How to finish/cover a scale aircraft?    Gallery
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as Guest



Users viewing this topic: none
    Search This Thread  
 
Printable Version


Premier Pilot 1/4 scale full body pilot
Seller:  Ren DiLeo
Details:   $129.00   |  5/16/2013   |  Classified Ad
We will rotate YOUR AD in this spot if you select "Forum Featured" when placing or editing your ad!

All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> RC Scale Aircraft >> How to finish/cover a scale aircraft?
Page: [1]

Tower Hobbies Get Coupon Codes Brands  
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
How to finish/cover a scale aircraft? - 2/6/2006 9:31 AM   
PilotJunky



Posts: 21
Score: 100
Joined: 2/8/2002
Last Login: 5/19/2013
From: Scottsdale, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		Hi all...

I've built several RC aircraft over the years, some from kits, and a couple scratch built models. But I'm considering a scale aircraft now and I'm wondering how scale aircraft are covered? I've always used Monokote or Ultracote, but I find it hard to believe a true scale finish is possible with these materials. What is the most common approach? Could the balsa be covered in an epoxy of some sort and painted? Are there alternatives to some of these lovely finishes I have seen in magazines and from a distance at some fields.

Thanks
Rich.


_____________________________

Rich.


Hide Signatures
       Post #: 1

RE: How to finish/cover a scale aircraft? - 2/6/2006 10:10 AM   
tmaucher


 

Posts: 205
Score: 106
Joined: 10/18/2003
Last Login: 3/31/2013
From: Lindsborg, KS, USA
Status: offline 		fibreglassed


Hide Signatures

(in reply to PilotJunky)
       Post #: 2

RE: How to finish/cover a scale aircraft? - 2/6/2006 10:24 AM   
papermache



Posts: 783
Score: 105
Joined: 9/27/2002
Last Login: 4/26/2013
From: Chesterton, IN, USA
Status: offline 		junky,

It depends on which scale subject you're going to model and how that aircraft was covered originally as to how you proceed. To a lesser extent, the scale size and power desired have something to do with your covering choices. F'rinstance, if the subject were WWI, then a fabric covering would be a logical place to start. Coloring could be dope, enamel or latex paint with a urethane or other sort of a clear finish. A WWII subject in a smaller size can be nicely covered with Monokote, but for larger sizes, you may want to fiberglass a sheeted surface or use flite-metal or something like that. Then there are the half-a-million ways to add detail like rivets, panel lines and various and sundry other things.

Choose your subject and you'll see what I mean. Good luck.

papermache

_____________________________

Slope Gliding - A Northwest Indiana tradition since 1896

Hide Signatures

(in reply to PilotJunky)
       Post #: 3

RE: How to finish/cover a scale aircraft? - 2/8/2006 5:13 AM   
PilotJunky



Posts: 21
Score: 100
Joined: 2/8/2002
Last Login: 5/19/2013
From: Scottsdale, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		I'm actually contemplating a 81" Brian Taylor Mosquito which I want to convert to Electric...


_____________________________

Rich.


Hide Signatures

(in reply to papermache)
       Post #: 4

RE: How to finish/cover a scale aircraft? - 2/8/2006 6:27 AM   
BobH


 

Posts: 6763
Score: 116
Joined: 4/1/2003
Last Login: 5/21/2013
From: Springfield, VA,
Status: online 		They have electric motors that can compete with the Nitro engines now so you can finish your plane any way you want.. Fiberglass and resin will give you a very smooth finish....The mossie was a ply covered plane wasnt it? and then it was doped over with fabric?.. if that was the case you can use the full scale practices. Just some thoughts.

_____________________________

BobH.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to PilotJunky)
       Post #: 5

RE: How to finish/cover a scale aircraft? - 2/8/2006 6:37 AM   
PilotJunky



Posts: 21
Score: 100
Joined: 2/8/2002
Last Login: 5/19/2013
From: Scottsdale, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		I'd love to do a fiberglass finish over the balsa... I would then love to air brush it and otherwise finish it scale like... you are correct it was a wooden/faberic airplane originally however.

What is the weight penalty with fiberglass in an application like this?


_____________________________

Rich.


Hide Signatures

(in reply to BobH)
       Post #: 6

RE: How to finish/cover a scale aircraft? - 2/8/2006 6:47 AM   
BobH


 

Posts: 6763
Score: 116
Joined: 4/1/2003
Last Login: 5/21/2013
From: Springfield, VA,
Status: online 		Rich you can fiberglas and resin a plane and still have a fairly light finish. You can shed weight during the building process. Lightening holes and use of light weight contest grade balsa will help. Some of those older plans were over built so study where you can remove some excess weight.

_____________________________

BobH.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to PilotJunky)
       Post #: 7

RE: How to finish/cover a scale aircraft? - 2/8/2006 7:04 AM   
PilotJunky



Posts: 21
Score: 100
Joined: 2/8/2002
Last Login: 5/19/2013
From: Scottsdale, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		I would imagine the strength of the fiberglass would allow the "removal" of a great deal of Balsa. I took a look, but didn't see any good articles on RC Aircraft Fiberglassing.... does anyone know of a link to a good article?

Thanks!


_____________________________

Rich.


Hide Signatures

(in reply to BobH)
       Post #: 8

RE: How to finish/cover a scale aircraft? - 2/8/2006 6:34 PM   
BobH


 

Posts: 6763
Score: 116
Joined: 4/1/2003
Last Login: 5/21/2013
From: Springfield, VA,
Status: online 		Try a search here in RCU about fiberglassing. There have been several articles/discussions about "how to". Actually it's a pretty simple process. You can use 3/4 oz cloth and resin. Either Epoxy finishing resin or Polyester finishing resin. The epoxy takes longer to set up but doesn't have the "bad smell" of polyester. Both work about the same when cured.

Cut your cloth a little over sized for say 1 wing panel. If you have a nice bristle brush you can brush the glass with it after you have placed it on the wing. This will create a static charge and help keep the glass in place. Mix your resin according to the directions and pour a line right down the middle of wing in the direction of the span (root to tip).

Now you have a couple of options for spreading the glass. You can use a squeegee used for body work, paper playing cards or business cards or (my new favorite method) a small Roller. You can buy these small foam rollers at Lowes and Home depot OR you can buy them from some of the companies selling cloth and resin on the internet. If you use the roller method just roll out the resin like you would paint. You want coverage but NOT build up. If you are using playing cards or biz cards etc, scrape/spread the resin out from the center to saturate the glass but again NO build up.

Let the resin cure and lightly sand. You just want to remove any imperfections, thats all. Put on another coat the same way and let it cure. You may not need another coat depending on how thick the second coat was. You don't need to completely fill the weave in the cloth with resin. Your primer will help to do this and primer is easier to sand.

For around curves and wing LE and TE edges brush the cloth on using a disposal-able brush. You should over lap your cloth sections by around 1/4 inch or so. The seams will disappear once you sand and prime.

You remove excess cloth by sanding along an edge. It will sand right off and just leave your bonded cloth in place.

As in ANY good finish Preparation is KEY. Make your wood level (you may have to fill using a filler) and sand with 220-320 grit paper. The better the preparation the better the finish.

I hope this helps. Try it, it's easy and simple to do. And remember there is no ONE method to do it correctly. Your goal is to have cloth bonded to the wood via resin and the weave filled and smooth. Primer helps fill the weave, its lighter and easier to sand.

Good luck.


_____________________________

BobH.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to PilotJunky)
       Post #: 9

RE: How to finish/cover a scale aircraft? - 2/10/2006 2:39 PM   
Stickbuilder



Posts: 8422
Score: 346
Joined: 11/20/2005
Last Login: 5/21/2013
From: Wildwood, FL, USA
Status: offline 		I believe that if I were doing a project like the, "Mossie", I would sheet the fuse, and use Koverall. This product has a very predictable dry heat shrinkage rate (both machine direction, and cross direction), and you can take the wrinkles and bagginess right out. I would finish with dope (use a flattening agent to get the correct scale finish). (Remember warbirds were seldom slick and shiny) You will end up with a fairly light bird, and the structure is very strong. (you ever tried tearing this stuff?) I have used this system with great success over the years and I love it.

_____________________________

Its easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesnt look like an airplane.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to BobH)
       Post #: 10

RE: How to finish/cover a scale aircraft? - 2/10/2006 7:24 PM   
jaka


 

Posts: 7182
Score: 158
Joined: 12/11/2001
Last Login: 5/21/2013
From: Upplands Vasby, SWEDEN
Status: offline 		Hi!
Glassfiber and 24 hour epoxy (laminating epoxy resin) or polyester resin is what I would use ...then spray painting using professional auto lacquer like Sikkens, Glasurite or PPG acrylic spaint. Or if you want to build a lightweigt airplane that isn't built to F4C scale standards but a good flyer...first cover the balsa surface with 25g glassfiber /polyester resin and finally cover the surface with Oracover plastic film, like on my Marutaka DC-3.

Regards!
Jan K
Sweden

Attachments
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize 		Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize 		Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize 		Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize


_____________________________

Jan Karlsson - Supplier MVVS Products

Hide Signatures

(in reply to PilotJunky)
       Post #: 11

RE: How to finish/cover a scale aircraft? - 2/11/2006 7:02 PM   
RedTwilight



Posts: 311
Score: 100
Joined: 1/15/2006
Last Login: 3/25/2013
From: Hurdle Mills, NC, USA
Status: offline 		I too am interested in how to best cover for a more scale look. How much extra weight does the fiberglass approx. add? What about just fully sheeting then sealing the balsa, then primer and paint? Could this be a possible method?

_____________________________

Trinity

Hide Signatures

(in reply to jaka)
       Post #: 12

RE: How to finish/cover a scale aircraft? - 2/11/2006 8:53 PM   
saramos



Posts: 2951
Score: 121
Joined: 12/6/2003
Last Login: 5/19/2013
From: Northridge, CA, USA
Status: offline 		If you are going to paint a model, you will want to use some sort of stablizing material, such as glass cloth. If you simply seal, prime and paint the balsa, you run into a couple of problems. First, it can be difficult, and often, just as heavy to seal the wood to the point where the wood grain is not visible. Second, over time, with the normal expansion, contraction and flexing of the balsa, the paint will tend to crack. The main purpose on glassing a model is to get a smooth, stable surface for painting.


For my first painted finish, I've selected glass and epoxy, using 1/2 oz glass, and West Systems epoxy. I lay the glass on the surface and brush it with a soft brush to smooth it and create a static charge (this helps to keep it in position and in contact with the balsa). Next, I apply the epoxy using an acid brush, or a small 1" disposable brush. (Note, cheap brushes tend to shed hairs) After the epoxy is applied, I use a plastic spreader to squeegee the surface. This removes a lot of the exess epoxy and firmly presses the glass to the surface. Next I roll toilet paper over the surface to remove all the exess epoxy I can. Once the epoxy cures, I prime the surface. Then I use 360 grit wet paper to remove most the primer. This leaves primer only in the spaces between the weave of the glass. Be careful not to sand through the glass. I repeate priming and sanding until I have a smooth, texture free surface.
At this point, you can look for any imperfections in your surface, such as low spots, and use fillers to correct. Once all is smooth and level, the plane is ready for final detailing, such as adding panel lines and rivets. Now you can now put on a final primer coat in preparation of painting.

Using this method, I suspect that the paint will weigh as much as, if not more than, the epoxy/glass itself.

On my next project, I may try the water based poly route. I want to eventually try various methods to determine what I like best. I selected the glass-epoxy for my first time mainly because it seemed to be the most common.

Scott

Scott


< Message edited by saramos -- 2/11/2006 8:56 PM >

Hide Signatures

(in reply to RedTwilight)
       Post #: 13

RE: How to finish/cover a scale aircraft? - 2/12/2006 12:12 AM   
BobH


 

Posts: 6763
Score: 116
Joined: 4/1/2003
Last Login: 5/21/2013
From: Springfield, VA,
Status: online 		Balsa/ wood does NOT make a good base for paint. It's very difficult to keep wood from swelling and showing the grain.

Fiberglass/resin does NOT add an appreciable amount of weight to a plane. The key is to not load up on the resin resulting in a thick coat. Just enough resin to bind the cloth to the wood, resulting in a finish that still shows the weave, will do just fine. Fill the weave with Primer and sand smooth.

_____________________________

BobH.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to RedTwilight)
       Post #: 14

RE: How to finish/cover a scale aircraft? - 2/12/2006 12:24 AM   
PilotJunky



Posts: 21
Score: 100
Joined: 2/8/2002
Last Login: 5/19/2013
From: Scottsdale, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		What do you use for primer/filler after glassing? Are the Epoxies and Resins the same as you could get at Home Depot for a Car, or are they special Model materials?


_____________________________

Rich.


Hide Signatures

(in reply to BobH)
       Post #: 15

RE: How to finish/cover a scale aircraft? - 2/12/2006 1:54 AM   
saramos



Posts: 2951
Score: 121
Joined: 12/6/2003
Last Login: 5/19/2013
From: Northridge, CA, USA
Status: offline 		The resins used for body work on cars are typically polyester based resins. Bondo is also polyester based. Note that poly based resins are not compatible with epoxy resins. Use one system or the other. Don't try and mix the methods.

I found the West Systems epoxy was carried by my local hobby shop. I've never seen West Systems sold in hardware stores. You might find it at boat repair supply stores, or you can order it online. CST carries it on their website at www.cstsales.com. I use the 105 resin with the 206 hardener. The primer I use for filling the weave is just a rattle can high build sandable primer called Duplicolor I bought at the local auto parts store.

Here's a photo of my Spitfire wing in it's 'ugly' state. It is now ready for the addition of panel lines, then final painting. If I were to give it it's final prime coat and paint at this point, I would have a smooth detail-less finish. In the photo are some of the products I used.

Scott


Attachments
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize


< Message edited by saramos -- 2/12/2006 1:55 AM >

Hide Signatures

(in reply to PilotJunky)
       Post #: 16

RE: How to finish/cover a scale aircraft? - 2/12/2006 3:17 AM   
BobH


 

Posts: 6763
Score: 116
Joined: 4/1/2003
Last Login: 5/21/2013
From: Springfield, VA,
Status: online 		I addition to the good advice given by the last person I would like to add that WHITE primer is the best color primer to use. The primer influences the colors of the paint put over it. White does not effect the colors and tends to show them better. I use Rustoleum primer but any decent white primer is fine and that includes Automotive types.

_____________________________

BobH.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to PilotJunky)
       Post #: 17

RE: How to finish/cover a scale aircraft? - 2/12/2006 3:51 AM   
PilotJunky



Posts: 21
Score: 100
Joined: 2/8/2002
Last Login: 5/19/2013
From: Scottsdale, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		Can fiberglass be used to cover areas not sheeted by balsa? ie, ribs of a wing not sheeted?


_____________________________

Rich.


Hide Signatures

(in reply to BobH)
       Post #: 18

RE: How to finish/cover a scale aircraft? - 2/12/2006 4:14 AM   
culver


 

Posts: 189
Score: 100
Joined: 6/18/2005
Last Login: 5/17/2013
From: TELFORD, PA, USA
Status: offline 		Open areas would build up to much resin trying to fill the weave, having wood under the cloth holds the resin in the weave. Full size aircraft have used fiberglass cloth and clear dope in a process called razorback and it takes alot of clear dope to fill the weave and make it smooth.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to PilotJunky)
       Post #: 19

RE: How to finish/cover a scale aircraft? - 2/12/2006 8:41 AM   
saramos



Posts: 2951
Score: 121
Joined: 12/6/2003
Last Login: 5/19/2013
From: Northridge, CA, USA
Status: offline 		I didn't mention that I will be using a light grey primer in the next step of adding panel lines and also for the final prime before painting. Bob is correct about using a white (or neutral) primer before adding your color coat. Two colors of primer while filling the weave and any imperfections can be helpful too. Use one color primer then sand it off. Prime with a second color and sand. After sanding, the low spots will always be in the most recent color used.

Scott


Hide Signatures

(in reply to BobH)
       Post #: 20

RE: How to finish/cover a scale aircraft? - 2/16/2006 7:22 AM   
lrr



Posts: 62
Score: 100
Joined: 1/14/2005
Last Login: 1/9/2008
From: Fort Collins, CO, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PilotJunky

What do you use for primer/filler after glassing? Are the Epoxies and Resins the same as you could get at Home Depot for a Car, or are they special Model materials?


I'm pretty new to RC, so I'm kinda lurking in different areas. I used to be into rocketry big time, and did a fair amount of fiberglassing. The 3/4 oz. and lighter glass is great to work with. You can go over curves pretty easily. I even glassed a balsa nose cone that was very rounded, since I wanted a super smooth finish. Consider thin fiberglass finishes as adding smoothness, and some rigidity, but do not think it will add a huge amount of strength. I've seen shears in a rocket that landed a little hard. Instead of getting a bent cardboard body tube, it snapped!

I used finishing epoxy, thinned ~25% with lacquer thinner. This made spreading easy. I also used cut pieces of plastic lids (such as from a margarine tub) to scrape away the excess epoxy. Put down just enough to saturate the cloth, and a little weave showing is fine. Better to fill with primer than spend a lot of elbow grease sanding it off!

Finally, I found Kilz primer from Home Depot to be just amazing. Lots of filler. You can buy spray cans, or even get it in a gallon can, and brush it on with cheap brush.. It sands off like baby powder, so you can put it on with a brush without too much worry -- other than making sure you wear a mask when sanding. Dust goes everywhere.

_____________________________

Thank God for snow and bitter cold. If I could fly all year, when would I build and do repairs?

Hide Signatures

(in reply to PilotJunky)
       Post #: 21

RE: How to finish/cover a scale aircraft? - 2/17/2006 10:34 AM   
Chip_Mull



Posts: 666
Score: 124
Joined: 2/2/2005
Last Login: 5/21/2013
From: Granbury, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Covering solid surfaces with fiberglass cloth and Poly-Tone paints.
This is one of the many ways Feather Coat and Poly Tone can be used on a solid sheeted surface. After the sheeting is applied and sanded, cut the .75 oz fiberglass cloth from Aerospace Composite Products* to slightly oversize and lay it over the frame work. Use a brush to smooth the cloth. The static electricity created from the brush will hold the cloth in place or you can use 3M adhesive spray.

Now mix your EZ Lam (again from Aerospace Composite Products*) in the recommended ratios of 2 parts A to 1 part B. This product sands well and comes in two different cure times of 30 minute or 60 minute.

Don’t change the mix ratios! George and Barbara Sparr have spent many a phone call to the chemist to make it simple for the modeler, while producing a quality product. The process described here has the blessings of ACP and has been field tested for years. It works and works well.

Back to the wing. Now that the EZ Lam is mixed well, (mixed well) cut it with 91% alcohol to produce a 50/50 mixture, half EZ Lam and half alcohol. We use 91% because it has less water in it and because it works. Yes, you can find 91% or greater alcohol. You might have to ask your pharmacist, but he has it.

Now paint the 50/50 mixture on the fiberglass cloth. This will soak through the cloth and bond the cloth to the framework.

This is where we part with SOP (Standard Operating Procedure). Instead of applying another coat of EZ Lam to fill the weave, spray a coat of Feather Coat (FC-900) and sand. Now you’re ready for paint and the surface is primed, sanded, and lighter!

If you like the process, let us know at F&M 817-279-8045, if you don’t like it, tell George at *Aerospace Composite Products 14210 Doolittle Dr., San Leandro, CA 94577 (510) 352-2022 FAX (510) 352-2021

_____________________________

Let''s launch, first one up takes lead and we''ll brief on Guard!
Owner, F&M Enterprises

Hide Signatures

(in reply to lrr)
       Post #: 22

Page:   [1]
All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> RC Scale Aircraft >> How to finish/cover a scale aircraft?
Page: [1]





Jump to:


 
Google 



Search | Marketplace | Event Calendar | Local Clubs | Magazine | Product Ratings | New Products | Discussion Forums

Photo Gallery | Instructor Search | Field|Track|Marina Search

Advertisers | Hobby Vendor Resources | Rate Manufacturers | Sign In/Sign Up

SITE MAP!   : :   FORUM RULES

RC Universe is a service of Internet Brands, Inc. Copyright © 2001-2013.

Charities we support that also need your help
Yorkie Rescue | Humane Society | ASPCA | Crohn's-Colitis America


1.406RCU1