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FAI under siege - 1/30/2006 4:21:42 PM   
Ed Smith


 

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quote:

Seems the AMA is making changes to the funding and viability of FAI teams. Please review WC or AMA entries at C/L Speed forum at

http://forums.delphiforums.com/flyfast/start/ or

CL Racing forum at http://forums.delphiforums.com/CLRacing/start/.

I’m not sure how this will affect us but we should find out and make our views known to the AMA.


Now we are under attack. This is just the start! The bad guys are winning!

Ed S
       Post #: 1

RE: FAI under siege - 1/31/2006 11:56:38 AM   
Sharpy01



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Here's the post:

quote:

This a note that Bill Lee posted on the racing Forum



Hello, all;

The AMA, under the "leadership" of Dave Brown and Steve Kaluf, have re-written the AMA's rules for sending teams to World Championships. The net effect of the change is that the smaller disciplines will not only become UNfunded, but will be PREVENTED from participating in World Championships competition.

They have come up with two criteria that lead to a "points system". In order to be funded, a discipline must achieve a minimum level of points, and if the minimum is not achieved, not only will funding be eliminated from AMA, but "..that particular team will no longer particiapte in World Championships competition...". (This is a quote from the new rules.)

The two kinds of criteria where points may be obtained are associated with the performance of the individuals and the team at one of the last two World Championships, and level of participation in Team Selection finals over the past two cycles.

I will not repeat the detailed list of requirements for "points", but suffice to say that unless you have an individual or team finishing very high in the standings at a World Championships, or you have a large team selection finals, you are going to get not only the funding axe, but be PROHIBITED from attending!

And in Control Line, it's F2C (and F2A) that will get the axe!

I can sympathize with the continued erosion of FAI Team Support. What is UNTHINKABLE is that AMA would PROHIBIT attendance in a World Championships!

The end of F2C as we know it.

Bill

(PS: Not to mention they have eroded the AMA support by a further 40%. It won't be too long before ALL funding will be gone, no matter what the level of performance is!)


< Message edited by Sharpy01 -- 1/31/2006 11:57:31 AM >

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RE: FAI under siege - 1/31/2006 12:44:20 PM   
Ed Smith


 

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I do not have to much of a problem with association funding being based on levels of performance. However to prevent somebody from participating in a World Championship event, if that person is prepared to pay the whole amount, seems downright vindictive.

Ed S

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RE: FAI under siege - 1/31/2006 1:31:55 PM   
Jim_McIntyre



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ed Smith
... to prevent somebody from participating in a World Championship event, if that person is prepared to pay the whole amount, seems downright vindictive.


Agreed.


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RE: FAI under siege - 2/1/2006 5:24:47 PM   
Sharpy01



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As an outsider looking in, I guess I just don't accept that the FAI holds the patent on the ultimate competitive events.

If you polled most modellers, you would likely find that events like Top-gun, TOC, and the like hosted in North America would be the pinacle events of the modelling world. (This new CAC could potentially be one of these events if they could stop head-butting long enough.)

Why not foster, encourage and promote North American based events on all catgories as the best events, with the best pilots, and the best flying machines .............2nd to none?

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RE: FAI under siege - 2/1/2006 8:33:00 PM   
bla bla


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sharpy01

As an outsider looking in, I guess I just don't accept that the FAI holds the patent on the ultimate competitive events.

If you polled most modellers, you would likely find that events like Top-gun, TOC, and the like hosted in North America would be the pinacle events of the modelling world. (This new CAC could potentially be one of these events if they could stop head-butting long enough.)



Well yes the US modelers maybe. But comparing the likes of Top Gun " glitzy sugar and candy" type scale modeling with the FAI WC equivalent.... well, it's just humourous.
As is comparing an aerobatic-circus event like the TOC to FAI's F3A.


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RE: FAI under siege - 2/1/2006 9:13:10 PM   
Jim_McIntyre



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What bla bla said Marc.

One can claim to provide an "Olympic class" event... but it won't be the Olympics. All have their place, but only one is internationally recognised.

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RE: FAI under siege - 2/1/2006 9:41:49 PM   
can773



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sharpy01

TOC,


With an invitee's picked from the results of the F3A World Championships no less....you first had to be tops in FAI's event before you were invited to the TOC.

In simpler language...the TOC organizers looked to the FAI World Championships for the "top" pilots.

< Message edited by can773 -- 2/1/2006 9:44:11 PM >



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RE: FAI under siege - 2/1/2006 9:58:57 PM   
britbrat


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: can773

With an invitee's picked from the results of the F3A World Championships no less....you first had to be tops in FAI's event before you were invited to the TOC.

In simpler language...the TOC organizers looked to the FAI World Championships for the "top" pilots.



Hmmmm --- wasn't someone posting not-so-long ago that we aren't sending our best fliers to FAI events?

(in reply to can773)
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RE: FAI under siege - 2/1/2006 10:17:23 PM   
DocYates



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I don't want to get into all of the politics of the recent FAI debate, but last year while I was trying to help secure funding to send the US team to the World Jet Masters in Hungary, there was very little support. There was no financial support from the AMA period. At that time there were some individuals who even told me that jet pilots could fund their own way to Hunagry, which for the most part they did. There were some very generous supporters including RTI, BVM, the JPO, the RC Jets Forum, and others who contributed to the large amount of money it took to send the pilots and their planes to Hungary, but the largest percentage of money came out of the pilot's pockets. Let's face it, if you are going to attend an international event such as this, it is going to cost the pilots. Some can afford it, others cannot, and that is where the fund raising comes in. Some are more creative and successful at it than others. I hate to see the AMA back one group and not another, when the whole premise for the AMA is to support all modelers. I am sure I will stir up a hornet's nest here, and may not even understand the whole debate, but if the AMA is about to uniformly enforce this policy it may not be a bad thing.
Flame me if you must, but I see it from both sides.
Tommy

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RE: FAI under siege - 2/1/2006 10:18:38 PM   
Sharpy01



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quote:

ORIGINAL: bla bla


Well yes the US modelers maybe. But comparing the likes of Top Gun " glitzy sugar and candy" type scale modeling with the FAI WC equivalent.... well, it's just humourous.
As is comparing an aerobatic-circus event like the TOC to FAI's F3A.



.......lol.........Originally, I was going to post that there almost seems to be an aire of arrogance related to the FAI, but I'm glad I didn't as obviously this would have been incorrect.

(in reply to bla bla)
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RE: FAI under siege - 2/1/2006 11:09:20 PM   
Sharpy01



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quote:

ORIGINAL: DocYates

I don't want to get into all of the politics of the recent FAI debate, but last year while I was trying to help secure funding to send the US team to the World Jet Masters in Hungary, there was very little support. There was no financial support from the AMA period. At that time there were some individuals who even told me that jet pilots could fund their own way to Hunagry, which for the most part they did. There were some very generous supporters including RTI, BVM, the JPO, the RC Jets Forum, and others who contributed to the large amount of money it took to send the pilots and their planes to Hungary, but the largest percentage of money came out of the pilot's pockets. Let's face it, if you are going to attend an international event such as this, it is going to cost the pilots. Some can afford it, others cannot, and that is where the fund raising comes in. Some are more creative and successful at it than others. I hate to see the AMA back one group and not another, when the whole premise for the AMA is to support all modelers. I am sure I will stir up a hornet's nest here, and may not even understand the whole debate, but if the AMA is about to uniformly enforce this policy it may not be a bad thing.
Flame me if you must, but I see it from both sides.
Tommy


No argument here. Fairness across the spectrum is the only thing that will bring harmony. IMO

.........but that wouldn't be much fun.

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RE: FAI under siege - 2/2/2006 12:18:22 PM   
bla bla


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sharpy01

As an outsider looking in, I guess I just don't accept that the FAI holds the patent on the ultimate competitive events.



As you pointed out the FAI doesn't hold the patent on the ultimate competitive events. Just the international ones.
That's the point. They aren't run by the US, conforming to US rules and standards, keeping the local US market happy... and there are nothing wrong with the ones that do! But they're not international.

"An aire of arrogance related to the FAI" was very funny and totally incorrect. It's more an in your face, wall of ego driven Mega Arrogance!
And thats what drives people to participate... ask the US F3A team competitors Chip, Jason and Co... and these guys don't even win! It's that important to participate... so important to win that certain people within the AMA are desparately trying to change the rules so non US citizens can compete representing the US even though they're Argentinia! The madness never stops.

Ask a realy serious scale modeler if he'd choose either winning TG or F4C? The scary thing is that many of those fantastic TG scale models wouldn't even get past the gate... the rules and regulation are so strong. In fact the US has basically no world camp class players participating in that event.
They're famous name at home... but way down the score board abroad.

It's easy to knock the FAI... and complain about this ruling or that. The point is that they supply the most stringent, the most complex, the most competitive and demanding international events, world wide, period. The key words being: International & World Wide"

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RE: FAI under siege - 2/2/2006 2:37:54 PM   
Sharpy01



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quote:

ORIGINAL: bla bla


It's more an in your face, wall of ego driven Mega Arrogance!
And thats what drives people to participate... ask the US F3A team competitors Chip, Jason and Co... and these guys don't even win! It's that important to participate... so important to win that certain people within the AMA are desparately trying to change the rules so non US citizens can compete representing the US even though they're Argentinia! The madness never stops.

The point is that they supply the most stringent, the most complex, the most competitive and demanding international events, world wide, period.


It kind of helps to explain the lack of interest by most in that end of the spectrum as grunts like me still consider this a hobby and an escape from the pressures of the real world. I have no problem with those who take their passion for the hobby to whatever level they feel they need to go, but don't assume that grunts like myself feel the same sense of awe by someone else's choices. Nor, should that group assume they have entitlements to a higher percentage of a general model association's/organization's resources because of an "International" label.

However, you may assume some "envy" within the grunt ranks as we wish we had the sugar daddys that these top competitors must have to managed to be at every major event around the world.

(in reply to bla bla)
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RE: FAI under siege - 2/2/2006 3:20:07 PM   
DSLarkin


 

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quote:

last year while I was trying to help secure funding to send the US team to the World Jet Masters in Hungary, there was very little support. There was no financial support from the AMA period


I can understand this point of view. But the problem is that there is, as yet, no 'stand alone' category for jet competition in FAI World Champs events. If US modellers feel that there should be, then it is up to them to lobby the AMA to ensure that their reps to the FAI ensure that the FAI provides specifically for the jet flyer. While they are at it, they could work through Canadian jet flyers to have MAAC help. Until then, US jet models can compete, but only in the general R/C scale category and that of course, run them into some weight regulations which might be a problem.

When I was on the MAAC Board, I was certainly prepared to make an exception to the regular policy and support Canadian competitors competing in the World Jet event. Only trouble is that I believe our entrants went of their own volition and not afte