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RE: EDF Airliner build thread - 3/1/2006 3:56:00 AM   
EDFmodel



Posts: 112
Joined: 8/20/2004
From: Queensland, , AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Sedar

Well done. Chrome nice idea -you had me wondering for a second.

Frontier coming along.

Ian.

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RE: EDF Airliner build thread - 3/1/2006 3:57:22 AM   
serdark


 

Posts: 40
Joined: 4/5/2004
From: plano, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Ian,

About the Frontier decals:

One little detail caught my attention. The port holes on the doors are still gray. Do you not want to convert those to black?

Serdar

< Message edited by serdark -- 3/1/2006 3:58:10 AM >

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       Post #: 27

RE: EDF Airliner build thread - 3/1/2006 4:31:53 AM   
EDFmodel



Posts: 112
Joined: 8/20/2004
From: Queensland, , AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Serdar

A thought -the rear wheels are 2" . You might want to think about replacing them with 1 3/4" wheels. The extra 1/4" will help in lowering the amount of space required to house wheel in retract bay. Smaller wheels will work with hard runway.

If you do this -do not forget to lower nose wheel leg by 1/4". You want the wing root profile angle of incidence at 1 degree.

Port holes in doors are grey because light refraction on thicker glass in door than windows :-)

Ian.



< Message edited by EDFmodel -- 3/1/2006 4:33:28 AM >

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RE: EDF Airliner build thread - 3/1/2006 5:08:25 AM   
serdark


 

Posts: 40
Joined: 4/5/2004
From: plano, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks for the tips on wheels Ian. One quick question: Measuring from the fuselage bottom and wing bottom surfaces to ground respectively, what should be the height of the nose and main gears so that the 1 degree incidence angle can be obtained (using the wheels that come in the kit)? I will recalculate the same for 1 3/4 wheels.

Serdar

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       Post #: 29

RE: EDF Airliner build thread - 3/3/2006 5:57:10 AM   
EDFmodel



Posts: 112
Joined: 8/20/2004
From: Queensland, , AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Hello Serdar

You have asked a rather difficult question in the sense that whatever measurement I give you, you will use to determine the wheel bay positions. You are planning retracts in the model and so all your mounting distances are unknown at this stage.

Starting with the end in mind, you need to achieve

- engine cowling ground clearance (at its lowest point ) of 25 mm;

- nose wheel sitting just above nose U/C doors (scale likeness);

- wing root profile at 1 degree of incidence.

On this subject the ONLY way to measure the angle of wing incidence is at the final assembly inspection stage by placing the model on a flat surface known to be level. A spirit level is placed on the spine of the fuselage and the nose wheel adjusted to ensure the fuselage spine is level. Both wing root profiles are measured (and the wing tips looking for 3 degrees of washout). If the wing root is not 1 degree, then the nose wheel leg is adjusted in height. So you must have this flexibility in the nose wheel. A simple grub screw should do the trick. Failure to ensure the correct wing incidence angle is used can cause problems at the flying stage –you have been warned! If you do not have a wing incidence meter –purchase one. Vital piece of equipment.

To address your question (not that I like giving this sort of answer, because without preparing a drawing of your chosen retract mechanism, it is all measurements without a fixed reference line.)

Anyway, view the below photo of the rear U/C. The distance between the surface of the wing and the wheel surface touching the ground is 80 mm. The distance perpendicular in from the wing profile to the main U/C leg is 47 mm. The distance of the leg from the trailing edge is 116mm. Important. You can not adjust the this distance of 116mm to far. The models C of G (wrt one consideration) is set relative to the U/C position and altering this can cause problems at rotation. Consider the 80 mm as a minimum value (add say 7 mm for trimming later if you have the ability –just to be on safe side). The nose wheel leg length is adjusted just to clear the nose U/C doors and is best determined once the main rear mains are in position and the fuselage spine set at zero degrees on a flat surface.

With this basic information, you should be able to plan and design ahead.

The Frontier fuselage sides are complete now with improved decals.

Ian.


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< Message edited by EDFmodel -- 3/4/2006 1:35:09 AM >

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RE: EDF Airliner build thread - 3/4/2006 1:33:46 AM   
EDFmodel



Posts: 112
Joined: 8/20/2004
From: Queensland, , AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		I have recently updated the specs for the 301 version 3 (Alfa fans) at http://www.edfmodel.com/content.asp?PageID=12433.

The battery recommendation remain the same for version 2 or 3 (Graupner or Alfa).

They are

Batteries for the Hacker option - two 2s Lithium Polymer Poly-Quest 2100-3300mAh batteries wired in series.

What capacity battery?

This depends on your 301 model setup preference. Using a 3300 mAh battery will produce a flight time of around 15 minutes (with the model flown slow and scale like). However, this also produces a heavier model required to fly faster. A 2200 mAh size battery will provide a lighter model with flight times of around 10 minutes.

What brand of battery?

New generation of batteries are always appearing and it depends on whether you want the latest. There are two Polyquest selections and a Hyperion choice.

From the below options two 2s batteries are required to be joined in series.

Option #1 - Poly-Quest -latest development in batteries

Poly-Quest PQ-2100XP 20-30C Packs - 2100mAh, 42.0A Continuous
Poly-Quest PQ-2500XP 20-30C Packs - 2500mAh, 50.0A Continuous
Poly-Quest PQ-3300XP 20-30C Packs - 3300mAh, 66.0A Continuous

Option #2 - Poly-Quest -old design and still around (slightly cheaper)

Poly-Quest 2200mAh SLIM 12C-16C Lithium-Polymer
Poly-Quest 2200mAh SLIM 12C-16C Lithium-Polymer
Poly-Quest 3100mAh SLIM 12C-16C Lithium-Polymer

Option #3 - Hyperion -slightly higher discharge rates

HP-LVX2100 20-30C Packs - 2100mAh, 42.0A Continuous
HP-LVX2500 20-30C Packs - 2500mAh, 50.0A Continuous
HP-LVX3300 20-30C Packs - 3300mAh, 66.0A Continuous


Ian.



< Message edited by EDFmodel -- 3/4/2006 2:14:16 AM >

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RE: EDF Airliner build thread - 3/4/2006 1:43:47 AM   
EDFmodel



Posts: 112
Joined: 8/20/2004
From: Queensland, , AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		a) I have two brand new Hacker B40's motors still in their boxes and never been used that would suit the Graupner fan option. These are going cheap. Anyone wishing them please send PM.

b) The Graupner fan option is a good option for the 301 and it flies well. If you preference is to upgrade your 301 model to version 3 (Alfa fan) and you have not assembled the carbon flat pylon to the wing please let me know and I will send you new pylons. This is the only major difference in kit. Send PM. It is still possible even if the pylons have been assembled with extension elements.

Ian.


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RE: EDF Airliner build thread - 3/4/2006 1:55:47 AM   
EDFmodel



Posts: 112
Joined: 8/20/2004
From: Queensland, , AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		I have complete the tail for the Frontier (for anyone who has not seen Frontier -they use pictures of wild animals on the fin). It is quite effective.

The fin is EPS covered in white self adhesive vinyl. Decals are then applied. The forward curved fairing is not taped into place until the fuselage is complete. This ensures a good mating been fin and fuselage.

Ian.


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RE: EDF Airliner build thread - 3/5/2006 7:33:23 AM   
EDFmodel



Posts: 112
Joined: 8/20/2004
From: Queensland, , AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Once the the decals are done, a lot of the hard work is over and assembly begins.



More later on steps to get this far.

Ian.

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RE: EDF Airliner build thread - 3/9/2006 1:18:29 AM   
EDFmodel



Posts: 112
Joined: 8/20/2004
From: Queensland, , AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Taking a step backwards a little and looking at how the fuselage is put together.

One common difficulty some modellers have had is in cutting the fuselage joiner strips straight and accurately. There is an easy way to do this. A Metre long steel rule, two pairs of hands and a sharp heavy knife. I think the problem starts with the assumption cutting a strip of plastic 10 mm wide, 900 mm long is too easy. However if the ruler moves on you or an attempt is made to cut the plastic with one pass of the knife, then the strip edges are not straight and one has to start again.

Having said that, use two pairs of hands, cut the plastic with two passes of the knife and with patience it is easy.

The next step is to glue the joiner strips together. Tape the 12 mm strip in a straight line to the table surface. Scratch a line down the center of the strip and with Zap or Flash CA (only) place a thin line of glue along the strip length. The scratch holds the CA glue in place. Use the nozzle provided with the glue. Progressively lay the strips one atop of the other and the job is done. One tip is to ensure the 10 and 12 mm strips are glued with the opposite natural curve of the plastic opposing.

There joiner strips are taped temporarily into position on the outside of one fuselage shell, fuselages joined and masking tape placed on the inside over the joiner strips. A strong fuselage shell is achieved.

How is everyone else getting on?

Ian.


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RE: EDF Airliner build thread - 3/9/2006 4:22:50 AM   
Splitpin


 

Posts: 6
Joined: 11/22/2005
From: Christchurch, NEW ZEALAND
Status: offline 		Ian's dead right, the worst mistake is thinking this is easy. It's not hard but care is needed.
It can be done without an extra pair of hands if you don't keep spares

Tape the 1m rule to your bench. Butt the plastic sheet up to it and tape the sheet's opposite edge to the bench along it's entire length, this ensures the plastic is straight to start with. I tape the two sides as well, we do not want it to move.
Lift the rule. Tape the rule to the sheet and bench at your first set of marks along it's entire length so noooo slipage can occur. With the plastic and rule all taped down, the cut isn't hard. Light pressure on the knife , 3 or 4 passes at least but take as many as you need, heavy pressure will distort the edge and tend to want to move the plastic. Move and tape the rule to the next set of marks and repeat.
This method works well, it does take meters of tape but there's no arguements about who let the rule slip, or who wasn't careful with the knife.
Oh yeah ... use a NEW blade it's worth it, a neat job here helps the fuse go together more easily , and the top strip is of course a 'finish' item that will be seen.

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       Post #: 36

RE: EDF Airliner build thread - 3/9/2006 3:05:02 PM   
mkranitz



Posts: 1027
Joined: 4/18/2002
From: Lone Tree, CO, USA
Status: offline 		Ian, do you actually have strips reinforcing the inside AND outside of the fuse? Or, are the ones that appear to be on the outside just temporary?

Also, the joined fuse looks great. How did you get the brilliant white finish?

Lastly, snap a picture of the Hacker motors and post them here and I'll put them up for sale in the market area.

Michael

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(in reply to Splitpin)
       Post #: 37

RE: EDF Airliner build thread - 3/9/2006 8:47:07 PM   
Splitpin