Cheap alternative to use Blade CP tx for FMS  
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Cheap alternative to use Blade CP tx for FMS - 2/2/2006 12:08:30 AM   
fishboy


 

Posts: 94
Joined: 7/5/2005
From: , OR, USA
Status: offline 		This is for all of those who are on a tight budget, if you can afford G3 and a USB interface then this probably won't apply to you.


I recently saw this cable for sale on Ebay and figured what the heck.. The price was nice and low.

http://www.heli-fever.com/product_info.php?products_id=308&language=en&osCsid=57411233443c6123f10ccc5a008e22e2
This add says it doesn't work, but it does, you'll just get 4 channels.

So I bought it last weekend and spend a few days wondering if I'd jsust tossed a few beer's worth of money out the window.
While I waited I did some searching and found this site.

http://www.radio-controlled-toys.com/honeybee_CP2_fms_flightsim_setup.htm

So my cable arrived today and I plugged it in... nothing straight off.
I downloaded ppjoy, their main site seems to be down but there are other places to get it.
I follwed the set up for ppjoy, then followed the setup for FMS as describbed on the linked thread and voila! My blade cp tx now runs perfectly in FMS. It doesn't give me all six channels, but for a cheapie and quick practice for hovering etc it's great. I have also downloaded and installed a blade cp model for FMS. It's actually not too bad. Not as stable as alot of the other models etc. If I can find the link later I'll post it.

So before you go spending $26 for a serial cable on some sites, this will do the same thing for much less (the USB cables are nother matter).

I know that some people will rip and say that FMS is just a game, invest in a top of the line sim etc etc. But lets face it. The blade cp costs the same as G3 with no expansions. If I was going to buy a $800 bird it would make sense, but FMS will still give the newbie some stick time without totalling their heli.

< Message edited by fishboy -- 2/2/2006 12:10:03 AM >
       Post #: 1

RE: Cheap alternative to use Blade CP tx for FMS - 2/2/2006 3:33:30 PM   
Dave ESPI



Posts: 1538
Joined: 11/30/2005
From: Latham, NY, USA
Status: offline 		"Something is better than nothing".

I agree.


I have yet to use a sim, but then again PATIENCE and taking small steps with your heli and flights is key. Get used to it a little at a time, then move up to higher flight, and take the gear off when ready.

_____________________________

Saying the Baja is aerodynamic for an offroader is sorta like saying a brick is aerodynamic for a piece of cement.

(in reply to fishboy)
       Post #: 2

RE: Cheap alternative to use Blade CP tx for FMS - 2/2/2006 3:49:32 PM   
bluesky123


 

Posts: 371
Joined: 1/8/2002
From: Boulder, CO, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fishboy
... My blade cp tx now runs perfectly in FMS.


How about the always present CCPM in Blade CP transmitter? Neither FMS, nor PPJoy do CCPM "un-mixing", so, with a simple cable you must see all the channels mixed up. When you move the throttle, several channels are affected--two out of three swashplate servos are moving in one direction, while the third serve moves in the opposite direction. What's the point of such "practice"???


(in reply to fishboy)
       Post #: 3

RE: Cheap alternative to use Blade CP tx for FMS - 2/2/2006 5:27:44 PM   
grosporina


 

Posts: 99
Joined: 9/15/2005
From: Brampton, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		The FMS simulation should account for the cyclic+collective mixing already, I think it's the throttle+collective mixing that you will be stuck with using this method.
Doesn't the CP transmitter send out collective + throttle and the two cyclic axes seperately then it's the receiver that mixes collective with cyclic for the 3 swashplate servos?

(in reply to bluesky123)
       Post #: 4

RE: Cheap alternative to use Blade CP tx for FMS - 2/2/2006 5:49:38 PM   
1LO64


 

Posts: 270
Joined: 2/6/2005
From: TRF, MN, USA
Status: offline 		I use the Blade CP TX and FMS with a serial cable from Mile High. I have downloaded several models including the Blade model but feel that the "Spirit" has pretty much the same hovering characterisitics of my Blade. I do not use the FMS to practice FF, FFF, or Aerobatics. I use the FMS for dialing my hovering orientations in which has proven to be VERY helpful. I've also been working on the FMS to orientate myself with inverted hovering. It's GREAT for hovering practice and becoming familiar with orientation......nothing more, nothing less.

< Message edited by 1LO64 -- 2/2/2006 5:50:57 PM >

(in reply to grosporina)
       Post #: 5

RE: Cheap alternative to use Blade CP tx for FMS - 2/2/2006 8:43:19 PM   
fishboy


 

Posts: 94
Joined: 7/5/2005
From: , OR, USA
Status: offline 		FMS does seem to account for the mixing. Right stick is channel 1 and 2 left stick is 3 and 4 and it works just fine.

My controller settings in FMS are are:

Rudder ch4
Elevator ch2
Aileron ch1
Throttle ch3 inv
Tail ch4
Nick ch2
Roll ch1
Pitch ch3 inv

As B.Davison pointed out, some practice is better than none. I don't use FMS for doing aerobatics etc. Hell, I'm still leaning my hovering etc. It works great for hovering orientation, control functions. How effective it is really depends on which model you use. Since most of the models available are made by home hobbyists the quality varies greatly. There are some that I honestly think I would really have to work hard to crash, then there are some that if you go full back on the right stick they'll rotate on their center axis. It all depends on who did the programming. I've found several that work great. The one of the Blade that I've been using is reasonably close to how my Blade has been acting when I use it. I've also found that adding int he occassional gust of wind helps keep me on my toes. hehe



(in reply to 1LO64)
       Post #: 6

RE: Cheap alternative to use Blade CP tx for FMS - 2/2/2006 8:44:27 PM   
bluesky123


 

Posts: 371
Joined: 1/8/2002
From: Boulder, CO, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: grosporina
Doesn't the CP transmitter send out collective + throttle and the two cyclic axes seperately then it's the receiver that mixes collective with cyclic for the 3 swashplate servos?


There are two approaches in implemnting CCPM:

1) Do all the mixing inside the transmitter => receiver doesn't change the signals in any way, i.e. the channel signals leaving the transmitter encoder are the same as the servo signals, leaving the receiver. The advantage is that you can control the mixing parameters, e.g. switch between nthe normal and the Idle Up flight modes, by changing the transmitter operation and without affecting the way the RX works. Therefore, transmitter becomes more complex, while receiver remains simple.
All "serious" helicopter transmitters do this, but they usually allow you to adjust the mixing parameters or disable CCPM altogether. Blade CP transmitter also does CCPM itself, it has two flight modes, but no parameters can be adjusted and CCPM can't be switched off (e.g., to use this TX with a fixed wing plane or with a simulator).

2) Implement the mixing in a special mixing board or in "X-in-1" receiver on board of the helie. Then, the transmitter can be simple, no mixing is performed in the TX, the channel signals are proportional to the stick deflections, but receiver needs to get "smarter" and start mixing the incoming data according to the swashplate configuration and the flight mode. One huge disadvantage of this approach is that you are either unable to switch flight modes from your transmitter (what's the point in CP then?) or you have to pack additional mixing control information into the PPM frame. The "X-in-1" receiver than filers this information out and interprets it differently from the stick deflections.
This is what Walkera transmitters for CP helies implement: after the 6 regular PPM encodes pulses (which contain the stick deflection data), there is a digital packet, which controls the mixing parameters.



The ramifications of these two approaches for the simulator use are:

1) Blade CP radio requires an interface, which "un-mixes" CCPM. As mixing parameters are different for Normal and Idle Up flight modes, the unmixing algorithm only works for one of them: http://milehighwings.com/faq.htm#11

2) Walkera 6-ch transmitters require an interface, which skips the digital portion of the PPM frame and only uses the first 6 analog pulses. Please note that not all Walkera transmitter are the same--4ch TXs of FP helies implement Zhen Hua protocol, some (transitionsl?) models don't have any data in the trainer plug, while most 6ch radios require interfaces with Walkera compatibility mode:
http://milehighwings.com/faq.htm#10



I hope this will help to clear up some confusion surrounding different (and incompatible) Chinese helicopter transmitters.


Boris

< Message edited by bluesky123 -- 2/2/2006 8:47:41 PM >

(in reply to grosporina)
       Post #: 7

RE: Cheap alternative to use Blade CP tx for FMS - 2/3/2006 7:56:38 AM   
fishboy


 

Posts: 94
Joined: 7/5/2005
From: , OR, USA
Status: offline 		All I'm saying is that the standard serial port cable from E Sky works just fine with FMS. I'm guessing that it's pretty much identical to the serial cable from milehigh, but is less expensive. As far as I can tell the serial cable at milehigh doesn't have any extra firmware to unmix the signal (yes the USB interface does but that's not what this thread is about).

Also, depending on how you set it up during calibration you can actually set it up so that it is capable of inverted flight for hose that want to practice the stick movements involved.

I am presenting an inexpensive alternative that will help the newbie learn standard hover orientation and control responses which are the most basic steps to learning to fly a heli. This cable DOES work with the blade tx in FMS if it is set up properly. It IS less expensive than the other alternatives and WILL benefit the newcomeing pilot who is on a tight budget.

I just posted this in hopes of helping some people out before they reach the frustration level of selling on Ebay or sending their bird to heli purgatory (the closet).

< Message edited by fishboy -- 2/3/2006 8:39:41 AM >

(in reply to bluesky123)
       Post #: 8

RE: Cheap alternative to use Blade CP tx for FMS - 2/3/2006 3:33:43 PM   
zguy


 

Posts: 10
Joined: 11/29/2005
From: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Status: offline 		This is good news!

Can you please post the settings and model(s) that support inverted flight?

Also, where did you find the good CP model?

THANKS!

(in reply to fishboy)
       Post #: 9

RE: Cheap alternative to use Blade CP tx for FMS - 2/3/2006 3:57:15 PM   
bluesky123


 

Posts: 371
Joined: 1/8/2002
From: Boulder, CO, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fishboy
I'm guessing that it's <E-Sky cable> pretty much identical to the serial cable from milehigh, but is less expensive. As far as I can tell the serial cable at milehigh doesn't have any extra firmware to unmix the signal (yes the USB interface does but that's not what this thread is about).


That's totally wrong!

For serial PIC cables, we flash different firmware for Blade CP and for other transmitters. Blade CP firmware does un-mixing of the signal, while the other version doesn't. As our serial PIC cables are built around flash-based PIC, we can re-program them easily.

Our USB interface, from the other hand, has universal firmware and a flash chip, which stores the interface configuration. The interface can be configured to work with regular transmitters, with CCPM transmitters like Blade CP, or with non-standard Walkera PPM version.

Chinese manufacturers can make products of decent quality but they almost never supply even half decent documentation. That's why there's so much confusion surrounding these helicopter transmitters. To figure everything out, we had to buy a bunch of different transmitters, including Eflite and E-Sky CCPM and non-CCPM transmitters, several Walkera radios, Parkzone TX, etc. It is amazing how different these radios are--they use different plugs and different wiring of the same mini-DIN plug, different channel sequences, different CCPM implementations, etc.
Such a mess!

Boris

< Message edited by bluesky123 -- 2/3/2006 3:59:25 PM >

(in reply to fishboy)
       Post #: 10

RE: Cheap alternative to use Blade CP tx for FMS - 2/3/2006 4:31:40 PM   
fishboy


 

Posts: 94
Joined: 7/5/2005
From: , OR, USA
Status: offline 		bluesky123,
Thanks for the info. No offense intended, just passing on a little trick I found that works for those of us on a seriously limited budget. I have no doubt that the Milehigh cables are a quality product, but while some people can afford a Lexus (USB), or a Honda (MH Serial), and some can only afford an old Hyundi (my way).

Zguy,

On the last step of calibration in FMS it asks you to center the sticks. If you put the throttle to the bottom and click ok when you go into the simulator it will only give you positive lift (like the standard mode). If you place the throttle stick to the midway point (center it) and click ok you will have negative throttle and when you push the stick down in the simulator (like idle up mode). You never have to mess with the idle up switch.

I'll see if I can find where I got my blade model from. I was looking for it last night, but for some reason couldn't find my way back to the site. The reason I like this model is because it has a more realistic turning so you can't just flip it upside down. You have to have a little bit of altitude whereas some models will let you pivot on the axis. When I find the right model I'll post it. If not PM me your email and I'll email the files to you from my model folder. They're nice and small anyways.

< Message edited by fishboy -- 2/4/2006 8:10:58 PM >

(in reply to bluesky123)
       Post #: 11

RE: Cheap alternative to use Blade CP tx for FMS - 2/3/2006 5:09:22 PM   
zguy


 

Posts: 10
Joined: 11/29/2005
From: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Status: offline 		You rock!

It worked just as you said!

The Blade CP model I found is white like a Honey Bee CP. Is this the one you use?

Please post any other good finds.

Thanks.

(in reply to fishboy)
       Post #: 12

RE: Cheap alternative to use Blade CP tx for FMS - 2/3/2006 11:06:56 PM   
fishboy


 

Posts: 94
Joined: 7/5/2005
From: , OR, USA
Status: offline 		Zguy,

It sounds like the same model. 8D

(in reply to zguy)
       Post #: 13