RE: Is dope & fabric covering dead?  
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Tower Hobbies
Enter up to 4 keywords or Tower stock numbers
Logged in as Guest



Users viewing this topic: none
    Search This Thread  
 
Printable Version

All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> Golden Age, Vintage & Antique RC >> RE: Is dope & fabric covering dead?
Page: <<   < prev  1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8   next >   >>  

Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Is dope & fabric covering dead? - 6/12/2009 3:59 PM   
MJD



Posts: 3510
Score: 105
Joined: 5/27/2003
Last Login: 11/8/2009
From: Orangeville, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		I still regularly use silkspan and nitrate dope on a variety of my models, even film covered, as I find hardly anything works more easily to stiffen and toughen up a lightweight part and provide a smooth and compatible surface for a variety of finishes. I cover many small models this way, then finish up with a couple of coats of prime and color, and still hit 8-9 ounces on some of my 1/2A's. It hs to be far lighter than filling and priming wood, not to mention it actually adds strength. I finished a 1/4" thick sheet balsa 1/2A racer wing with a D box of CF veil, then silkspan over the whole wing - man did it ever stiffen up! And it is so easy to apply and post finish it's a shame more people don't give it a whirl. Esp. if you buy your dope by the quart at an aircraft builder's supply to save some money. Nitrate dope is one of the more universally compatible base coats, and in fact has saved me from the odd finishing disaster by acting as an intermediary coat. I think CA might be the only thing that dries/cures faster..

MJD

_____________________________

Mikes RC - Home of a real 200mph Delta!
www.MikesRC.us

Hide Signatures

(in reply to H5487)
       Post #: 151

RE: Is dope & fabric covering dead? - 6/26/2009 4:41 AM   
Gremlin Castle


 

Posts: 1337
Score: 100
Joined: 2/9/2004
Last Login: 11/7/2009
From: Arlington, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Check out this link for a fresh dope and fabric job. It is a classic nitrate under butyrate applied over polyester dress liner.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_7846147/mpage_22/key_/tm.htm

_____________________________

Up elevator is not always your friend.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to H5487)
       Post #: 152

RE: Is dope & fabric covering dead? - 7/6/2009 1:20 AM   
psuguru


 

Posts: 203
Score: 110
Joined: 8/16/2007
Last Login: 11/6/2009
From: ChelmsfordEssex, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Here's a piccy of my Ben Buckle Super 60.
It was covered in spinnaker rip-stop nylon, stuck down with butyrate dope and then finished with yet more dope (about 5 thin coats I think) and 2 layers of Tuf-Kote (resin fuel-proofer)
OS FP35, s148 servos.
The model survived going through a tree at full chat. Can't see film covering putting up with that!

Attachments
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize 		Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize


_____________________________

The liver is Evil and must be punished.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to tweedy)
       Post #: 153

RE: Is dope & fabric covering dead? - 7/9/2009 1:44 AM   
KitBuilder



Posts: 617
Score: 110
Joined: 2/17/2007
Last Login: 11/7/2009
From: Palm Harbor, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Once covered how does one get the clean crisp paint lines. I'm going to be starting an Eindecker EIII soon and want to attempt a fabric covering fnish. I suppose I can use one the tex's with the sticky back but they're pretty expensive.. I'm looking at around 50 bucks for two rolls

< Message edited by KitBuilder -- 7/9/2009 1:45 AM >

_____________________________

Mike -
Kits are made to be bashed

Hide Signatures

(in reply to Waldopepperaxel)
       Post #: 154

RE: Is dope & fabric covering dead? - 7/9/2009 5:19 AM   
frequent flyer



Posts: 346
Score: 120
Joined: 2/17/2003
Last Login: 11/7/2009
From: Redondo Beach, CA, USA
Status: online 		I mask all with pin striping and then cover the rest with 3m blue masking tape and paper if needed. I air brush multiple coats with a fast drying reducer, and peal the tape back on itself before all has dried completly. Carefully. perfect line every time. 35 years experience has brought me to this method.

_____________________________

Don
FREQUENT FLYER, (WACO BROTHERHOOD # 91)

Hide Signatures

(in reply to KitBuilder)
       Post #: 155

RE: Is dope & fabric covering dead? - 7/9/2009 10:21 AM   
Allens1


 

Posts: 1
Score: 100
Joined: 7/9/2009
Last Login: 7/14/2009
From: Papakura, NEW ZEALAND
Status: offline 		Silk and dope is alive and well here in NZ too!  Attached are pictures of some of my models.  The large vintage is approx 2.7metre span.  The wing is the original built by designer in 1939.  I refurbished it taking out all the warps, fixing broken bits, and recovering in silk.  Built new fuselage - end result is a lovely floater, a joy to fly.  The pink/white model is a Thermal Thumber - wasdestroyed after radio failure but replacement almost finished.  The Tiger Moth is also nearly finished.  This is a quarter scale Flair kit.  Power is a Laser 150 four stroke. Covering on the TM is coverall.  Have been enjoying the read on this site. 



Attachments
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize 		Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize 		Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize


Hide Signatures

(in reply to psuguru)
       Post #: 156

RE: Is dope & fabric covering dead? - 7/9/2009 12:15 PM   
squeakalong


 

Posts: 735
Score: 115
Joined: 2/8/2008
Last Login: 10/3/2009
From: Interlochen, MI, USA
Status: offline 		Allens1..That Tiger Moth looks like it's going to be a beauty!! Hope you post a nice picture of the finished model.

Soft landings.

Joe

_____________________________

AMA 57750 Waco Brotherhood #114
Nosen Cessna 310 Club #22

Hide Signatures

(in reply to Allens1)
       Post #: 157

RE: Is dope & fabric covering dead? - 7/9/2009 4:23 PM   
psuguru


 

Posts: 203
Score: 110
Joined: 8/16/2007
Last Login: 11/6/2009
From: ChelmsfordEssex, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KitBuilder

Once covered how does one get the clean crisp paint lines. I'm going to be starting an Eindecker EIII soon and want to attempt a fabric covering fnish. I suppose I can use one the tex's with the sticky back but they're pretty expensive.. I'm looking at around 50 bucks for two rolls

Obtain low-tack masking tape from an auto factor or local hardware store. Duck Tape do a nice blue one that gives good lines.
I recomend that you seal the fabric first with several layers of shrinking dope. Apply intelligently so as not to introduce warping of the structure. Wash-out at the wingtips is usually a beneficial side effect of shrinking dope on open structures.
Then, when all is dry and smooth, apply the decorative base-coat using very thin paint, airbrushed on to a depth that just produces the colour you want. Mask significant areas of alternate colours (like the centre black on the Eindeker's Wing crosses).
When the base coat is dry, mask the edges of the alternate area and spray on that colour.
Before the alternate colour is completely dry, apply any pin striping using a brush at the colour boundary.
And before it has all completely cured, apply a clear finishing laquer over the whole model. This tends to reduce the steps at the colour boundaries. If the structure is sufficiently rigid, some judicious wet-and-dry can be applied at the boundaries too to remove ridges.

You can see that painting a model can be very involved and the work needs to be planned. In particular, the drying times of the paint need to be known.

When Hobbypoxy was available, I took 9 months to paint a model: 3 undercoats, 5 thin coats of 4 different colours and 2 finishing clear overcoats.
It made for a very pretty smoking hole!

_____________________________

The liver is Evil and must be punished.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to KitBuilder)
       Post #: 158

RE: Is dope & fabric covering dead? - 7/10/2009 5:01 PM   
ARUP


 

Posts: 86
Score: 100
Joined: 1/21/2007
Last Login: 11/7/2009
From: Taylorsville, KY, USA
Status: offline 		I lean toward the fabrics because the airplanes I like were covered in fabric. I will miss Supershrink Coverite when my supply runs out so will go with a Stits product or Sig Koverall to replace it. I still use tissue and silk on some smaller airplanes. Plastics films for quick and dirty but can be done nicely. Some of the best finishes I've seen are by scale control line guys- dope and silk- tissue, lots of elbo grease and TLC!

Hide Signatures

(in reply to H5487)
       Post #: 159

RE: Is dope & fabric covering dead? - 7/10/2009 5:08 PM   
ARUP


 

Posts: 86
Score: 100
Joined: 1/21/2007
Last Login: 11/7/2009
From: Taylorsville, KY, USA
Status: offline 		Hi Kitbuilder, the crosses on Eindekkers were hand painted using crude templates at the factory and were pretty much freehand painted 'to spec' in the field after repairs. Don't worry about making them perfect! I used a Sarpie to detail my E-III- see my Gallery. Consider Sig Koverall or a Stits product for yours. Good luck!

Hide Signatures

(in reply to KitBuilder)
       Post #: 160

RE: Is dope & fabric covering dead? - 7/11/2009 2:15 PM   
squeakalong


 

Posts: 735
Score: 115
Joined: 2/8/2008
Last Login: 10/3/2009
From: Interlochen, MI, USA
Status: offline 		Well, I'm curious now...with todays products is there a low odor method by which I can cover and paint a model in my basement without dangerous/smelly fumes taking over the house. I'd sure like to give it a go but after using iron-on material for decades I've lost my "feel" for the cover and paint method. Thanks.

Soft landings.

Joe

_____________________________

AMA 57750 Waco Brotherhood #114
Nosen Cessna 310 Club #22

Hide Signatures

(in reply to ARUP)
       Post #: 161

RE: Is dope & fabric covering dead? - 7/11/2009 11:55 PM   
WacoNut



Posts: 2402
Score: 105
Joined: 1/1/2005
Last Login: 11/7/2009
From: Blanchester, OH, USA
Status: offline 		You can apply the fabric with PolyC and fill the weave with it as well.
Latex paint is a good option. I apply it with an HVLP spray gun, you must thin the latex for spraying. It cleans up with water and there is no smell.
Anthony

_____________________________

WACO Brotherhood #30
It''s not the hours you put in It''s what you put into the hours.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to squeakalong)
       Post #: 162

RE: Is dope & fabric covering dead? - 7/12/2009 1:04 AM   
squeakalong


 

Posts: 735
Score: 115
Joined: 2/8/2008
Last Login: 10/3/2009
From: Interlochen, MI, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks, Anthony. Let me see if I have this correct: I can apply something like Koverall with MinWax PolyC and fill the weave with the same product. Then, as in your example, I'd paint with Latex paint (what is the ratio of paint to water for thinning?). What would I need to apply over the Latex paint to fuelproof the finish (I use 15% nitro fuels)? And, finally, what is an HVLP spraygun?

Soft landings.

Joe

_____________________________

AMA 57750 Waco Brotherhood #114
Nosen Cessna 310 Club #22

Hide Signatures

(in reply to WacoNut)
       Post #: 163

RE: Is dope & fabric covering dead? - 7/12/2009 11:33 PM   
WacoNut



Posts: 2402
Score: 105
Joined: 1/1/2005
Last Login: 11/7/2009
From: Blanchester, OH, USA
Status: offline 		Joe,
I have never used the PolyC to apply the fabric but I know guys who have, you can brush a coat onto the wood and let it dry then iron the fabic down to the PolyC. I prefer dope myself.
An HVLP gun is (High Volume_Low Pressure) You need to thin the latex 40-50%. I use regular cheap blue windshield washer fluid. I also add a cap full of Floetrol. You can get the Floetrol at Home Depot. It is made for conditioning latex for spraying.
If you are using nitro fuel you will need to fuel proof. I use Nelson Hobbies clear coat. It is also water based and sprays easily with an HVLP gun. You can get HVLP guns from Harbor Freight for about $30.
The great thing about latex is you can get custom mixed colors for about $15 a quart.
Hope this helps!!
Anthony

_____________________________

WACO Brotherhood #30
It''s not the hours you put in It''s what you put into the hours.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to squeakalong)
       Post #: 164

RE: Is dope & fabric covering dead? - 7/13/2009 1:04 AM   
pd1


 

Posts: 237
Score: 100
Joined: 11/24/2006
Last Login: 11/8/2009
From: noydb, MA, USA
Status: offline 		There's a person on wattflyer that did pretty good instructions on covering with the poly c.

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42439

Hide Signatures

(in reply to squeakalong)
       Post #: 165

RE: Is dope & fabric covering dead? - 7/13/2009 1:04 PM   
squeakalong


 

Posts: 735
Score: 115
Joined: 2/8/2008
Last Login: 10/3/2009
From: Interlochen, MI, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks, Anthony and pd1, for your help! I really appreciate the information and will give the procedure a try. There is a plan built Sig Astro-Hog that's all framed and ready to cover just a waiting on one of my build tables. I believe I'll try the red and white finish (as in the advertisements) and see how the model comes out.

Soft landings.

Joe

_____________________________

AMA 57750 Waco Brotherhood #114
Nosen Cessna 310 Club #22

Hide Signatures

(in reply to pd1)
       Post #: 166

RE: Is dope & fabric covering dead? - 7/13/2009 2:05 PM   
psuguru


 

Posts: 203
Score: 110
Joined: 8/16/2007
Last Login: 11/6/2009
From: ChelmsfordEssex, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WacoNut

Joe,
  then iron the fabic down to the PolyC. I prefer dope myself.

Anthony

Is the PolyC you are referring to a wallpaper adhesive? (It's called Polycell in the UK if it is)
Regards,
Carole



_____________________________

The liver is Evil and must be punished.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to WacoNut)
       Post #: 167

RE: Is dope & fabric covering dead? - 7/13/2009 10:54 PM   
WacoNut



Posts: 2402
Score: 105
Joined: 1/1/2005
Last Login: 11/7/2009
From: Blanchester, OH, USA
Status: offline 		No in the US it is PolyCrylic, it is a water based Polyurethane marketed by Minwax. Do a google search for Minwax Polycrylic.
Anthony

_____________________________

WACO Brotherhood #30
It''s not the hours you put in It''s what you put into the hours.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to psuguru)
       Post #: 168

RE: Is dope & fabric covering dead? - 7/15/2009 4:57 PM   
psuguru


 

Posts: 203
Score: 110
Joined: 8/16/2007
Last Login: 11/6/2009
From: ChelmsfordEssex, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Ta!


_____________________________

The liver is Evil and must be punished.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to WacoNut)
       Post #: 169

RE: Is dope & fabric covering dead? - 7/24/2009 3:47 PM   
CafeenMan



Posts: 3928
Score: 100
Joined: 1/19/2003
Last Login: 11/7/2009
From: Spring Hill, FL, USA
Status: offline 		This is a really good thread. I'm going to link to it from my site.

I just posted an article this past weekend on how to silk a wing. I didn't realize so many people were still using doped finishes. I never see any at my field.

Any of you silk and dope experts who see any glaring flaws in my article please let me know. This is the first time I've silked anything since about 1977 so I'm way out of practice.

http://www.airfieldmodels.com/information_source/how_to_articles_for_model_builders/finishing_techniques/silk_a_wing/index.htm

_____________________________

Work is what I do for the love of it. A job is how I pay for it. :)
Please visit AirfieldModels.com

Hide Signatures

(in reply to psuguru)
       Post #: 170

RE: Is dope & fabric covering dead? - 7/25/2009 2:20 PM   
WacoNut



Posts: 2402
Score: 105
Joined: 1/1/2005
Last Login: 11/7/2009
From: Blanchester, OH, USA
Status: offline 		Cafeenman,
I read thru your article and it looks good to me, I really enjoy your site and have found it usefull for some projects.
Thanks!!
Anthony

_____________________________

WACO Brotherhood #30
It''s not the hours you put in It''s what you put into the hours.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to CafeenMan)
       Post #: 171

RE: Is dope & fabric covering dead? - 7/25/2009 5:08 PM   
CafeenMan



Posts: 3928
Score: 100
Joined: 1/19/2003
Last Login: 11/7/2009
From: Spring Hill, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks Anthony,

What the article doesn't say is that I ended up stripping off all that silk. When I doped it, it turned almost orange and I REALLY didn't like the color. The articles were posted before that happened and I really wasn't expecting it.

I've sanded it all back down and have one more base coat of dope to apply. Then a little sanding and put on the new silk. That will be the last part of the article series and I'll explain what happened to the original silk so people aren't confused about why the wing changed color.

_____________________________

Work is what I do for the love of it. A job is how I pay for it. :)
Please visit AirfieldModels.com

Hide Signatures

(in reply to WacoNut)
       Post #: 172

RE: Is dope & fabric covering dead? - 7/25/2009 5:21 PM   
pd1


 

Posts: 237
Score: 100
Joined: 11/24/2006
Last Login: 11/8/2009
From: noydb, MA, USA
Status: offline 		OK that explains why you didn't go into actually applying dope to the silk.

Sorry about the color change on your silk. I used Ritt dye and got a very vivid red color.

Dyeing silk with Ritt.
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34917

I have also found that the silk from Thai Silk seems to be pre shrunk. There is very little shrinkage after it is applied.
Great for lightweight structures and over solid sheeted areas.

I found the silk from Dharma trading shrinks very well. I've fallen in love with the way it works.
It's also a very tight weave so not that many coats of dope are needed to fill the weave.

I went into covering and doping in these two build threads.
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35712
http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20546

Also, very nice web site.

Paul

Hide Signatures

(in reply to CafeenMan)
       Post #: 173

RE: Is dope & fabric covering dead? - 7/25/2009 5:31 PM   
CafeenMan



Posts: 3928
Score: 100
Joined: 1/19/2003
Last Login: 11/7/2009
From: Spring Hill, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Actually, the reason I didn't go into doping the wing was because I had a lot of things coming up and I had several new articles to post. I couldn't post any without posting all. So knowing that I might be delayed a month I decided to post what I had.

Then I did have time to dope the wing and was hoping to have the article finished this weekend. Instead I'm back to sealing the wing.

I noticed the silk didn't shrink that much as you mentioned. I said at the beginning of the article I've only used habotai silk but I think that's wrong. I have used Sig and K & B silk in the past and I assumed they were the same thing I bought from Thai Silks but they might be different.

The silk I'm using now seems to have a much tighter weave and it stays together very well.

Oh, and a great tip I discovered. Some of the weave had come slightly apart throughout the process and I thought I was stuck with it.

When I vacuumed the wing with a brush after the silk was applied I ran the brush along the span and it pulled most of the weave back together like it never happened. That was totally unexpected and a very nice surprise.

_____________________________

Work is what I do for the love of it. A job is how I pay for it. :)
Please visit AirfieldModels.com

Hide Signatures

(in reply to pd1)
       Post #: 174

RE: Is dope & fabric covering dead? - 8/10/2009 1:57 PM   
psuguru


 

Posts: 203
Score: 110
Joined: 8/16/2007
Last Login: 11/6/2009
From: ChelmsfordEssex, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: squeakalong

 basement      dangerous/smelly fumes

Joe


cellulose fumes.
Boiler pilot light.



you see where I'm going with this?


About 3,000 feet straight up


_____________________________

The liver is Evil and must be punished.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to squeakalong)
       Post #: 175

Page:   <<   < prev  1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8   next >   >>  
All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> Golden Age, Vintage & Antique RC >> RE: Is dope & fabric covering dead?
Page: <<   < prev  1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8   next >   >>  




Jump to:


 
Google 



Search | Marketplace | Event Calendar | Local Clubs | Magazine | Product Ratings | New Products | Discussion Forums

Photo Gallery | Instructor Search | Field|Track|Marina Search

Advertisers | Hobby Vendor Resources | Rate Manufacturers | Sign In/Sign Up

SITE MAP!   : :   FORUM RULES

© 2001 - 2007 24-7 RC, LLC, all rights reserved.

Charities we support that also need your help
Yorkie Rescue | Humane Society | ASPCA | Crohn's-Colitis America

Kaango.com Classifieds

1.515RCU1