Red Tail Project TF P-51C with scale size 5.5" Spinner (Full Version)

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Spychalla Aircraft -> Red Tail Project TF P-51C with scale size 5.5" Spinner (1/22/2006 1:33:55 AM)

I think it very fitting to duplicate the Tuskeegee Airmen Red Tail Project P-51C Mustang. I respect the accomplishments of the Tuskeegee Airmen and applaude the efforts being taken to put the full size Mustang back in the air. As a fitting start I went on the Red Tail web site yesterday (http://www.redtail.org/) and made a donation to get my certificate and commemorative rivet. Ordered a bunch of shirts too so I can be dressed appropriately when I fly this bird. This is a really cool airplane that is rich in history and exciting to follow as they work to restore it to flying condition.

Mine will be constructed from the Top Flite ARC Giant Scale P-51D Kit. I will be making a true scale fiberglass cowl for a larger 5.5 inch aluminum spinner. I will also be constructing a fiberglass razor back as part of the modification. This will be a great project.

Leo



Spychalla Aircraft -> RE: Red Tail Project TF P-51C with scale size 5.5" Spinner (1/22/2006 1:45:59 AM)

Here is the start of the cowling form. I have positioned a 5.5 inch Tru-Turn Spinner ($185 by the way) in the proper position per 3 view drawings. The firewall had right thrust built in, so I have accomodated for that by setting a center line to the port side by about .150" at the firewall. This is a beautiful spinner. It will be a shame to paint it.

Leo



t_burley -> RE: Red Tail Project TF P-51C with scale size 5.5" Spinner (1/22/2006 2:28:51 AM)

very kewl project Leo. thanks for the link, I am also now a rivet sponsor for the Red Tail project



Ram-bro -> RE: Red Tail Project TF P-51C with scale size 5.5" Spinner (1/22/2006 6:08:25 AM)

Leo, you are a man on a mission. Thanks for the link also....



jmodguy -> RE: Red Tail Project TF P-51C with scale size 5.5" Spinner (1/22/2006 11:24:34 AM)

I thought about converting my tf gs P-51 to a B model also. How are you planning to deal with the leading edge extension on the wing? From what I understand this was only on the D model.
Thanks
Jeff



Spychalla Aircraft -> RE: Red Tail Project TF P-51C with scale size 5.5" Spinner (1/22/2006 2:16:13 PM)

Good for t_burley becoming a Red Tail supporter. It would be good to see this project raise awareness and benefit the rebuild.

Jeff,

Yes I understand that the D model has the wing extension at the root and that the B and C models do not. I gave this considerable thought and decided not to change it at all. It would create a major hack job of the wing that just isn't worth it. I am building this for the Fun Scale category at the NATS. Not everything needs to be perfect plus I would wager that 95% of modelers will never notice that subtle wing detail.

A more noticable feature that is easy to change is the wing dihederal being too flat on the TF kit. 3-views show a much more dramatic dihedral. I was able to get it up to around 8.25" at one tip by putting a 1/4" ply block on the top of the center wing spar and then cutting off the bottom to fit in the wing sockets. Pretty clean and strong. I now need to fill the wedge shape it created between the center two ribs. Not too big a problem.

Leo



Kmot -> RE: Red Tail Project TF P-51C with scale size 5.5" Spinner (1/22/2006 4:54:18 PM)

I bought a rivet too. They are tossing in a free hat at the moment too! [sm=thumbup.gif]



jmodguy -> RE: Red Tail Project TF P-51C with scale size 5.5" Spinner (1/22/2006 9:37:38 PM)

Good luck on the mod and thanks for the heads up on teh dihedral. Post pics of the nose mod plz!

Jeff



scalebirdman -> RE: Red Tail Project TF P-51C with scale size 5.5" Spinner (1/26/2006 10:46:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jmodguy

I thought about converting my tf gs P-51 to a B model also. How are you planning to deal with the leading edge extension on the wing? From what I understand this was only on the D model.
Thanks
Jeff


It's not that the B didn't have a crank in the leading edge, it just wasn't quite as pronounced as the D. You have to go to the lightweight late marks to find a wing without the leading edge extension.



ghendrix01 -> RE: Red Tail Project TF P-51C with scale size 5.5" Spinner (1/27/2006 12:12:43 AM)

As scalebirdman said, the B model had a similar wing to the D model, just not as pronounced. The only model P51 that had a straight leading edge was the H model. Jetco had a H model CL kit in the 60s. Wish I had not sold it although it flew like a rock.

George



Spychalla Aircraft -> RE: Red Tail Project TF P-51C with scale size 5.5" Spinner (1/28/2006 4:03:14 PM)

I joined the center section of the wings. Since I increased the dihederal I filled the bottom gap with hard balsa and sanded it flat ahead of time with a large flat sanding block. After some filling and touch-up I glassed the center section joint today. The materials used are 6 oz. 2 inch wide fiberglass tape and Bob Smith Finish Cure Epoxy. I love to pull a lot of positive "Gs" so I added a band of 2" glass on the bottom of the spar all the way out to 4 inches beyond the gear on each side. It was then time for the "Toilet Paper Trick". You lay your glass first. Wet it with the epoxy resin and spread with a credit card. Then you roll a toilet paper roll against it to soak up the excess resin and push the glass against the balsa. You don't roll out the paper, just roll against the roll and then peal the outer layer off periodically and toss it. There is no better way to glass. Wait till you see this done on the whole wing. When your done there is little to no sanding required before paint.

Leo



gary9648 -> RE: Red Tail Project TF P-51C with scale size 5.5" Spinner (1/28/2006 4:07:11 PM)

And here I thought that I was the only one still using the ol spare toilet paper trick. Excellent job! Glad to see more guts building Red Tails also. Can not wait to fly my "C" model this spring.
Gary Webb



Spychalla Aircraft -> RE: Red Tail Project TF P-51C with scale size 5.5" Spinner (1/29/2006 1:05:25 AM)

Good progress today. The cowling area is shaping up well. The chin scoop looks realistic compared to the photographs I am referencing. The top curve and spinner position look better than before. I drew the location for the exhaust stacks on the side. They will be longer and in a different position than the TF kit. They measure accurate per the 3-view. Kelvin at KELEO said that he will make a set of exhausts to fit this specific cowling modification. All I need to do is send him a fiberglass cowling set when I am done. He'll get the first one as far as I am concerned. That will be exciting if he can get them done by May 06. I'd like to use them in this bird.

Leo



Spychalla Aircraft -> RE: Red Tail Project TF P-51C with scale size 5.5" Spinner (7/6/2006 5:04:32 AM)

Back from 5 month delay on this project. I have new motivation and a deadline to a magazine editor to have a fiberglass cowl and "B" model conversion razor back kit in his hands by the first week of Sept. 06. So I'm at it again. I was having trouble with the air intake look on the cowl so I cut it off and started over. I created a new technique working with a male plug that I shaped first and then applied bondo around it and pulled it out. This is much better and it looks right. I have started to a light glass on the shape in plug preparation. I also ordered a second TF 1/5 RTC kit so that I can apply the parts to that airplane with out wrecking this plug. I never want to wreck the plug until I know my molds are good.

I also called Great Planes and confirmed that the "B" model canopies are still available. They are via special order for around $27 so I ordered 5 of them and will be using that canopy in the design of the back deck conversion. No reason to reinvent the wheel on that canopy until it is time to make the Malcomb Hood version which I can now see is inevitable considering the outcry of e-mails I get on the subject. The Malcomb Hood guys are just nuts.

Leo



Spychalla Aircraft -> RE: Red Tail Project TF P-51C with scale size 5.5" Spinner (2/2/2007 4:16:55 AM)

Back to it after 7 months. It feels good to work on the airplane again. I studied 3 views to determine the arc of the B & C model razor back. I came up with an arc of 141.5 inches for the scale of this TF model. I then used AutoCad to draw several perfect ellipse templates to create a structure that matched this back curve. I am very pleased with the shape. It matches the canopy well and with the Stab moved up on the fuse it tappers down right to the top of the stab in the back as it should. Next I will sheet it with 1/8" balsa. Leo



Ram-bro -> RE: Red Tail Project TF P-51C with scale size 5.5" Spinner (2/2/2007 4:31:09 AM)

glad to see you back on this Leo. How has the malcomb hood been comin? How about relocating the horizontal stab, was that a major mod? I have the TF p51 b kit and am looking forward to getting started on this kit and am not sure how far from scale the kit is. I even considered using the byron 4 blade drive unit....but the mods scaredme off.



scalebirdman -> RE: Red Tail Project TF P-51C with scale size 5.5" Spinner (2/2/2007 4:36:18 AM)

Looking great Leo. Watcha been up to these past months? I had raised my stab as well. After studying the 3 views I decided it needed to just lay on top of the "top" of the basic fuse structure, and mounted it there. Haven't gotten around to modifying the turtle deck (I have the B model kit) to match the 3 view yet.



Spychalla Aircraft -> RE: Red Tail Project TF P-51C with scale size 5.5" Spinner (2/5/2007 4:56:20 AM)

What have I been doing? I have all sorts of excuses, like starting a new job, increasing my commuting to 2.5 hours a day, building a high mpg car from two half wrecks, and somewhere in the middle of that I found time to make another 15 Fiberglass Wildcat Fuselages. Life can be tiring. I'd rather work on airplanes than cars, but I attached some car project photos for entertainment value. It turned out really well and I have put over 10,000 miles on in the last 3 months.

The Malcomb Hood is after my Mustang is done. I'll eventually do it; probably late summer 07. Moving the stab up on the TF Mustang was not hard at all and well worth the effort in terms of how much move scale the tail group looks. The TF kit is surprisingly accurate to the 3 view. Every dimension I scale in length, width, & height is always dead-on. It makes this modification project easy.

This weekend I sheeted the Razor Back. It looks nice. I now need to do some filler and glass this section. This is the basis for a plug from which I will make fiberglass parts. I plan to put all the fillets in the tail group as part of the component. That will also create a much more scale look with very little effort to achieve it.

Leo



Ram-bro -> RE: Red Tail Project TF P-51C with scale size 5.5" Spinner (2/5/2007 5:40:54 AM)

I lok forward to each and everyone of your posts. I never know what your coming out with. You might have to explain the car thing soome more. Which drawings are you using to make changes to your project?



scalebirdman -> RE: Red Tail Project TF P-51C with scale size 5.5" Spinner (2/5/2007 4:25:27 PM)

Your car is what the train modelers refer to as a "kitbash". What a project!. I feel the same way you do about the Top flite Mustang; with a little work ( ok, a good bit of work ) it could be a competitive model. I just think that as soon as the judges hear "Top flite", youd loose 10 pts.



Spychalla Aircraft -> RE: Red Tail Project TF P-51C with scale size 5.5" Spinner (2/6/2007 8:26:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: scalebirdman
...I feel the same way you do about the Top flite Mustang; with a little work ( ok, a good bit of work ) it could be a competitive model. I just think that as soon as the judges hear "Top flite", youd loose 10 pts.


I know what you mean regarding the judges and a "Top Flite" model. That is why this is a Fun Scale Expert class contender at best. Ironically for that same reason if you hint that you built from "Ziroli" plans you will definitely get a pass on all your scale outline points even though its not even close to the 3-View. Go-figure. I'd love to have someone rationalize that for me.

My goal on this Top Flite modification is for the airplane to sit at the field and have somebody ask, "Who's kit is that?... Is that one of those Wayne Siewert Aerotech Models Kit?" To which I will reply, No that is a $350 Top Flite ARC. Then their jaw will drop as they exclaim, "That don't look like a Top Flite Kit!". This would be the ultimate compliment because what it means is that a $350 kit bash was mistaken for a $2,600 true scale Top Gun level kit. It will happen. (Now don't anybody do that to me just to humor me). I want an honest appraisal.

Leo



v6goose -> RE: Red Tail Project TF P-51C with scale size 5.5" Spinner (2/6/2007 1:44:51 PM)

Ah Leo...

A man after my own heart. I too want the same thing from my TF P51 although i have gone the kit route after deciding (for better or worse) that there is too many things i want to change or the changes are too big.

Scale on a budget can be done, not easily, but as you said, fun scale is the way to go with this bird...

Good luck!

Goose



Spychalla Aircraft -> RE: Red Tail Project TF P-51C with scale size 5.5" Spinner (11/18/2007 4:01:17 PM)

8 Months since I posted. It is building season again here in WI. and it is time to get this Mustang done. Things are shaping up nicely. I acquired some scale exhaust from Tony Howard. They look very nice and I now plan to mold a 1/8" deep plateau into the cowling on each side to recess the exhaust stack base below the surface of the cowling for realism. Where it extends back on to the wood will just be cleared away down to the ply. You can see from the photos the stepped back edge where the cowling will join the wood fuse. The cowl will have a wood former glassed into the back that will be permanently bonded to the firewall of the plane for a seamless transition. Engine installation/removal will be performed through a bottom access hatch. The side cowl screens will make great access holes for the lower panel attachment screws. I have to figure a method for making these side screens. I thought of laser cut ply, but they have a curve to them so aluminum may be more appropriate. Side shots of Gentleman Jim and the Squadron Signal 3-view are being used for my scale reference. This cowling uses the TF kit reference lines for engine placement. They were accurate when using the 5.5" Spinner. Leo



BobH -> RE: Red Tail Project TF P-51C with scale size 5.5" Spinner (11/18/2007 5:05:23 PM)

Leo you might want to visit Radio shack and look at their photo etching stuff. I think the screens could be made from thin brass sheet and photo etched. Worth a look?



v6goose -> RE: Red Tail Project TF P-51C with scale size 5.5" Spinner (11/19/2007 1:21:46 PM)

Hi Leo...

Looking good.

Would you explain your comment "...This cowling uses the TF kit reference lines for engine placement. They were accurate when using the 5.5" Spinner.

Is this the TF supplied cowl? If so, how is it correct from a scale perspective?

I have read some threads that suggest the nose slopes towards the spinner ring too fast after the firewall and have seen people raise the engine 1/4" and add the 5 1/2" spinner to 'correct' this.

I'm waiting to hear from Fibreglass Specialties whether their cowl is corrected for this 'droop' or not.

Cheers!

Goose



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