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RE: EDF Airliner build thread - 3/21/2006 3:09 PM   
mkranitz



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Status: offline 		I like the cowls, Ian. So I take it that the entire stab assembly moves to provide pitch?

mk

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RE: EDF Airliner build thread - 3/21/2006 3:22 PM   
EDFmodel



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absolutely and with respect to another who has split the stabiliser to include elevators, I would not have it any other way. Pitch control is important and an all moving stabiliser provides smooth control. The other aspect is keeping it simple with a lesser of parts.

All the EDFmodel range use all moving stabilisers for this very reason.

Ian.


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RE: EDF Airliner build thread - 4/6/2006 6:02 AM   
EDFmodel



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Status: offline 		Hello All

a bit quiet lately working behind the scenes on a few interesting things. Some of you are doing the same from what you have mentioned to me. As soon as we are all ready, it will make interesting viewing.

As an update on engine specs for the 301, some tests have been completed. In summary - The Mega 16/7/4 motor will work for the 301 on 1 3S battery. Technically it is not as good as the Hacker B20, but I like the option because of the lower cost, the Alfa aluminum adapter (3.2 mm) does not have to be machined and one battery is required.

More work on Frontier shortly.

Brushless motors -Mega 16/7/4 or Hacker B20-15L.

Which motor?

The Hacker motor is the superior performing motor. However it comes at a higher price than the Mega motor and requires 2x2S batteries. Alternatively the Mega at a lower cost, on one 3S battery will provide good performance.

Mega motor (option #1)

Two Mega 16/7/4 brushless motors on a 3S setup, in the 301 cowling, produces around 410g of thrust at 13.8 Amps at 143 watts per motor. (Order the 3.2 mm Alfa fan aluminum adaptor for the Mega motor).

Batteries -Mega option

Either

3S Poly-Quest PQ-3300XP 20-30C - 3300mAh,
3S Hyperion HP-LVX3300 20-30C - 3300mAh

Hacker motor (option #2)

Two Hacker B20-15L, Kv 3700 motors on a 2x2S setup, in the 301 cowling, produces around 510g of thrust, 13.5 Amps at 185 watts per motor. (Order the 2.0 mm Alfa fan aluminum adaptor for the Hacker motor).

Batteries -Hacker option - two 2s Lithium Polymer Poly-Quest 2100-3300mAh batteries wired in series. Using 3300 mAh battery packs will produce a flight time of around 15 minutes (with the model flown slow and scale like). However, this also produces a heavier model required to fly faster. 2100 mAh packs will provide a lighter model with flight times of around 10 minutes. 2500 mAh packs sits mid range.

Poly-Quest batteries

2 x 2S Poly-Quest PQ-2100XP 20-30C Packs- 2100mAh
2 x 2S Poly-Quest PQ-3300XP 20-30C Packs - 3300mAh


Hyperion batteries -slightly higher discharge rates

2 x 2S HP-LVX2100 20-30C Packs - 2100mAh
2 x 2S HP-LVX3300 20-30C Packs - 3300mAh

Ian.


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RE: EDF Airliner build thread - 4/7/2006 2:46 AM   
serdark


 

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Status: offline 		Hello All,

The construction of my 301 is a little behind schedule since I was busy with my engineering job (putting food on the table and paying for this hobby). Hiowever, I have completed the conceptual design and constructed the parts I would need to for the assembly.

IMPORTANT NOTE:
THE ORIGINAL 301 KIT DOES NOT REQUIRE ANY CHANGES. I AM SIMPLY EXPERIMENTING WITH A FEW IDEAS AND I WILL CONSIDER MYSELF LUCKY IF THE MODEL STILL FLIES AFTER ALL THE THINGS I HAVE CHANGED SO FAR.

Back to the subject: The modified 301 kit will have fowler flaps (two split flaps on each side, and I have managed to do so by adding no more than 5 oz to the overall weight. Another change is the modified winglet design. I have also added 50 sqin to the overall wing area compensating for all the additions, maintaining the original wing loading.

Well, stay tuned to see it before April is out.

Serdar

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RE: EDF Airliner build thread - 4/7/2006 3:36 AM   
EDFmodel



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Sounds incredibly amazing. I am definitely looking forward to this.

To make matters even more interesting, another is doing something equally impressive and independent (of which I can not speak), but it will appear.

All round, this is going to be fun.

Busy this end with a few tricks up my own sleeve too.

Ian.



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RE: EDF Airliner build thread - 4/7/2006 4:51 AM   
Eddie P



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Status: offline 		Nice work guys!

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RE: EDF Airliner build thread - 4/9/2006 7:38 AM   
EDFmodel



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Status: offline 		More progress on the 301 Frontier Airliner.

Some may not have seen our models before or understand EDFmodel’s building philosophy. The two photos perhaps give one insight.

Once the major subassemblies for the fuselage are complete they are then all assembled to produce the complete fuselage. No glues are used in bringing the sub assemblies together.

If a model suffers damage at the airfield there can be nothing more frustrating than cutting and re-gluing bits and pieces. A repair should not take so much time and effort that it destroys the modeller’s enthusiasm. My view is models should quickly come apart for inspection and part maintenance. Additionally, upon impact much energy can be dissipated before any serious damage is done because parts can ‘give’ a little. Nylon screws pop out for example.

The challenge is to actually fly the model and keep it flying.

My dislike of balsa comes about because of the need to start “butt-gluing” wood together forming rigid structures and ‘foamy’ type models tend to suffer that gradual hanger damage just putting them in the car. Another silly example is gluing landing gear legs to styrene wings in the hope they stay there on a rough landing.

I believe more energy in the model workshop should be directed toward developing better assembly technologies for the construction of electric models. One answer is designs that are modular which offer improved model impact resistance with ease of maintenance. Your model costs halve with every bad accident because generally you can repair the model.

I appreciate my views are not for everyone and so please no one take any offense.

Ian.


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< Message edited by EDFmodel -- 4/9/2006 8:20 AM >

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RE: EDF Airliner build thread - 4/10/2006 1:14 AM   
EDFmodel



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Status: offline 		More pictures




Ian

< Message edited by EDFmodel -- 4/10/2006 1:17 AM >

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RE: EDF Airliner build thread - 4/10/2006 3:15 PM   
serdark


 

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Status: offline 		Ian,

I agree with you 100%, especially the design is so clean and easy to assemble yet eye pleasing. I wish you had a larger model that could carry a wireless camera for aerial video broadcast.

Serdar

< Message edited by serdark -- 4/12/2006 1:21 AM >

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RE: EDF Airliner build thread - 4/10/2006 3:16 PM   
serdark


 

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Status: offline 		Orville! it will not fly!!

You have forgotten to add a wing to this aircraft!

Serdar

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RE: EDF Airliner build thread - 4/10/2006 3:23 PM   
EDFmodel



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Status: offline 		Cheers

There is some very exciting designs on my table. This year just might see your wish come true.

How is every one else getting on with there 3O1's

Ian.

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RE: EDF Airliner build thread - 4/10/2006 4:28 PM   
mkranitz



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Status: offline 		Ian,

This bird is outstanding!! I'm extremely excited to get my hands on it. When I responded to your email, I was replying to the previous photos and had not received my email notice of these recent ones.

1. The modularity is very intriguing. I like the concept. Butt joints are for butt heads.

2. Do you intend to test fly this before you ship it stateside?

MK

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RE: EDF Airliner build thread - 4/11/2006 12:32 PM   
EDFmodel



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Status: offline 		One is standing at runways end. Model is set to go.

The heart begins racing at a million miles an hour. Will it fly? Have I thought of everything? Will my reactions be quick enough? What will the modellers watching think of my skills?

Michael, fly it and steal all this pleasure away from you.

Not a chance.

There is not a drug better that gets the heart ticking than the virgin flight.

Ian.

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RE: EDF Airliner build thread - 4/11/2006 4:31 PM   
mkranitz



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Status: offline 		Yeah, but my mom always told me not to take drugs!

I likely won't get to maiden this myself (at least not the landing). I am not comfortable with my own landing skills to risk damaging the jet so I would have my buddy do the landing. Everything else I can handle. I would NOT want to mess it up. Regardless, I shall take the daunting task in hand and do it.

BTW...did I send you a receiver?

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RE: EDF Airliner build thread - 4/11/2006 9:14 PM   
serdark


 

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Status: offline 		Guys,

Don't worry about the landing, it will land one way or the other. Noone has ever left a plane in the air.

Serdar

< Message edited by serdark -- 4/12/2006 4:39 AM >

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RE: EDF Airliner build thread - 4/13/2006 5:24 AM   
EDFmodel



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Status: offline 		Update notes on the use of the Alfa fan & Hacker motor with 301

The Alfa Mega fan version (Alfa fan 1502 Mk 2 Mega) has a 28mm wide engine housing designed for the mega motor. However, the Hacker at 20mm will fit this unit. The screws line up and all that happens is that there is a gap between motor and housing which is of no consequence. Hence this version is more versatile because both motor options (Hacker & Mega) can be used. The Alfa fan Mega version comes with 3.2 mm shaft adapter

It is also correct the Alfa fan 1502 Mk 2 version for the 300 motor can be used with the Hacker ( but not Mega motor) and comes with 2.0mm adapter.

In either case, the aluminium adapter has to be modified to match the 2.3 mm Hacker shaft.

There are two ways of doing this (we have tried both methods).

a) Machine the 2.0 mm adapter out to 2.3 mm with a drill press. This takes great care and can be difficult because any misalignment of the drill and one can not balance the rotor.

b) Perhaps the better option is to 'sleeve' the hacker 2.3 motor shaft with some K & B brass tube (which is commonly available) and use the 3.2 mm aluminium adapter. The aluminium adapter is machined and tapped to allow a 2 mm grub screw in the side to hold motor shaft and sleeve in place. This is the far easier option and works very well. Lockite is applied

So in summary, if you have the 3.2 adapter then use it. If you have the 1502 MK 2 (Mega version) then use this. If not, 1502 Mk 2 version (20mm housing is also ok for the Hacker). With the sleeved option we have had the motor running on 5s (yes 5s!)

Ian.

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RE: EDF Airliner build thread - 4/13/2006 6:30 AM   
mkranitz



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Status: offline 		So are you at the stage of attaching the motors to the wings??

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RE: EDF Airliner build thread - 4/13/2006 7:26 AM   
EDFmodel



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The wings are underway and not quite at that section. Others are though.

Ian.

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RE: EDF Airliner build thread - 4/17/2006 2:58 AM   
serdark


 

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Status: offline 		My 301 assembly is moving, yet very slowly. This weekend I have assembled the wing and the winglets. I have installed the navigational lights and the white strobes (facing back at the wingtip). Also the landing lights (halogen) have been installed. The lights have their own reflector and are focused forward but the cylindrical holes are also covered with chrome to enable the lights to illuminate sideways also.

Since I have extended the wing length, I thought I might as well shape the new wingtips, go thinner as I move towards the end, add a 105 degrees bend and blend it with the foam-board winglets. Of course the new section is reinforced but still flexible. The wires for lighting go through aluminum pipes which double as reinforcing struts inside the foam wing extensions.

A big part of the mid-section has been removed and the carbon plates have been re-shaped to make room for the retractable gears. Naturally the aluminum chassis for the gears can not be used, but a newly shaped aluminum part will be used.

Next is the assembly of the flaps, ailerons and applying the wing skins. I will use brushed chrome all through the wings (same material in the kit is for the leading edges of the wing). I have also experimented with real aluminum (kitchen wrap) and got outstanding realism. I used a special plastic spray (water based) which makes styrofoam solvent proof, which is essential if you want to use real aluminum. This requires extreme care (it is easy to wrinkle aluminum) and a lot of time, which I do not have. But if you like to learn more, please drop me an email at elk75_serdar@yahoo.com.

More to come...

Serdar

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< Message edited by serdark -- 4/19/2006 7:21 PM >

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RE: EDF Airliner build thread - 4/18/2006 5:30 AM   
EDFmodel



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Nice work. I can not wait to see the finished wing.

You said "The wires for lighting go through aluminum pipes which double as reinforcing struts inside the foam wing" -did you replace the carbon spar?

What sort of AWU are you aiming for ?

Ian.


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RE: EDF Airliner build thread - 4/19/2006 1:19 AM   
serdark


 

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Status: offline 		Carbon spars are in there, aluminum is for the extended wing tips. I could have used brass (more flexible) but I needed lesser weight.

Serdar

< Message edited by serdark -- 4/19/2006 1:47 PM >

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RE: EDF Airliner build thread - 4/21/2006 12:27 PM   
EDFmodel



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Status: offline 		Progress on Mr Z's 301.

Ian.

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RE: EDF Airliner build thread - 4/21/2006 12:44 PM   
EDFmodel



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Ian.

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RE: EDF Airliner build thread - 4/26/2006 7:24 AM   
EDFmodel



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Status: offline 		Mr Zimmermann of Perth has been busy again with his second 301.

He has added retracts.

I know others have some amazing models to show as well. Stay tuned.

Ian.

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RE: EDF Airliner build thread - 4/26/2006 8:19 AM   
mkranitz



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Status: offline 		She's a beaut! Hey Ian, what's up with Frontier Airlines these days??

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