RE: My 2300 only likes one prop  
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Tower Hobbies
Enter up to 4 keywords or Tower stock numbers
Logged in as Guest



Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
       

All Forums >> Glow Engines, Gas Engines, Fuel & Mfg Support Forums >> Glow Engines >> RE: My 2300 only likes one prop
Page: <<   < prev  4 5 [6] 7 8 9 10 11 12 13   next >   >>  

Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: My 2300 only likes one prop - 2/22/2006 11:33:16 PM   
Not24



Posts: 999
Joined: 12/7/2002
From: Gloucester, VA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: buzzingb

I am just not buying it. However, it is worth a try with the low nitro. Nitro is what is supposed to help transition. After I have tried all this other stuff like some on here what will it hurt to try low nitro.


Been doing a lot of thinking on this in the past 24 hours. The low nitro fuel is really starting to make sense to me. I have yet to try the low nitro, but these are my thoughts. When I did the plug test, I saw no appreciable difference in rpms. I took that to mean that there was no detonation, and all was well. Perhaps that theory was wrong, and there was detonation with all the plugs due to the high nitro. Remember, I used Powermaster 10%. The most recent tests were with a mixed gallon of fuel that could be somewhere between 15 and 18%. I observed an excessively wet exhaust throughout the rpm range. Is it possible that this fuel is too hot for this engine, and to peak the needles, it needs to be slobbery rich to prevent detonation? Also remember that I could never get into a nice four stroking rich mode. It would slow down appreciably, then flood out and try to quit. My guess here is that the low nitro will solve the vague high needle, and also assist in the transition. It will do this by running at a lower fuel flow setting, i.e., leaner needle settings. Also, what I perceived as leaning and sagging with the nose vertical might have actually been detonation. I know for a fact that this phenomena was worse with the higher nitro, and much better on the 10%. These european engines are designed for low nitro content fuels due to availability issues over there. It stands to reason that perhaps the engines are actually doing what they are supposed to do, and the carbs are woking exactly as designed, with no need for modifications. How, then, do I explain those engines that are running well on 15%? It is quite possible that they are doing fine also, when you factor in differences in altitude and temperature. Remember that we tend to run higher nitro in the summer to gain lost performance. Higher altitude may also be a variable that allows the higher nitro to not detonate. Please don't read this and believe it to be the truth or fact. It is only a theory and an opinion.

I bought some FAI fuel today to try this theory out on my engine. I also have the 5% Omega. I have made no further mods to the carb, and I should be able to get in some runs tomorrow. If anyone has any requests for things to try, let me know. I might be able to work them into my testing.

_____________________________

Fly it till you break it!

(in reply to buzzingb)
       Post #: 126

RE: My 2300 only likes one prop - 2/22/2006 11:43:12 PM   
buzzingb


 

Posts: 1507
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Bruce, MS, USA
Status: offline
I believe the 2300 will run on the low nitro but I don't think it will help the midrange. If I had some I would give it a try also just out of curiosity. Please report back after the low nitro test to let everyone know the results.

_____________________________

Buzz

(in reply to Not24)
       Post #: 127

RE: My 2300 only likes one prop - 2/23/2006 12:27:30 AM   
STG



Posts: 3498
Joined: 7/3/2003
From: New Richmond, WI, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Not24

When I did the plug test, I saw no appreciable difference in rpms. I took that to mean that there was no detonation, and all was well. Perhaps that theory was wrong, and there was detonation with all the plugs due to the high nitro.I bought some FAI fuel today to try this theory out on my engine. I also have the 5% Omega.

If anyone has any requests for things to try, let me know. I might be able to work them into my testing.


I was surprised by the results of your plug tests and took that to mean that you might want to try higher nitro or more compression as you seen almost no difference from cold to hot plug. When you try you low nitro test if you could pop in a your coldest plug as well to see if there is any difference? When you do can you check how much you need to move the needle to peak it?


My OS160's like 5%

Thanks.

_____________________________

Good Flying to you!
See Blog for RCU Video's

(in reply to Not24)
       Post #: 128

RE: My 2300 only likes one prop - 2/23/2006 2:09:49 AM   
Not24



Posts: 999
Joined: 12/7/2002
From: Gloucester, VA, USA
Status: offline
I'll do six test runs. Three fuels and two plugs with each. I'll get a peak rpm level, and shut down to record high needle settings. After that, I'll run the 0% and the F plug to see if I can set the carb up for idle and transition. The engine is very thirsty, and I can go through a half a gallon really quick. I'll try all the options with the 0% that I have available, including pump pressure, glow plug, needle settings, and spraybar rotation. If all goes well, I may try removing the pump and going back to the stock muffler. All tests will be on the 18-8, and everything will be documented. I'm off the rest of the week, partly because I want to get to the bottom of this really soon!

_____________________________

Fly it till you break it!

(in reply to STG)
       Post #: 129

RE: My 2300 only likes one prop - 2/23/2006 2:33:38 AM   
AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken



Posts: 580
Joined: 8/31/2002
From: Oak Ridge, NC, USA
Status: offline
Remove the pump, use the stock muffer and an "F" plug with the FAI fuel. Basically put it back to stock and see how it runs on no nitro.

(in reply to Not24)
       Post #: 130

RE: My 2300 only likes one prop - 2/23/2006 3:06:00 AM   
Not24



Posts: 999
Joined: 12/7/2002
From: Gloucester, VA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: UNBALLANCED

Remove the pump, use the stock muffer and an "F" plug with the FAI fuel. Basically put it back to stock and see how it runs on no nitro.


Have you run yours like this? When disconnecting the pump, can I just plug the pressure line from the crankcase, or do I need to replace the tap with a plug? Worried about the effects of leakage.

The bypass system really works well with this engine. For my application, I'll continue to fly with the pump due to the tank location. It makes the engine run much more consistently.

_____________________________

Fly it till you break it!

(in reply to AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken)
       Post #: 131

RE: My 2300 only likes one prop - 2/23/2006 3:58:31 PM   
buzzingb


 

Posts: 1507
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Bruce, MS, USA
Status: offline
If this engine won't run without the pump something is wrong. I believe the pump just complicates this situation beyond the understanding of all but the most knowledgable engine gurus. I fully believe that the carb situation must be correctected before adding a pump. The pump just adds problems that the engine didn't come with and can't be blamed on a pump. On the other hand if you run just the engine on the bench and can't get it to run you can say the engine/carb needs redesigning.

_____________________________

Buzz

(in reply to Not24)
       Post #: 132

RE: My 2300 only likes one prop - 2/23/2006 5:03:18 PM   
AllTheGoodNamesAreTaken



Posts: 580
Joined: 8/31/2002
From: Oak Ridge, NC, USA
Status: offline
You'll need to properly seal the crank case with a plug. Leakage will cause problems below 1/2 throttle.

(in reply to buzzingb)
       Post #: 133

RE: My 2300 only likes one prop - 2/23/2006 6:16:55 PM   
Not24



Posts: 999
Joined: 12/7/2002
From: Gloucester, VA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: buzzingb

If this engine won't run without the pump something is wrong. I believe the pump just complicates this situation beyond the understanding of all but the most knowledgable engine gurus. I fully believe that the carb situation must be correctected before adding a pump. The pump just adds problems that the engine didn't come with and can't be blamed on a pump. On the other hand if you run just the engine on the bench and can't get it to run you can say the engine/carb needs redesigning.


I agree with you on that. Perhaps I added the pump a little prematurely in my testing. It did run without it, but the problems I had seemed to be fuel starvation. The pump seemed like a logical fix. Since I experience some of the same things with the pump, then fuel starvation may have not been the culprit. I know I may sound like an idiot on here, but I think we are all getting a little something from all of this testing. I'll go ahead and remove the pump for this next set of engine runs. It will run well, I am sure. My only concern there is tank placement in the craft when I go back to flight tests.

_____________________________

Fly it till you break it!

(in reply to buzzingb)
       Post #: 134

RE: My 2300 only likes one prop - 2/23/2006 9:12:40 PM   
Not24



Posts: 999
Joined: 12/7/2002
From: Gloucester, VA, USA
Status: offline
Very disappointing day of testing. Went back to the stock configuration, and the tuning issues are still present. I can get a better high needle now, after doing a couple of mods to the nipple and transition slot, but adjusting this carb for good performance in it's entire operating range is impossible. The 0% fuel ran okay, but has a rough idle when compared to the 15%. As far as the needle settings go, I was out 2 turns on the high nitro, and 1.5 turns on both the 0 and 5% nitro. The 0 and 5 acted about the same as far as tuning and transition. There is a definite loss of power on the low nitro. I went from 8000 to 7500 rpm. The most disgusting thing it did on the 5% is, I could get it to run fine horizontally at full throttle, I could raise the nose to vertical with no loss of rpm. When I reduce to 3/4 throttle and raise the nose, it quit running like you pulled the fuel line off. This tells me that the metering slot needs some sort of fancy S shaped affair to it that I am not willing to figure out. Or, the slot in the spraybar has a different shape requirement to work properly. In any event, thanks for sticking with me throughout these trials. I had honestly hoped for a better outcome. I suppose I could put the pump back on and try one more tank of gas before completely giving up. I was very close at one point to being happy with it. I'll probably just get another carb and try that.

_____________________________

Fly it till you break it!

(in reply to Not24)
       Post #: 135

RE: My 2300 only likes one prop - 2/23/2006 9:33:40 PM   
STG



Posts: 3498
Joined: 7/3/2003
From: New Richmond, WI, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Not24

Very disappointing day of testing. Went back to the stock configuration, and the tuning issues are still present. I can get a better high needle now, after doing a couple of mods to the nipple and transition slot, but adjusting this carb for good performance in it's entire operating range is impossible. The 0% fuel ran okay, but has a rough idle when compared to the 15%. As far as the needle settings go, I was out 2 turns on the high nitro, and 1.5 turns on both the 0 and 5% nitro. The 0 and 5 acted about the same as far as tuning and transition. There is a definite loss of power on the low nitro. I went from 8000 to 7500 rpm. The most disgusting thing it did on the 5% is, I could get it to run fine horizontally at full throttle, I could raise the nose to vertical with no loss of rpm. When I reduce to 3/4 throttle and raise the nose, it quit running like you pulled the fuel line off. This tells me that the metering slot needs some sort of fancy S shaped affair to it that I am not willing to figure out. Or, the slot in the spraybar has a different shape requirement to work properly. In any event, thanks for sticking with me throughout these trials. I had honestly hoped for a better outcome. I suppose I could put the pump back on and try one more tank of gas before completely giving up. I was very close at one point to being happy with it. I'll probably just get another carb and try that.


Put the pump back on and give it a go (easy for me to say ). Although, I do wonder if the carb is at fault. My guess is that even if you get it running good with this stock carb that you would find that going to a better carb would make it run even better. I think most people would be happy with good and even consider it to be great. It depends how critical you are I guess--I want my 2 strokes to transition as well as my 4 stokes.

As far as the pump goes...I find that I am able to run my OS108 and 160FX leaner on both the high and low safely with the pump. I think that these settings help a snappy transition and response at all throttle settings. I have run the OS108, and 160FX without a pump and fuel tank just behind the firewall and have found I need to run things richer to keep the motor happy. So, I do see a significant improvement in performance running the pump. I also like the tank over CG.

No, I am not saying that the pump will work well on the ST2300 and stock carb. I am saying it does on the OS108 & OS160FX.





< Message edited by STG -- 2/23/2006 9:34:58 PM >


_____________________________

Good Flying to you!
See Blog for RCU Video's

(in reply to Not24)
       Post #: 136

RE: My 2300 only likes one prop - 2/23/2006 10:11:22 PM   
buzzingb


 

Posts: 1507
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Bruce, MS, USA
Status: offline
Buying the carb is on my do list this summer. I believe that this engine will respond to a good carb that meters the fuel correctly. Some on here have reported good results with the stock carb and that may be true but others are definitely having problems. If you look at the cost of the engine $125 and the cost of a new carb $75 it still is a good deal if it works. I like the cast iron cylinder and the power this engine puts out. Swinging that APC 17X6 in the air is sweet at just below going supersonic on the blade tips. I have posted in the past to see if anyone had tried the Jett carb with this engine but the last time I looked noone had reported anything.

_____________________________

Buzz

(in reply to STG)
       Post #: 137

RE: My 2300 only likes one prop - 2/23/2006 10:34:34 PM   
STG



Posts: 3498
Joined: 7/3/2003
From: New Richmond, WI, USA
Status: offline
I had one once. Can't report much, as I only broke the motor in (1/2 gal 5% Omega) and flew the plane(GSA 540) 2 test flights before I sold it. The 2300 Had the Jett carb and jett remote needle valve. I remember I had to restrict the exhaust (had bisson pitts) when breaking it in to get it to 4 stoke. I remember emailing Jett and asking them if this was OK. It had a Nelson Glow driver that worked great on break in--no matter how rich it was it never quit. I never leaned the motor out, but if I remember it was turning the 18x6 zinger in the low 8's on the test flights. Seemed to pull the 12 pound plane very hard.

Attachments
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize


_____________________________

Good Flying to you!
See Blog for RCU Video's

(in reply to buzzingb)