Which Brand of Resin Should I use?  
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Which Brand of Resin Should I use? - 3/1/2003 10:25:20 AM   
duvlitho


 

Posts: 5
Joined: 2/16/2002
Status: offline 		I use West Epoxy......when I had questions I called their tech support. They even ran experiments for me for no charge and called me back with the results! All this and I hadn't even bought their product yet! Does customer service get any better than this? They sure went above and beyond in helping me.

Dustin

(in reply to cactusflyer)
       Post #: 26

Which Brand of Resin Should I use? - 3/1/2003 11:06:37 AM   
AirRayInc



Posts: 922
Joined: 12/30/2001
From: San Pedro, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Winship,
sure sounds like you have your finger on the pulse here.

Let me see if I can narrow the question down.

I currently use West Systems, I am not looking to drop brands for any other reason at this point, than to save money. But not at a sacrifice of the West System performance. Keeping the properties of the the West System 105 resin and 205/206 hardeners in mind, my personal inquiry is, does or will the US Composites offer the same performance.
-in wetting ability
-sanding ability
-layup vs layup strength comparison.

I wouldnt even consider it, but the monetary savings is pretty substantial enough to warrant investigation. Else, I would stick with the West Systems.

TiA,
Ray

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       Post #: 27

Which Brand of Resin Should I use? - 3/2/2003 5:10:00 AM   
winship


 

Posts: 151
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Plainfield, IN, USA
Status: offline 		One of the biggest drawbacks to west system epoxy is the low heat tolerance. I have seen parts distort under heat that were fabricated with this resin. One example was a fiberglass hatch on a pattern plane that was held down with a rubber band. When the part was subjected to the sun and the pull of the rubber band a dimple was noticeable due to the resin softening. Another example is on some cowlings that are covering some gas burning engines. Also think of part b and part a of the resin as nuts and bolts. One nut to one bolt. If there are any nuts and bolts left over floating around adding nothing to the structural integrity of the mix then you have a curred part that has decreased structural properties and decreased heat resistance. I always mix my epoxy on a triple beam gram scale to come as close as possible to the optimum ratio of resin to hardener. Always mix your epoxies by weight and not volume. With all of this said be sure to stir the mixture and scrape the sides of the (wax free) container thoroughly.

A spec sheet is critical to choosing the right resin for your application. different types of epoxies can be categorized as follows. Casting, Adhesive and Paste, Surface Coats and Laminating. In a good spec sheet they will give a description of the resin such as Grey, high temp. resistant room temp cure etc. It will have a mix ratio by weight and volume. The working life at what temperature usually room temp 77F and at what mass. Viscosity @ 25F cps. I wish I had the comparison chart of viscosity. Water is 0 so anything greater than 0 gets thicker. A good wetting epoxy is around 500 cps. Some of the resininfusion systems are around 200cps to 300cps. Typical cure schedule is also included. this will include time and temperature variables. Tensile Elongation% Tensile Strength psi. Shore Hardness such as D-90 the higher the number the harder the resin.

The more you work with different resins and formulations and study their corresponding spec sheets the easier it becomes to choose the right resin.

I have experimented with some resins that when mixed they were like honey and would remain that way for a day or two. Once placed into an oven and heated to around 250F the viscosity would drop to what seemed like water and would cure in a matter of one hour when bumped up to 350F. If I was fabricating a large race car part by hand wetting and needed alot of time for the layup, bathroom breaks and a lunch and needed the part to be able to stand some heat when finished it would be the right one. If memory serves me correctly I think it was Shell RSL 1988 research resin with a curring agent W. To be sure I would have to go out in the shop and dig up my records and spec sheet.

On a further note on molds. I was told by some professional fabricators that make Indy car parts and repairs in the Indianapolis area that they made the molds out of the same material (carbon and or Glass) and resins as the part they were going to make due to the coefficient of thermal expansion issue. CTE can work against you or with you depending on part/mold geometry etc. For example, if you wanted a part that would withstand 250F choose a resin that could be post cured to 300F for the mold and cure the part in that mold to 250F. Once you have a high temp mold you can always make room temp parts but not the other way around. One of the biggest advantages of a high temp cure is the turn around on making parts. With room temp cured resins you will wait all day for a part and with high temp resin (if chosen the right one) it is possible to pop a part after a few hours or less and have a part that is superior to in temp and chemical resistance. If using room temp cured resins a good warmer oven box at about 100F to 120F will speed up the cure process and give a better part.

Hope this helps,
Dan Winship

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       Post #: 28

Which Brand of Resin Should I use? - 3/2/2003 9:42:23 PM   
winship


 

Posts: 151
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Plainfield, IN, USA
Status: offline 		Freeman Mfg. & Supply Co
Newsletter for February, 2003
http://www.freemansupply.com

Good source for video and written information both offline and online. Good supplier of support materials for composite fabrication (tooling boards, tooling wax etc.) along with Vantico resins user guide. Subscribe to their newsletter and get the updates.

(in reply to cactusflyer)
       Post #: 29

Which Brand of Resin Should I use? - 3/2/2003 9:47:44 PM   
winship


 

Posts: 151
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Plainfield, IN, USA
Status: offline 		Ren RP1500 Epoxy Hardener


Ren RP1510 Epoxy Hardener


Ren RP1520 Epoxy Hardener


Ren RP-1700-1 Unfilled Laminating System and Adhesive (Translucent)
2000 cps Viscosity / 20 Min Gel Time / 90D Shore Hardness


Ren RP-1710 White General Purpose Laminating System (White)
3500 cps Viscosity / 22 Min Gel Time / 90D Shore Hardness


Ren RP-1720 Dimensionally Stable Laminating System (White)
2200 cps Viscosity / 24 Min Gel Time / 86D Shore Hardness


Ren RP-3270 Silicon-Carbide Filled Wear Resistant Laminating System (Blue)
3600 cps Viscosity / 28 Min Gel Time / 84D Shore Hardness


Ren RP-4005R / RP-1500H Unfilled High-Temperature Laminating System (Amber)
1900 cps Viscosity / 50 Min Gel Time / 90D Shore Hardness


Ren RP-4014R / RP-1500H Aluminum-Filled High Temperature Laminating System(Gray)
4000 cps Viscosity / 55 Min Gel Time / 90D Shore Hardness


Ren RP-4017R / RP-1510H High-Temperature Laminating System (Black)
8000 cps Viscosity / 90 Min Gel Time / 93D Shore Hardness


Ren CGL-1310 Resin / RP 1520H Ultra High Temperature Laminating System (Black)
7700 cps Viscosity / 960 Min Gel Time / 87D Shore Hardness


Ren RP 8100 Room Temperature, Unfilled Laminating System (Clear)
1,350 cps Viscosity / 90 Gel Time / 92D Shore Hardness


Ren RP 8105 Variable-Speed Unfilled High Temperature Laminating Resin(Lt. Amber)
2200 -5500 cps Viscosity / 40-180 Min Gel Time / 90D-92D Shore Hardness


Ren RP 8110 Room Temperature Laminating Systems (White)
1450 cps Viscosity / 128 Min. Gel Time / 90D Shore Hardness


Ren RP 8114 Variable-Speed High Temperature Laminating Resin (Gray)
4000-6700 cps Viscosity / 52-180 Min Gel Time / 90D-92D Shore Hardness

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       Post #: 30

Which Brand of Resin Should I use? - 3/22/2003 12:56:47 AM   
doctor jason



Posts: 169
Joined: 7/25/2002
From: Essex, AZ, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		west 105 and 209 are used all the time in my workshop and i use approx 50 kgs a year .as far as i am concerned it is by far the best epoxy o the market

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       Post #: 31

Which Brand of Resin Should I use? - 3/22/2003 8:22:09 PM   
winship


 

Posts: 151
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Plainfield, IN, USA
Status: offline 		doctor jason

Hi Doctor Jason, West Systems epoxy is a great epoxy. What I was trying to convey in the posts above is there is no one epoxy that will work for every application and the person fabricating the part should consider many variables and choose the right resin for the job. For the general hobbyist West Systems is hard to beat for most applications but if you are manufacturing parts that require higher heat distortion, lower viscosity etc. you will need to look further.

When I first started to make composite parts I was searching for the miracle resin and to some degree I found a resin that was perfect for the part I was making untill I tried to use it on another vastly different part and found out that it was unsuitable.

Dan Winship

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       Post #: 32

Which Brand of Resin Should I use? - 3/22/2003 10:03:05 PM   
NE0



Posts: 1170
Joined: 7/30/2002
From: Newark, OH, USA
Status: offline 		Guys,

Great info on West Systems resin... what is your opinion of it for general fuse & wing glassing over balsa sheeting? I'm trying to decide on the best resin for my project, and have been looking very seriously at this product.

Thanks,

Neo

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       Post #: 33

Which Brand of Resin Should I use? - 3/22/2003 10:57:12 PM   
TT2



Posts: 648
Joined: 3/19/2002
From: Osborn, MO, USA
Status: offline 		I've used West Systems for years and agree that it's a fine epoxy for certain applications but I've recently been trying other systems to find an epoxy that doesn't require post-curing to achieve a suitable (+/- 160 degrees F) heat deflection temperature, is easy to wet out, pysiologically friendly (to a certain degree) and doesn't cost a forturne. I think I've found it (except it's pretty expensive).

NEO, why don't you just use polyurethane to glass over sheeted surfaces? Much easier, quicker, and LIGHTER than epoxy. If you're using glass for structural beefing the West Systems should work fine for you...just avoid using dark colors over it and keep it out of the sun as much as possible or you'll be in big trouble .

-Tom

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Which Brand of Resin Should I use? - 3/23/2003 2:23:25 AM   
NE0



Posts: 1170
Joined: 7/30/2002
From: Newark, OH, USA
Status: offline 		TT2,

Thanks. The topside of my warbird is a very dark blue... sounds like you wouldn't advise WS epoxy in that scenario?

I haven't ruled out polyurethane... are you referring to water-based poly? That sounds great from all I've read, but the potential warping of my balsa due to the moisture in the poly scares the bajeezas out of me.

Neo

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Which Brand of Resin Should I use? - 3/23/2003 2:44:06 AM   
TT2



Posts: 648
Joined: 3/19/2002
From: Osborn, MO, USA
Status: offline 		In that case I'd stay away from WS.

If you have foam sheeted surfaces, the water-based poly is probably your best bet. If the surfaces are built-up sheeted then the 'regular' sovent-based poly will be fine and won't tend to warp like the water-based has been reported to.

You might try System 2000 epoxy available from FiberGlast...great stuff!

-Tom

_____________________________

As complexity approaches infinity, mean time before failure approaches zero...

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       Post #: 36

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