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RE: ST2300 Testing and Experimenting - 11/9/2007 5:32:58 PM   
coupar



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From: Leesburg, VA, USA
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JL636:

I have the same Perry combination, pump and carb. The carb smoothed the transition problems on the 2300 and it was more consistent in the mid-range but it did'nt resolve the sudden dead sticks. I had to go to on board glow to get them elliminated.

(in reply to Cyclic Hardover)
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RE: ST2300 Testing and Experimenting - 11/10/2007 5:40:23 AM   
jeepman74


 

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I have stock carb and perry pump vp-20 I set the needles where they say you should and then tuned the pump till it sounded right have about 3 gal thru it now and the only deads I've had were due to no fuel I would set your high speed about 2.5 turns out and follow inst on pump If i remember right in is less fuel and out is more once it sounds good then work on low speed which will also affect the mid range and make sure carb is clean take both needles out and clean it it does not take much to screw it up and then run a good filter good luck

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RE: ST2300 Testing and Experimenting - 11/10/2007 5:49:58 AM   
jeepman74


 

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I have done one other thing a 7/8 in straight pipe sounds like a gasser Its on 15 percent power master altitude 2800 ft above sea level and a apc 18-10 at about 6900 its in a 140 cmp katana 11.5 pounds on a digatal scale with about 60 ft roll it will go vertical for about 150 feet wont quite hover but love th engine

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RE: ST2300 Testing and Experimenting - 11/10/2007 9:10:37 PM   
boex


 

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My stock carb, VP-30, OS-F combination is proving to be very reliable. But, yes I concur with Coupar that if you want a foolproof solution with the VP-30 add an on board glow driver. I had to disable mine because of weight considerations. The Ni-cad battery I was using was pretty heavy plus the switch.

However, if your plane can take the extra weight go for it. Just my 2 cents.

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RE: ST2300 Testing and Experimenting - 11/10/2007 9:58:29 PM   
Ed Cregger



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I'd dump the VP-30 and go to an Iron Bay regulator.

No way does the G2300 need onboard glow to run well with the Iron Bay regulator and an OS Type-F glow plug.

My biggest problem with the VP-30 was inconsistency. Mysterous excursions into La-La Land that would suddenly flood the engine out of nowhere and for no apparent reason. That is why I stopped using them long ago. The old Robart was a little better, but still not as reliable as a good pressurized tank and regulator.

Of course, we all know that the real answer to the problem is to buy a YS, or find an Enya or OS pumped engine of the proper size (for those not stuck running 23cc engine sizes). Still, the Iron Bay Regulator should do the trick just fine. Don't be tempted to pressurize the tank with muffler pressure, use the crankcase pressure option. Two-strokes generally do not generate enough exhaust pressure to operate these regulators properly. Most four-strokes do produce sufficient exhaust pressure to pressurize the fuel tank adequately. Most...<G>


Ed Cregger

< Message edited by Ed Cregger -- 11/12/2007 1:11:25 PM >



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RE: ST2300 Testing and Experimenting - 11/10/2007 10:08:21 PM   
buzzingb


 

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Yes, but you can't tell a person looking for an easy answer anything, so let them have their fun.

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RE: ST2300 Testing and Experimenting - 11/11/2007 12:12:39 AM   
JL636



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Coupar thanks for the reply. Did you have to make any adjustments to the Perry carb or did you use it straight out of the package? Adding a on board glow system would not be out of the question if it would provide a smooth mid range transition. I've spent a considerable amount if time trying to get this critter to run right and more money than I should have. Come hell or high water it will. I don't think I have ever put this much time and effort into getting a engine to run correctly, but run it will. As far as easy answers and not being able to tell a person anything I think the posts here reflect the exact opposite. Lots of good suggestions on how to get this problem child to run right and alot of things being tried. A easy answer would have been chuck it and cut your losses but I think these posts don't reflect that. My hat is off to those who won't thrown in the towel. Getting back to the on board glow system, which make and model proved to be the most effective? Any info will be appreciated. Joe




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RE: ST2300 Testing and Experimenting - 11/12/2007 12:27:40 AM   
coupar



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JL636:
I did no adjustments to the Perry carb or pump. I could'nt agree with you more on this engine. - See my previous responses. There is some great advice in this thread and people have put a great effort into it. Not 24 has some great recommendations and results. But for ME the answer was on board glow.

I could get the 2300 carb running pretty well, not great on the transition but OK. Then in the air, first flight, dead stick out of no where. I was using the stock muffler. I tried the easy stuff first, bored out the exhaust pressure tap a little, tried larger fuel tubing, used an F plug, tried a Fox magic plug, redid the fuel system completely, tried different fuels, ran 3 gallons of fuel through the engine. Engine ran fine on the ground but deadstick not of no where in the air. Nothing seemed to make a difference, though the 15% fuel seemed to make the engine rougher and heat up (??). Had all kinds of help and suggestions and tuning tweaks from other club guys all to no avail.

Then I tried spending real money. The Perry carb smoothed out the transitions but same problem. The pump did'nt seem to do anything. I actually went back and tried combinations of the other stuff with the Perry pump and carb. At times it seemed I was getting somewhere, the flights were getting longer, but the end was always a dead stick. I finally put on the on board and it was like magic. The engine ran flawlessly it has been running like that for months now. For ME that was the answer.

I would not suggest you spend any money on trying an on board glow. You might even be able to fasten a regular glow starter for a few flights to see how it does. The infuriating thing for me is that I tried the on board last and it was the cheapest solution! I just got a 6 amp switch (3 position dual switch in parallel) from Radio shack, a 4500 nimh sub c battery from cheapbatterypacks.com and drilled a hole through a small stand off to fasten to the plug with some of that automotive copper caulk to act as an insulator. The whole thing was less than $10, about 3ozs max. You could certainly try a more sophisticated on board glow driver but there never seemed to be any logic to when the engine would quit so I needed the glow 100% of the time. I am also not impressed with the efficiency of some of these glow drivers. If they waste the battery energy, that's less flying time. The 4500 nimh gets me about 2 hours of flying.

As you said, one of the things about this engine is it is so inconsistent! So everybody has different advice based on their success. If someone has an out of the box tune and go, it appears that people like me just dont know what they are doing. That could be right but for MY particular engine there seemed to be only one answer.

Good Luck!

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RE: ST2300 Testing and Experimenting - 11/12/2007 12:49:21 AM   
Not24



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Coupar,

Could you post your entire setup as it is now? Including fuel, prop, and tach numbers? I'll be playing around with the stock carb on mine this winter. I think I can make it run right with just the right tweaks to the barrel.

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RE: ST2300 Testing and Experimenting - 11/12/2007 12:53:26 AM   
Cyclic Hardover



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I have 4 years now on mine and its been fine, Only one deadstick and that was due to a muffler bolt comeing loose and it sucked air. I feel it's about dialing it in right.

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RE: ST2300 Testing and Experimenting - 11/12/2007 1:04:52 AM   
Not24



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cyclic Hardover

I feel it's about dialing it in right.


You are at 5000 feet. We are at or near sea level. I still think that's what is making your engine run as well as it does. The stock carbs are too big for sea level where we have so much more air. You are also running a 14-8 prop. I couldn't even begin to run a prop that small here. I could run one on a 1.08, but not a 1.40. At your altitude, you probably need the revs to get any thrust. Down here we don't need rpm, just good pulling larger props that turn a little slower. The only engine I know of that turn in the teens are 46's and smaller. Even a 61 is working well at 11-12k.

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RE: ST2300 Testing and Experimenting - 11/12/2007 4:16:14 PM   
coupar



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Not24: Happy to post setup. You have done such a great job on this thread. Hopefully you will come up with more.....

Model is Carl Goldberg Pitts Monster

24 oz tank. Dubro tank, regular fuel tubing.

Stock muffler but with a baffle added later to reduce noise (club rules) by 10dbs. Pressure tap not used in pump config. - blocked off.

Perry Carb, Tower Stock #LXDKY8 to work with Perry VP30 pump

Perry VP30 pump

16 x 8 Master Airscrew Classic prop at around 9200 RPM (getting better) - loosing abount 200 rpm because of baffle.

Fuel is Wildcat, 10% Nitro, 20% oil, (2% castor, 18% synthetic).

On board glow is simple switch and 4500 nimh battery.

Hope that is of value.

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RE: ST2300 Testing and Experimenting - 11/12/2007 5:08:41 PM   
Ed Cregger



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Coupar, 3 gallons is a lot of fuel if you are running a .40. It isn't diddly when you are running a 1.40. And, it could be that there was something unusually tight in your engine to boot. We have no way of knowing. It simply could be that your engine just needs some more running time in order to sweeten. My G2300 engines handled rough for the first several gallons of fuel and then smoothed out gradually as running time accumulated. I've never owned a ringed Super Tigre that ran any other way, though I have seen others with the same engine that ran great right out of the box. Luck of the draw, I guess.

What I am saying is that it isn't typical for this engine to require glow heat to prevent it from just suddenly deadsticking. That doesn't help you one little bit if your engine is deadsticking.

There is no harm done in running glow heat, so have at it. I bought several onboard ignition (glow) systems for my radial engines. I know that theoretically the engines, if "right", do not need such assistance once started, but it sure makes me feel better knowing that I have decreased the odds of experiencing a deadstick.

I missed it elsewhere, but is your engine mounted inverted?


Ed Cregger


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