Posts: 402
Joined: 1/14/2005 From: Naples,
FL, USA Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: xXMAGIKXx
Imports own muscle cars. It was funny in my car and driver magazine they a evo and they put about 40 grand into it and it did 11.3 in the 1/4 mile. A new twin turbo viper that cost about 115 grand did 11.2 The evo owns!!!
xXMAGIKXx
If I put $40k into a new car, and it only did 11.30s, I'd be pretty pissed off....... Heck, I could hit that with my new GTO for way less than $10k, and wouldn't have to drive an EVO...... I could do it with my '66 for even less than that. I am kissing the 11's right now with a $7k engine in a 3700 lb car that is completely streetable......
There is simply no replacement for displacement.......
< Message edited by Tripower455 -- 8/1/2006 9:45:07 PM >
Posts: 1623
Joined: 1/31/2006 From: gardiner,
MT, USA Status: offline
NO.... There is simply no replacement for the best design. Chevy engines seem to allways pul stronger and harder than a dodge, ford, or any other engine if they cost the same and same displacement. Want to know how what you would need to biuld a 10 second car? Ok get a chavelle, thats probubly $2000-$4000, some were in there, get seom nice hooker tires and some weld rims $1000-$2000,100 shot of nitrous, $500-$1000. . Put a chevy 572 crate engine in for $5000, get it blue printed and balenced, $500.GEt a supercharger, $2000, and get new axles, 4 link suspension, and a terbo and a alison tranny, thats going to be about $6000 wright there. After that just strip the car and fabricate a 4 point roll cage and you can run in the 9- classes. And by then you have a car that costs less than $20,000, has 800-1200 hp and will eat ANY TUNER, and most every thing else that costs less than $20,000. You realy can not get a better car for that mch money. And the transmision is what would help make it so fast, you can get alison trannys that are indestructable, 6 spd, automatics! Beat that with a terbo 400 !
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Posts: 402
Joined: 1/14/2005 From: Naples,
FL, USA Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: ScRacing
NO.... There is simply no replacement for the best design. Chevy engines seem to allways pul stronger and harder than a dodge, ford, or any other engine if they cost the same and same displacement. Want to know how what you would need to biuld a 10 second car? Ok get a chavelle, thats probubly $2000-$4000, some were in there, get seom nice hooker tires and some weld rims $1000-$2000,100 shot of nitrous, $500-$1000. . Put a chevy 572 crate engine in for $5000, get it blue printed and balenced, $500.GEt a supercharger, $2000, and get new axles, 4 link suspension, and a terbo and a alison tranny, thats going to be about $6000 wright there. After that just strip the car and fabricate a 4 point roll cage and you can run in the 9- classes. And by then you have a car that costs less than $20,000, has 800-1200 hp and will eat ANY TUNER, and most every thing else that costs less than $20,000. You realy can not get a better car for that mch money. And the transmision is what would help make it so fast, you can get alison trannys that are indestructable, 6 spd, automatics! Beat that with a terbo 400 !
Balanced and blueprinted for $500?
Oh, and there are lots better designed engines than Chevies...... They were designed from the get go to to be cheap and reliable transportation. The reason that there is such an aftermarket for them is because they were always cheapest GM cars to buy, so there are lots of them out there.
Don't get me wrong, they are great engines, but not the be all end all of engine design....... They are very basic, overhead valve, pushrod V-8s (which is a good thing)..... There are some awesome aftermarket parts (blocks, rotating assemblies, heads etc..) for them too...... The basic Pontiac engine is a better designed engine than the basic Chevy, which is why it cost more. A lot of the stuff you have to add to a chevy to make it stay together and perform came stock in a Pontiac (nodular cranks, windage trays, "air gap" high rise intakes, high nickel blocks, thicker main webs, machined combustion chambers, screw in studs, high pressure oiling etc.) all the way around a better built, more durable and powerful engine, in general. Try pushing 550-600 hp through a relatively stock 2 bolt main Chevy and see how long it runs. While this is pushing the limits a bit, Pontiacs do it all the time (with studs) and live. I am also not saying that Pontiac is the epitome of engine design either, as it is still a basic, overhead valve, pushrod V8. The only real weak point, when run hard, in the short block are the stock rod bolts.
The R/S ratio of the BBC is better for an all out strip car, but I'd rather have the torque under the curve of the Pontiac for a street driver.
You can run 10.00's with less than 800 hp btw. My buddy is doing it with his '69 GTO......... with restrictor plates to keep from breaking out. The car has run in the high 9's. No power adders either.... And it's running a stroked Pontiac factory block.....
< Message edited by Tripower455 -- 8/2/2006 7:36:48 AM >
Posts: 1623
Joined: 1/31/2006 From: gardiner,
MT, USA Status: offline
yeah but a 572 makes 600 hp, and 1200ft pounds of torque stock, supercharge that and a 100 shot of nitrous and you would have one hell of a fast car. that would prydrop in the 7s if you ran it hard. Or you cna get the 572 and get the vortec system and make 720 hp and 1300 ftpounds of torqu but you cant use nitrous or a supercharger. Eather way, and i beleace they don't use studs in the 572 , althoe im not sure. eather way, you woul have to have a $100,000 in a tuner to pull off consistent 7s all day and not useing a 300 shot of nitrous eather.
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Joined: 1/14/2005 From: Naples,
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ScRacing
yeah but a 572 makes 600 hp, and 1200ft pounds of torque stock, supercharge that and a 100 shot of nitrous and you would have one hell of a fast car. that would prydrop in the 7s if you ran it hard. Or you cna get the 572 and get the vortec system and make 720 hp and 1300 ftpounds of torqu but you cant use nitrous or a supercharger. Eather way, and i beleace they don't use studs in the 572 , althoe im not sure. eather way, you woul have to have a $100,000 in a tuner to pull off consistent 7s all day and not useing a 300 shot of nitrous eather.
The 572 is a great engine... 1200 lbs of torque and only 600 hp? How do it do dat? The ZZ572 makes 621/650 on the 9.6:1 CR version and 720/685 on the 12.0:1 out of the crate..... Both will get you into the 10.00s with no power adders in a street driven car, but you'll need good gas for the latter.
I assume that the 572 has 4 bolt mains, or is beefed up considerably compared to a bread and butter BBC.
I agree 100% about the tuner comparison, but it's not as much a design difference as it is displacement. Any large cube V8 will be far easier to build for power than any 4 banger, which is half an engine.
FWIW, my 462 is making about the same HP and torque (better at normal driving rpms) as a 502/502 (closest comparable crate BBC I can find) with less cam at less rpm and less CID. The cost is about the same too. When I put my new heads on, I will easily beat those numbers. If I match cam specs it'll be even better.
< Message edited by Tripower455 -- 8/2/2006 3:12:18 PM >
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Joined: 4/27/2005 From: trumbull,
CT, USA Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: gunnut It doesn't need a radio!
nothing sounds better than a v8 in the morning . anywho i'm a dodge fan since the dukes of hazzard has been around. that may be the reason i bought a dodge ram. just getting on the entrance ramp on the highway is an adventure. you'll never get the expression "hit it" untill you get one or any american muscle car. and btw thats stock just a k&b intake and 50 series muffler.
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Joined: 11/24/2003 From: Plainview,
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I voted muscle, well because I own 2 fine examples of American muscle, a Chevelle SS and a Corvette....
You can't compare classic muscle cars to ANY new car on a road course, my pickup truck will corner better than my Chevelle but it's also riding on 35 years newer technology....
There are some imports I like, 240/280Z's. I've always been a Porsche fan and I even like the Subaru WRX....
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Joined: 6/5/2006 From: Clarkston, MI, USA Status: offline
Tuners are great daily drivers that can be made to perform extremely well, and not cost hundreds of dollars a week in gas. There is a lot more to going fast than horsepower. Power to weight ratio makes the biggest difference in who can get there quicker. Myself and some of my buddies run tuners and with under $3000 in mods it is very easy to run low 12s and high 11s just check out what the Subaru WRX Sti has to offer in stock form. With simple intake, exhaust and computer mods it is capable of making even the most overpowered V8 cars look like they are standing still. Dont believe it go to wrxtuners.com and check out some dyno printouts and 1/4 mile times put up by owners without running nitrous. You can also check out dsmtuners.com and find lots of Talons and Eclipses pushing well over 500 and 600 hp and running 7s and 8s in the 1/4 and still managing to get 20+ miles to the gallon. Dont get me wrong I am a huge fan of the classics and muscle cars too but dollar for dollar it is hard to beat the performance you get out of a slightly modded lightweight tuner.
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All Forums >> RC Cars, Buggies, Trucks, Tanks and more >> Off Topic Forum - Cars, Trucks, Buggies and more >> RE: Muscle or Import 
RE: Muscle or Import - 
The ZZ572 makes 621/650 on the 9.6:1 CR version and 720/685 on the 12.0:1 out of the crate..... Both will get you into the 10.00s with no power adders in a street driven car, but you'll need good gas for the latter. 
. anywho i'm a dodge fan since the dukes of hazzard has been around. that may be the reason i bought a dodge ram. just getting on the entrance ramp on the highway is an adventure. you'll never get the expression "hit it" untill you get one or any american muscle car. and btw thats stock just a k&b intake and 50 series muffler.
