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RE: Quick newb question: How to discharge packs? - 3/10/2006 2:10:22 AM   
JNorton



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From: Montague, MI, USA
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You've done a great job. Have a great time driving your car. Thanks for doing two more tests at 14 to 16 hours. My curiosity is boundless since I'm not the one doing the tests!

John

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RE: Quick newb question: How to discharge packs? - 3/10/2006 3:47:30 PM   
Alfalfameister


 

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A little off topic:

I wrote to West Mountain, and hope to hear their reply.

quote:

I am very interested in the CBA II.

I have two questions/concerns:

Concern # 1: I heard (from an internet forum) that you will have a 160A/500w continuous rate Add-On for the CBA II.

The reason why we (R/C car guys) are looking forward to this is because we discharge our packs at 30 to 35 amps. Now, a 6-cell (sub-C) IB or GP battery can be rated 3700 to 4300 mah nowadays, which makes the 150W somewhat of a limitation.

In your FAQ, larger batteries than 3.5 amp (such as a 6-cell GP 3700 or IB 4200) max out at 100 Watts, or roughly 14 amps... Which is why the 500w continuous rate I heard about sounds very promising. Heck, at 250w, then I could already discharge at the 35 amps that I want!

Concern #2: Most dischargers I know can discharge at a CONSTANT amperage (say 35 amps). Is there no way, via a software modification, that a discharger can be progammed to "simulate" the actual amp draw of a motor of a car in a race?

You know, something like a pattern of 35 amps (or more) for 2 seconds, followed by 5 amps for 2 seconds, then 10 amps for 1.5 second, and then the cycle repeats itself, maybe even with a half-a-second with zero amps (simulating braking, for instance).

This way, the discharger would simulate what a battery may actually go through while in a car (long straight at 100% throttle, medium speed corner at 1/4 throttle, high speed corner at 70% throttle, full braking with (obviously) zero throttle...).

If that could be done, then that would be ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC.

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RE: Quick newb question: How to discharge packs? - 3/13/2006 12:03:13 AM   
Alfalfameister


 

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7.351 63 38 2663 13:04
7.321 74 34.2 2541 12:28
7.257 74 34.8 2473 12:08
7.331 68 35.4 2384 11:42
7.284 71 37.1 2520 12:22
7.232 78 33.7 2487 12:12

Again, VOLT - IR - TEMP - MAH - TIME (10 amp discharge, 6.6v cutoff)

The last two were charged at 400mah (according to MuchMore cellmaster) for 14 and 16 hours respectively (the 16 hour one was even less? Probably tolerances or whatever).

I will now do one complete discharge and tray, then charge at 3.3 amps (1C) until it delta peaks, as opposed to the stepcharging done at 6 or more amps...

I believe that 1C charging will prove equal to 2C charging, and be considerably nicer to the batteries. Or rather, 2C is just reserved to the pro drivers who can tell the difference...

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RE: Quick newb question: How to discharge packs? - 3/13/2006 12:27:01 AM   
JNorton



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Joined: 1/29/2002
From: Montague, MI, USA
Status: online
Very interesting information. I'll admit I'm stumped as to the results. I'd expected to see them much closer to the phase II results. Thanks again for taking the time to do the tests.
John

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RE: Quick newb question: How to discharge packs? - 3/13/2006 12:53:11 AM   
Alfalfameister


 

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I am no engineer (I mean, see my spelling and punctuation to verify! Heheh! just kidding! I love "yous" guys!), but here's my guess: a faster charge (say, 1C or more) can increase charge acceptance? Kinda like putting air in a container (compressed air)... the stronger the pressure to put air inside the container, the higher the psi can be. If you're just "trickling" the air in, then it won't be as compressed: you would end up filling the container, but not compressing it much.

Maybe a slow charge (C/10) and a fast (C/1) is kinda like that. Remember also that the batteries were discharged IMMEDIATELY after charging. I mean, what if I charge two (hypothetically) identical batteries, one at C/10 (14-16 hours), and the other at C, and let both SIT for a few hours, or even overnight after charging... maybe they would "equalize".

Right after charging at 2C, the voltage is rather high, but was slowly going down (in millivolts) as soon as the charger is stopped.

Next, these are used batteries that I used (who knows as to what their condition was?). Perhaps the internal resistance was too high, that too slow a charge and the charge acceptance suffered (they were probably always charged at 1C to 2C by the previous owner, being a car guy).

Finally, this "experiment" was being done with only one sample (I can hear a collective gasp from yous engineers!).

And finally (really finally), we only saw the average voltage. Would have been nice to see a graph like that done by the CBA. I would get the CBA, but Christmas is still far off... however, if sales in my garments business picks up with all the re-engineering (!!!) we have done as regards to sales and people training, I will reward myself with the CBA II Pro (whenever that comes out).

Boys will be boys, and we need our toys.

For John: I know your wife didn't allow you to get the CBA, so here's my tip for you: don't go googling about the CBA because you'd end up salivating.

(in reply to JNorton)
       Post #: 80

RE: Quick newb question: How to discharge packs? - 3/13/2006 1:24:45 AM   
JNorton



Posts: 3134
Joined: 1/29/2002
From: Montague, MI, USA
Status: online
quote:

For John: I know your wife didn't allow you to get the CBA, so here's my tip for you: don't go googling about the CBA because you'd end up salivating.
I've known about the CBA since they first became available. Really did not have a use for them. Bought a Tenma 72-7245 Power Supply instead.
http://www.newark.com/NewarkWebCommerce/newark/en_US/endecaSearch/partDetail.jsp;jsessionid=5NX4SQMUHLC5QCXDUY2SFGQK2OTCIIV1?SKU=22H6396&N=0[/link]

John

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RE: Quick newb question: How to discharge packs? - 3/13/2006 2:37:49 PM   
richrd


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfalfameister

I am no engineer (I mean, see my spelling and punctuation to verify! Heheh! just kidding! I love "yous" guys!), but here's my guess: a faster charge (say, 1C or more) can increase charge acceptance? Kinda like putting air in a container (compressed air)... the stronger the pressure to put air inside the container, the higher the psi can be. If you're just "trickling" the air in, then it won't be as compressed: you would end up filling the container, but not compressing it much.

Maybe a slow charge (C/10) and a fast (C/1) is kinda like that. Remember also that the batteries were discharged IMMEDIATELY after charging. I mean, what if I charge two (hypothetically) identical batteries, one at C/10 (14-16 hours), and the other at C, and let both SIT for a few hours, or even overnight after charging... maybe they would "equalize".

Right after charging at 2C, the voltage is rather high, but was slowly going down (in millivolts) as soon as the charger is stopped.



Sweet anal logy hee hee.. so we think best, beet the crap out of them, ok I can do that. My bet ! was highest Vpk and highest inputted capacity gives best discharge curve. SO it seems that form charge limits the Vpk because it starts to recombine the reaction of chemical process before you can max the voltage like at 1C can over drive the reaction. Hence form is better for battery longevity but not so good for racing.

BTW John nothing beats a good lab P.S. got many myself, mostly home brew thou.
Rich

(in reply to Alfalfameister)
       Post #: 82

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