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Performance Claims - 3/3/2006 12:11 AM   
xilix



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From: Springfield, MA, USA
Status: offline 		I've noticed that the claims for top speed on the Redcat buggies and trucks are 60-70mph. Please excuse the skeptisicm, but I think that is an outrageous claim. I honestly can't see these kits running upwards of even 50+, let alone 60-70mph. Is there any proof that these kits can achieve these speeds? I've seen similar claims from Himoto on E-bay promising 85mph. Does anyone out there actually believe these claims? I'm not trying to rag on this product, just trying to get the facts. How fast do they REALLY go?

I'm all for a new company to come out on the market, especially when they are offering RTR kits for people on a budget, it's great for everyone, but come on.. let's get realistic here. I think that it would be a good idea for a business relationship to start out with 100% honesty. And if I bought a buggy with the expectations of it doing 70mph, and then found out it does nothing near that speed, I'd never buy anything from that company again. I would feel that I'd been lied to.

I welcome anyone with a radar gun to clock their Redcat doing 70mph. Tell you what, I'll even BUY one if I recieve proof that they do 70mph right out of the box.

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RE: Performance Claims - 3/3/2006 12:20 AM   
Chubbysdad


 

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Status: offline 		I was told it is wind force not mph. Makes more sense.

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RE: Performance Claims - 3/3/2006 1:13 AM   
ehroof


 

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Status: offline 		What is windforce?

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RE: Performance Claims - 3/3/2006 1:56 AM   
Xeller8


 

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Status: offline 		Either that or it's KPH (kilometers per hour) which would put them maybe pushing 50 mph or so...which is still quite fast for these little ****s.

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RE: Performance Claims - 3/3/2006 2:26 AM   
ehroof


 

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Status: offline 		redcats website, copied and pasted

With a powerful .18 Nitro Engine & 2 speed transmission the power is unstoppable and able to reach speeds in excess of 60 MPH+.

not kph or wfh(windforceperhour)

they are pretty quick though, will keep up with other cars

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RE: Performance Claims - 3/3/2006 2:49 AM   
xilix



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Status: offline 		I have no doubts they'll keep up with the other "name brand" R/C's. I just think it's silly for them to claim that their kits reach speeds that very, very few R/C's ever reach. And the ones that do are usually packing some serious stuff under the hood like 3-speed trannies and big block motors. I've thought about buying one of these bargain kits for quite some time now, but their bogus performance claims make me a little disgusted. These kits, with their low price, are (inadvertantly or otherwise) aimed at a young demographic. I honestly think that the high mph claims are drawing in unsuspecting kids/newbies. Someone that is new and naive to the hobby doesn't know any better, and they think their money is going into a 70mph kit. I just think it's wrong. But that's just me.

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RE: Performance Claims - 3/3/2006 3:52 AM   
ehroof


 

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Status: offline 		i was actually going to buy a radar gun at radio shack ($129 new)just to see how fast my cars are. I have a traxxas jato and this is supposed to be faster than the rustler nitro. Traxxas says the nitro rustler goes 55mph, i find it hard to believe that the jato is faster. The volcano is pretty fast, not 60+mph though. it is only single speed tranny, but i bought it for off road, dirt driving so i am not so interested in doing 60mph on a bumpy, jumpy track off road place anyway, would cost too much to fix in parts. i am getting the tornado xp delivered tomorrow so i will let people know about that. as far as the truck though, for under $200 you cant go wrong, i am very haddy with it, even if it does 40mph. Maybe i will buy the radar gun over the weekend and try it out.

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RE: Performance Claims - 3/3/2006 4:43 AM   
Xeller8


 

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Status: offline 		What I was saying in my previous post is that I think the MPH claim is a misprint and should have been KPH....I think Redcat just got that info from the manufacturers in KPH and put it on their website as MPH by mistake...

I'd bet the Hurricane XP's are pushing 45-50 MPH...my part-time helper here at my body shop is a deputy sheriff and when it warms up outside again he is going to come down some evening when he is on duty and clock mine for me...now this won't be a TRUE test of the "out of the box" since I have put a higher perf motor in my buggy...but it will give us a better idea....and maybe I'll throw my factory motor back in and clock that too....it still runs...not smoothly at idle or anything but still screams when you are in the throttle...so we'll do some actual speed tests with an actual certified and calibrated radar soon when we have some time.

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RE: Performance Claims - 3/3/2006 7:52 AM   
platinumchopper


 

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Status: offline 		OK HERE WE GO!: in the claim it says: With a powerful .18 Nitro Engine & 2 speed transmission the power is unstoppable and able to reach speeds in excess of 60 MPH+. that means THE ENGINE HAS THE POTENTIAL TO DO THAT, ITS A TRICK SENTENCE, READ IT AGIAN>> THE ENGINE IS ABLE to. MODED alittle the car can go 60+ like say..hmm... add a high performance air filter and 25% nitro....... STOCK it goes 55mph.. MINE with ground and time measurements and my mods like a hp air filter, 30%, and more goes 65 mph. there you go.. also check the specs on the redcat tornado xp at the very bottem it says: Top Speed 90km/h (that = 55mph) good luck guys

Stock estimte by himoto:

LIGHTNING 50 mph
TORNADO XL 50 mph
TORNADO XP 55 mph
VOLCANO 55 mph
HURICANE XL 60 mph
HURICANE XP 65 mph

< Message edited by platinumchopper -- 3/7/2006 3:20 AM >

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RE: Performance Claims - 3/3/2006 9:37 AM   
xilix



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Status: offline 		That is not a trick sentence. Maybe to you it is, but I interpret it correctly.

"With a powerful .21 Nitro Engine the power is unstoppable and able to reach speeds in excess of 70 MPH ."

To me, and I'm sure most everyone, that means that this buggy, *WITH* it's .21 Nitro Engine, is capable of speeds in excess of 70+mph. That sentence is quoted from the ad right on the front page of this site. I'm looking for objective, honest facts here, which I hope Xeller8 will provide for us. I just hope he gets it on video. I think a lot of people don't actually realize just how fast 70mph REALLY is when it comes to R/C cars. Does anyone realize how few R/C kits out there actually achieve these speeds?

I remember a dude in a local parking lot with a nitro RS4. Aluminium this, carbon fiber that. He claimed that his car pushed 80mph. I challenged him to a race with my 50mph Mamba'd RC18T, and I won. Being skeptical is a very important part of life and I wish more people had a little more skepticism. I am VERY confident that these buggies and trucks perform with the best of them, because after-all, when it comes down to it, the platforms only differ so much. What I am after are real world specs from a calibrated radar gun, on video.

The reason why name brand companies are name brand companies, is because they have pro race teams that win races, they have their models clocked with radar guns, and they don't make claims that have an inaccuracy of such drastic measures of a 20-30mph ballpark.

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RE: Performance Claims - 3/3/2006 9:55 AM   
Xeller8


 

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Status: offline 		I agree that they are probably inflated numbers either way...but I still think the numbers they posted were ORIGINALLY KPH as supplied by the manufacturer or whoever tested them overseas when they first came out...

For example...if the Hurricane XP is stated as reaching speeds of up to 70-80 MPH.....well...1 KPH = .62 MPH...so...putting those numbers in KPH terms that works out to 43.4-49.6 MPH...now THAT I would definitely believe...depending on weather...elevation...tuning...type of fuel...etc...

But yes....we WILL get my helper down here with his cruiser and clock this BIOTCH one of these days soon. ...but I will reitterate that it won't be a true "out of the box" test due to the fact that I have put a higher perf engine in...but it should give us a pretty good idea.

< Message edited by Xeller8 -- 3/3/2006 10:02 AM >

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RE: Performance Claims - 3/6/2006 8:51 PM   
thecool1


 

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Status: offline 		im gonna ask a cop to clock my car one day. ill let ya know how fast it is.

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RE: Performance Claims - 3/7/2006 3:07 AM   
maxxhavoc


 

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Status: offline 		i agree with platinumchopper. if the sentence read that it "will" reach or exceed the specified mph, then you would expect the buggy to go that fast. since it reads "able" to, i can only assume that there are other contributing factors to its claimed mph. maybe 30% gas, different gearing, tailwind, going down hill, and holding your mouth just right. just my .02

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RE: Performance Claims - 3/7/2006 3:17 AM   
platinumchopper


 

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Status: offline 		exactly , thanks man!!

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RE: Performance Claims - 3/8/2006 7:12 AM   
xilix



Posts: 125
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From: Springfield, MA, USA
Status: offline 		"Will" and "able" are one in the same when describing the abilities or performance of any product. My Mustang is able to to 147mph. It depends on nothing. It's able to. Therefor it will. Which is why I bought it. My graphics card is able to run Half Life 2 like butter. It depends on nothing. Which is why I bought it. My Ipod is able to hold 30GB of storage and display pictures in color. Depends on nothing. Which is why I bought it. See the pattern?

People buy things because of their ABILITIES to do certain things.

"a·ble ( P ) Pronunciation Key (bl)
adj. a·bler, a·blest
Having sufficient power or resources to accomplish something: a singer able to reach high notes; a detergent able to remove stains.


will2 ( P ) Pronunciation Key (wl)
aux.v. Past tense would (wd)
Used to indicate simple futurity: They will appear later. "

Therefor, if something is ABLE to do something, it WILL. (I should've been a lawyer)

I would be willing to put vast amounts of money down that the new redcat buggy, in the new add on the RCU homepage, in stock trim, is not able to, and therefor will NOT reach 70 miles per hour. No matter what % nitro, no matter what the wind speed is, no matter how lean you run it. It's just not feasible or realistic to make a claim that high. Right now I know of only maybe 2-3 models that come RTR that can attain such high speeds, and they're all onroad cars with some serious stuff under the hood. None of them are Redcats.


quote:

ORIGINAL: maxxhavoc

i agree with platinumchopper. if the sentence read that it "will" reach or exceed the specified mph, then you would expect the buggy to go that fast. since it reads "able" to, i can only assume that there are other contributing factors to its claimed mph. maybe 30% gas, different gearing, tailwind, going down hill, and holding your mouth just right. just my .02



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RE: Performance Claims - 3/9/2006 7:15 AM   
maxxhavoc


 

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Status: offline 		yes i have to agree that those are the dictionary versions of the words. its all about how you personally read and understand what is writen. just because i am ABLE to do something doesnt mean i WILL and if i WILL do it at least ill be ABLE to. i personally view the dictionary as a starting point and not the end. everyone can read the same sentance and each person can get something different from it. besides, how many people take a dictionary shopping with them? anyways istick to my guns and say "just cause its ABLE to doesnt mean it WILL."

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RE: Performance Claims - 3/9/2006 7:48 AM   
Kemo



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Status: offline 		All in all, the site needs some minor tweaks to make it correct.

"more resistant to crash than lexan"... um, the bodies are lexan

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RE: Performance Claims - 3/9/2006 8:18 PM   
xilix



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From: Springfield, MA, USA
Status: offline 		Dude, you're a living, breathing, thinking human being. You have the ability to CHOOSE whether or not you feel like doing sometihng. It's not like you go out and buy a Redcat and one day it just turns around and says to you "hey you know what, I don't FEEL like going 70mph today, so you can just go screw yourself".

We are talking about things that are designed to achieve one thing or another. Either it does it, or it doesn't. Simple. There is no mystical between for a R/C car or any other object. It doesn't have a brain and it cannot think for itself or decide whether it wants to go 70mph or not. And I dunno about you, but where I come from, words have one definition to all people and it's not subjective. There may be a variety of ways to interpret a sentence or word, but only one way is right. You guys can be on the defensive about Redcat products all you want. They're false advertising and I would bet my left nut on it.

Honestly, think about it. Since when do people buy things because of what they MIGHT or MIGHT NOT be able to do? It's not like I went into a Ford dealership and the salesman was like "yeah.. it'll do 147mph....sometimes... maybe... if you use C16 race gas... and take the spoiler off.. and use nitrous... and install better cams and heads.. and delete the rear seats... and use swap out your tranny for a 6-speed ect. ect.." No, it just does it. Plain and simple. My car will go that fast, it depends on nothing, it is able to, that is why I bought it, and that is why everyone buys everything. Because certain products DO certain things. Why not just slap 70mph on every single RTR in the world? Because of course, with an engine upgrade, 30% nitro, new suspension, new tranny.... blah blah blah blah.. anything can go 70mph. Right?

So basically what you're saying is that it's ok for a company to sell a product under false pretenses. Well I and a lot of people out there, including the BBB, think it's wrong. But I guess I'm just one of those crazy people who actually like to get what the product avertises it can do.

quote:

ORIGINAL: maxxhavoc

yes i have to agree that those are the dictionary versions of the words. its all about how you personally read and understand what is writen. just because i am ABLE to do something doesnt mean i WILL and if i WILL do it at least ill be ABLE to. i personally view the dictionary as a starting point and not the end. everyone can read the same sentance and each person can get something different from it. besides, how many people take a dictionary shopping with them? anyways istick to my guns and say "just cause its ABLE to doesnt mean it WILL."



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RE: Performance Claims - 3/9/2006 10:05 PM   
ChrisJ480


 

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Status: offline 		Well i have the lighting the 1/10th on road car and mine running stock on 20% nitro tuned hits 48 on the radar gun. im very happy with it but i ran it into a curb chassis is bent up and front steering arms broke dogbones bent so i think i need to order new parts. btw where are the aluminium parts the lady at redcat said they would be a vailable end of feb. but i dunno. i live in arizona like 30 min away from the wharehouse

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RE: Performance Claims - 3/9/2006 10:30 PM   
cartronicshn



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Status: offline 		Has anyone heard of marketing of products , i mean read the fine print or lack of is what i always say

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RE: Performance Claims - 3/10/2006 12:40 AM   
platinumchopper


 

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Status: offline 		Stock estimte by himoto:

LIGHTNING 50 mph
TORNADO XL 50 mph
TORNADO XP 55 mph
VOLCANO 55 mph
HURICANE XL 60 mph
HURICANE XP 65 mph

ChrisJ480 : Well i have the lighting the 1/10th on road car and mine running stock on 20% nitro tuned hits 48 on the radar gun. im very happy with it but i ran it into a curb chassis is bent up and front steering arms broke dogbones bent so i think i need to order new parts. btw where are the aluminium parts the lady at redcat said they would be a vailable end of feb. but i dunno. i live in arizona like 30 min away from the wharehouse

Hmmmm 48... thats sure close to 50... i wonder why some were laughing at Himoto's origional estimates?

< Message edited by platinumchopper -- 3/10/2006 1:02 AM >

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RE: Performance Claims - 3/10/2006 12:48 AM   
jeeperscreapers



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Status: offline 		I'l say my tornado xp prolly goes between 30-40 mph.... It was prolly pushing 40-50 when i first tried tuning but it was also runnin 450 degrees lmao!!!!

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RE: Performance Claims - 3/10/2006 12:50 AM   
Xeller8


 

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Status: offline 		EEEEEE GADS!!....450??...no way...yer joking right?

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RE: Performance Claims - 3/10/2006 12:55 AM   
jeeperscreapers



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Status: offline 		maybe 20 degrees off or so..... i do have a cheap infrared temp gauge.... i could smell her burnin from about 20 ft away..... i guess the factory settings were way off??? I was just glad it started back up.... seems to still have great compression and runs great

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RE: Performance Claims - 3/10/2006 1:06 AM   
Xeller8


 

Posts: 473
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Status: offline 		Wow...I'm surprised it still has good compression let alone still RUNS!...

Definitely count your blessings there.

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