x8... The local Quicky 500 with their Nelson engines get about 19000 with the props their using, and my engines' sound is just an octave higher... it must be doing at least 2k more...
I guess I'll just have to tach it to be sure...

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Weston Magnum - Destroyed on First Flight! - 7/18/2003 12:46 AM   
Cactus.



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From: CamborneCornwall, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		i know, i was shocked too, i was just about getting that from my GRRT and thats the wrong pipe, new one comming soon.
might be coz the pipe is short and dosn't come on on the ground

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