Cellpro 4s Balancing Charger (Full Version)

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Greg Covey -> Cellpro 4s Balancing Charger (2/15/2006 5:30:42 PM)

FMA’s new Cellpro 4s Charger is part of a revolutionary new lower-cost LiPo battery and charge system for R/C aircraft. With an automatic 1C charge rate of up to 4 amps, the charger brings your Cellpro compatible packs up to charge with unprecedented safety and accuracy! No knobs, buttons, or jumpers to set - the cell count cannot be wrong!

A built-in LCD display shows you charging information and a pack fuel gauge. The PC interface allows for a complete graphical display of each cell in the pack using the free FMA 4s Charger Viewer Software.

FMA’s Cellpro Node Connector is a key part of the system. It enables the charger to monitor individual cells and independently charge each cell to its optimum level.

Charge protection dramatically improves pack performance, pack life and charging safety. The Cellpro 4s charger may be used to charge only FMA's new Cellpro Kokam and Cellpro Slimline 2s to 4s LiPo packs.

Cellpro 4s Charger Features:

  • LCD Screen shows all 4 battery voltages with 1/10% accuracy full scale, current, supply voltage, Amp Hrs, Fuel Level and Charge mode
  • The charge current in amp hours is factory calibrated to +/-1% accuracy
  • A built-in speaker signals charging finished
  • The Auto-current setting will charge any battery less than 3.5Ah in 50 minutes or it can be manually set to 0.25 to 4 amps in 0.25A steps
  • The free 4S viewer software shows everything in graphical format
  • Battery Restore mode will fix over discharged cells
  • Special wire compensation allows 10mV accuracy on any length charge wire


Don't let your old charger guess the wrong cell count again! Using the lower cost Cellpro 4s charger guarantees the correct cell count.

Cellpro 4s Charger
Cellpro Products



Greg Covey -> RE: Cellpro 4s Balancing Charger (2/16/2006 12:13:54 AM)

Cellpro 4s Discharge Protection Module

In the past, Lithium packs were treated in a similar fashion to NiCd and NiMH packs during both charge and discharge cycles. They were treated at the pack voltage level and not the individual cell level. The Electronic Speed Controller (ESC) would monitor the pack voltage and shut the motor down when the voltage was reduced to a certain level. The over discharge damage to a weak cell in the Lithium pack could not be protected against.

The new Cellpro 4s Discharge Protection Module (DPM) plugs in-line between any ESC and the Cellpro battery pack node connector. It monitors each cell during flight and cuts off the motor when the weakest cell is safely depleted. Additionally, the Cellpro 4s DPM provides a 30 or 60 second (user selectable) early warning by pulsing the motor to tell the pilot that it is time to land. No more dead stick landings! No more damaged packs by ESCs guessing the cut-off voltage.

Cellpro applications can use up to a 12s Lithium voltage (three 4s Cellpro packs in series) by connecting three Cellpro 4s DPMS in a daisy-chain configuration to protect every cell during flight. The optional SV6S-SPKR is an accessory item that connects to the DPM for LED and audible status indication.



pilotpete2 -> RE: Cellpro 4s Balancing Charger (2/16/2006 1:06:08 AM)

Hi Greg,
Are we going to see, or be able to buy Cellpro 4S at thw WRAM show[8|]
I'm currently flying my 2M Deimos I with CP1300 7Cell, thinking of cellpro 2000 3S. If I go Li-Po I want to do it right[:D]



Greg Covey -> RE: Cellpro 4s Balancing Charger (2/16/2006 1:57:24 PM)

Hi Pete,

Yes, the WRAM show will be the first time we will take orders for the Cellpro charger at a special reduced show price. We will have a live demo of the chargers in the booth. We had hoped to have the production units by then but they will likely ship around mid-March.

There will be many WRAM show booth specials so we hope to see you there!



pilotpete2 -> RE: Cellpro 4s Balancing Charger (2/16/2006 10:16:02 PM)

Hey greg,

Only a blizzard will keep me away[:)] Are you taking "plastic" at your booth?
I'm looking forward to seeing the demo.

Thanks,
Pete



Greg Covey -> RE: Cellpro 4s Balancing Charger (2/17/2006 12:37:57 AM)

Plastic is good. Hopefully, we're all done with blizzards for '06.

See you next weekend!



FrancisPerson -> RE: Cellpro 4s Balancing Charger (2/26/2006 8:50:26 PM)

Greg,

I use a Castle Creations Pheonix 10 speed controler. Using the PHS link adapter I programmed the low voltage cut off at 9V for my three cell (Celpro) LiPo pack. Is it imperitave that I use the Cellpro 4s Discharge Protection Module?

Thanks Francis



Fred Marks -> RE: Cellpro 4s Balancing Charger (2/26/2006 11:53:40 PM)

Francis,

Only if you wouild like to get several hundred cycles from your Li Po pack. However, it is strongly suggested that you read over http://www.fmadirect.com/support_docs/item_1197.pdf specifically "Avoid the Zone of Temptation" to see that the thing that ruins most Li Po packs is unbalance that occurs during discharge.

Please read http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=734506 post # 9 to see what can happen to a pack that has poorly balanced cells as it is a perfect illustration of the "Zone of Temptation" that the DPM avoids completely. Some will try to tell you that their packs are always perfectly balanced; on of those is the seller of that speciman pack. Others will declare that they have flown hundreds of flights with out imbalance. Rod's data shows the real world.

fred@fmadirect.com



Greg Covey -> RE: Cellpro 4s Balancing Charger (2/27/2006 11:02:28 PM)

Francis,

The biggest issue solved by the Cellpro 4s charger is the Lithium safety issue. The Cellpro charger cannot get the cell count wrong and it cannot get the charge current wrong from a 1C rate. Additionally, by balancing your packs on every charge, you have also resolved some of the longevity issues related to unbalanced cells. The Cellpro 4s charger is the biggest step to safe charging and longer lasting packs.

The Cellpro 4s DPM also addresses the longevity issue by monitoring each cell during flight and shutting off the motor when the weakest cell is depleted. The cost and weight of the Cellpro DPM makes it less attractive to small parkflyers and indoor foamies. Once the plane become larger and the Lithium packs more expensive, the Cellpro DPM starts looking more attractive. As packs age, each cell develops a different capacity and the Cellpro DPM allows you to continue using the pack to the limits of the weakest cell.

It is not imperative that you use the Cellpro DPM as the discharge power line are not routed through it as in the BalancePro HD DPM.

Also keep in mind the concepts of pack temperature not exceeding 150 degrees F and using 70% of the so-called C rating as a realistic maximum current draw.




FrancisPerson -> RE: Cellpro 4s Balancing Charger (2/28/2006 12:15:34 AM)

Fred & Greg,

Thanks for the info. I have a cellpro 3s1p 640 mah pack. If I use the cellpro charger whenever it comes out won't my pack be ballenced after each charge? I am using this on a Great Planes flat out with a Hobby-Lobby Esskay 400XT Outrunner Brushless motor and a 9x4.8 gws prop. This should be within specs for these components.

My concern is the extra gadget to be caried by a light plane.

Thanks Francis



Fred Marks -> RE: Cellpro 4s Balancing Charger (2/28/2006 12:43:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FrancisPerson

Fred & Greg,

Thanks for the info. I have a cellpro 3s1p 640 mah pack. If I use the cellpro charger whenever it comes out won't my pack be ballenced after each charge? I am using this on a Great Planes flat out with a Hobby-Lobby Esskay 400XT Outrunner Brushless motor and a 9x4.8 gws prop. This should be within specs for these components.

My concern is the extra gadget to be caried by a light plane.

Thanks Francis

Franses
I suspect that you have been misled with regard to weight. The CellPro dpm will add about 8 grams to the weight of your , say, 10 ounce airplane. That is a little over 3% increase in AUW. Your 10 ounce model is 0.625 Lb. The KOK 640 at 11.1V and max 12.8 amps delivers 140 watts. 140watts/0.625lbs is 224 watts/lb. Increasing the weight by a round 10 grams would make the AUW = 264 grams = 10.5 Oz= 0.646 Lb and reduce the figure to 217 watts/lb. Any model that has more than 50 watt/lb available is a decent flyer and one that has 250 watts/lb is an international competetion caliber flyer! The extra few grams will ensure the life of your pack and keep your cost per flight down.

You have probably been reading a lot of hype about the lighter weight cells and this same set of data applies. Yes, the 7:1 savings in weight when you go from Ni Cd to Li Po is significant; saving a few grams after you make the jump to Li Pos is gilding the lily, especially as it reduces life cycle markedly.



proptop -> RE: Cellpro 4s Balancing Charger (3/1/2006 1:40:04 AM)

Hi Fred and Greg...
Any word yet on when we'll be able to buy the 4s charger and module?



Greg Covey -> RE: Cellpro 4s Balancing Charger (3/1/2006 2:25:48 PM)

It looks like the Cellpro products will be released on the first week of March. We may not put it on the Web site until after the Toledo show (March 7-9th) but I am not certain about that yet.

I will try to update the Coming Soon! page with the latest arrival date later this week.




staggerwing -> RE: Cellpro 4s Balancing Charger (3/1/2006 11:26:07 PM)

Will the CPM be available at the same time? Can we order it now to have it shipped when available?

Rich



Greg Covey -> RE: Cellpro 4s Balancing Charger (3/2/2006 12:52:12 AM)

Rich,

The CPMs and DPMs will be ready before the charger is ready. We may have the products in the ordering system so that you can pre-order next week. I'll check on that and report back.



staggerwing -> RE: Cellpro 4s Balancing Charger (3/2/2006 4:21:33 PM)

Thanks Greg, I'd like to get one ordered and here for when the weather breaks.

Rich



slowjoe -> RE: Cellpro 4s Balancing Charger (3/2/2006 8:22:32 PM)

Greg: I need to add and replace some of my lipos I have had in use for quite some time. They are a dukes mixture of brands and cell size. None have any balance taps. Since I will be starting from scratch on the balancing idea it would be good if I could do it right the first time and not wind up with a bunch of adapters, balancers, etc.
I have had good luck with Kokams, I find that you produce a good product.
Question? If I go to CEllPro, to keep them balanced I should have the new balance charger, and for discharge safety also the DPM. Does it present a problem if I charge occasionally with a Triton or other lipo charger.
Will the DPM work with brushed motors, if so this could save the expense of new Lipo frenidly ESC.
SJ



Greg Covey -> RE: Cellpro 4s Balancing Charger (3/2/2006 11:14:25 PM)

SJ,

The DPM will work with brushed motors. Most of my packs still charge through the discharge cable so it will be fine to do that on Cellpro packs as well. As long as you keep the discharge current within the rated specs and the pack temperature below 150 degrees F, you will be fine.

I don't intend to toss my existing packs or chargers. The balanced charger is a breakthrough in safety but it also an evolution. When your current charger breaks, consider a safer balancing charger as your next purchase.

The DPMs will not likely be used in smaller models using smaller packs. The cost and added weight of using a DPM on a smaller parkflyer or 3D foamy just doesn't matter as much because the packs are cheaper. The lower cell count packs, like 2s and 3s, stay in balance better than the higher cell count packs from 4s and up. Once you start getting into bigger more expensive packs, the DPM is a good investment.

One of the cool things about balanced charging is that you can now safely recharge the pack in the plane! Since the Cellpro packs have a long node cable, some models like my E-Flite mini Edge 540 are easy to recharge without removing the pack.



proptop -> RE: Cellpro 4s Balancing Charger (3/3/2006 5:33:00 AM)

Thanks Greg...



slowjoe -> RE: Cellpro 4s Balancing Charger (3/3/2006 6:18:52 AM)

Greg: thanks for the help. I see what you mean about the DPM being a valuable tool with the bigger more expensive packs. At this time 2 and 3 cell are all I plan on using. I will be watching for the release of the charger.
SJ



Greg Covey -> RE: Cellpro 4s Balancing Charger (3/3/2006 3:39:30 PM)

Rich,

It appears that you can indeed call in a phone order for the Cellpro charger and accys. Keep in mind that the shipping date is still somewhere around the first of April.

SJ,

The Cellpro DPM weighs about 0.3oz (9grams). This makes it a practical solution in all planes but maybe the lightest indoor flyers. It will be a personal choice as to when you think the Lithium pack expense warrents use of the DPM.



staggerwing -> RE: Cellpro 4s Balancing Charger (3/3/2006 8:59:40 PM)

Thanks Greg will get it ordered.

Rich



jim-mason -> RE: Cellpro 4s Balancing Charger (3/5/2006 9:13:13 PM)

Greg,
I'm sure you have read Red Scholefield's column in the March issue on Model Aviation. -----Wouldn't be nice for the industry to standardize on the Balance connector.--- Your CellPro batteries have been out for some time with no connectors or adaptors available to connect to this port. I ask FMA technical support for connector information and they refused to provide this; stating liability concerns. I know that your are aware that there are other vendors that make balancing circuitry and chargers that connect to balance ports. I'd like to have that option.
I think this information should be made available, or at least you should sell a mating connector.
Ideally, there could be a "Standard" established across the industry. I ask Red to help get this extablished.
The connector on the CellPro batteries seems to be a 2 mm pitch connector. Does anyone know the manufacture and model number?
Jim



Greg Covey -> RE: Cellpro 4s Balancing Charger (3/6/2006 12:29:20 AM)

Jim,

Although I agree that there is a need for connector standardization, I'm afraid that you have been mislead.

The liability issue has to do with FMA selling Cellpro node connectors or pigtails. While I would personally love for this to happen, we have been persuaded against doing so by legal counsel. The node connector issue is merely a sub-set of an underlying safety problem within the R/C industry. Many vendors were quick to jump into larger Lithium packs and auto-cell detect chargers. They are now back-peddling due to pending litigation. The vendors that prioritize making a buck over safety issues should be ashamed.

That being said, there is no secret as to what connector FMA uses or what the schematic wiring diagram looks like. This information has been published many times on the forums and I will repeat it here for you. Please see the attached wiring diagram. The connector is a JST, PA series, 2mm locking connector available at most electronics stores like Digikey and Mouser.

Further, FMA is the only manufacturer coming out with adapters for other pack manufacturers to connect to our balancing chargers. We currently have an adapter to go from the Cellpro line to the higher-end BalancePro HD line and plan to release adapters for ThunderPower, PolyQuest, and Tanic packs.

Please keep an eye on our Coming Soon! page or join our e-mail list for the latest status on new products from FMA Direct.



s3tbolt -> RE: Cellpro 4s Balancing Charger (3/7/2006 3:12:44 AM)

Greg:

I've read over the postings and look forward to an available balance charger. Like many others I too have a mix of LiPo packs, and not because I did not want a FMA pack, but for some applications there was no pack available from FMA. You can rest assured, a majority of my packs are FMA, I can't say enough about the monster 3 cell 3200mha, for two of my applications I get great flight time. I have 1 Duralite (sp) brand pack, do you envision an adaptor for use with your new Cellpro Charger?



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