Posts: 146
Score: 100 Joined: 6/21/2005 Last Login: 1/6/2010 From: Bristol, UNITED KINGDOM Status: offline
Hi all,
Some of you will know my plight of trying to find a 3D plane to fit my Laser 150 (bought for Goldberg Extra, but decided airframe was too tired). Well, along came the Ultra-RC Giles, the video of which, just left me feeling like, "I want one!" Well, all you guys in the US are so lucky to have so many great planes to choose from, and the Ultra-RC was just too costly to get shipped to the UK But, my thanks go to Brian for his help, and trying.
Anyway, a few weeks ago, I was searching the Web, and stumbled across Probuild Aircraft www. probuild -uk.co.uk and noticed that they had a Giles on there site. I phoned up and spoke to Pete Toombes, and he reckoned that this plane would be ok for my Laser 150 (turns a 16x8 Graupner at 8400rpm). As coincidence would have it, the shipment of 'X-Tech' planes were due in on the following week. So, on the 23rd of Feb, the planes arrived at 9am. My mate Pete (he's a heli guy) travelled down to Dorset (two hours drive from here) to take a look, and arrived there at around 2pm. Instantly fell in love with an Aerotech Yak 54 that was all built up and outside... gorgeous!!!
Anyway, stayed chatting to Pete for about two hours, took a few pics, and weighed everything, with weights as follows...
Fuselage 2 lbs exactly Left wing and aileron 13.5 ozs Right wing and aileron 13.5 ozs Aluminium wing tube 8 ozs (C/F option 4 ozs) Stabiliser & elevator 6 ozs Rudder 2 ozs Glassfibre cowl 5 ozs Wheel pants 2.5 ozs (pair) Aluminium landing gear 7.5 ozs (C/F option was about 3 ozs less) Fuel tank kit 3.5 ozs hardware pack 10 ozs
Total weight 6 lbs 7.5 ozs
Laser 150 engine and silencer 32.5 ozs Prop and spinner 6 ozs Radio and battery 19 ozs
So, should come in at about 10lbs 1 oz, or a little less if the C/F options are used (which I will probably do, after first flight). The stock adjustable engine mount has been ditched in favour of a standard one,
More about this plane...
It is 76.8" span 69.6" long It has an adjustable wing location system. Robart style hinges are used throughout. Ballraced horns are supplied for all flying surfaces, and a nice pull-pull system for the rudder. I have to say, a lot of attention to detail has gone into this plane, and the finish is gorgeous. Seems well glued too.
In addition to the Laser 150, I am using the following gear... Futaba 9C Super TX 149DP receiver S9351 digitals on rudder, Elevator (x2), and ailerons. Probuild have supplied a Futaba mini servo for throttle (sorry, can't remember the number).
Spoke to Pete Toombes today, and he said that he has already fitted the engines and cowl, and throttle servo, as well as wings, stab, and tail. I reckon it will be finished in a week or two, which is pretty good, as he told me it would take 6 to 8 weeks! I have no time to build it myself, as I am struggling to find time to build my Dave Patrick Extra, and PA Mini Katana! If I did the building, there would be no time left to fly!
First pic is one I got from Probuild , but the rest of the pics are of the very plane that I weighed, and am having built by Pete
I will try to get some pics of building progress in the next day or two.
I am still learning 3D, but will make a video as soon as it's built!
Posts: 146
Score: 100 Joined: 6/21/2005 Last Login: 1/6/2010 From: Bristol, UNITED KINGDOM Status: offline
Hi James,
Well, I was hoping that it might be ready for next weekend, but in email this eve, Pete reckons that it won't be. Mind you, is way ahead of schedule already
Anyway, I will be away from Monday 20th, for about a week. Pete reckons it will be ready by my return
As for video... Pete has a friend who will fly it. Also, there is a young member of our local club 'AMARC' who will also fly it, and so will I! So, I am planning on making three vids. I can't remember Pete's mate's name off hand, but Pete reckons he is good. My mate Toby may be young, but he's pretty good at 3D. Me... I'm just learning 3D, but will do my best So, about three weeks should see some video footage put together! Me, I can't wait, as this plane seems so well thought out, put together, and finished!
Since all of the linkages are ballraced as standard, I am now going for ballraced links on the servo ends of the pushrods too
As for freight to the States... no idea, but I would think that freight from the UK would be horrendously expensive!? Anyway, you guys have the Ultra-RC one there! As for safety... it is packed in one box, and probably wouldn't fair too well by being thrown around, so would probably need extra packaging?
Pete reckons he has taken some pics now of the build so far, so hopefully, I can add some pics tomorrow.
Posts: 50
Score: 100 Joined: 4/15/2004 Last Login: 8/28/2010 From: leicester, , UNITED KINGDOM Status: offline
Hi Mike, i'm simon Petes mate,the giles looks superb the X-tech stuff is so lightly engineered,i look forward to seeing it finished to petes immaculate standards,and perhaps having a fly with her.
Posts: 146
Score: 100 Joined: 6/21/2005 Last Login: 1/6/2010 From: Bristol, UNITED KINGDOM Status: offline
Hi Simon... Pleased to meet you!
Well, it certainly was you that Pete said would be good to make a video showing this model to it's full potential... so, I look forward to filming my plane, in your experienced hands! I reckon, that it looks like the first plane that I haven't maidened for myself (with exception to my very first trainer). Then again, I guess I could maiden, and then hand to you for the 'workout'!?
Two things drew me to this plane... 1) Probuild only seem to sell 'high-end' American designs. 2) The incredible attention to detail of this kit. It all seems so well finished, even to the extent of unbelievably uniform overlaps on all of the covering. All of the glued joints seem to be pretty generously and very accurately glued too. Pete himself seems to be extremely fussy and meticulous with his builds, and also insistent on sealing all of the gaps on the flying surfaces, which surprisingly, most people in the UK doen't seem to bothered about So, hence, I have high expectations of this plane!
Posts: 50
Score: 100 Joined: 4/15/2004 Last Login: 8/28/2010 From: leicester, , UNITED KINGDOM Status: offline
Hi mike, you wont find better than Pete when it comes to building/finishing models,i undestand he is getting on well with it,so i look forward to meeting soon. Simon
Posts: 146
Score: 100 Joined: 6/21/2005 Last Login: 1/6/2010 From: Bristol, UNITED KINGDOM Status: offline
Well, got three pics from Pete this eve. Am really excited to see my Laser 150 inside the cowl! This is the only engine I ever had that started first flick straight outta the box!
Anyway, first pic is of the firewall and throtlle servo with slight mods made where the exhaust and carb are a bit close (the Lasers are pretty long when you take into account the way the carb and exhaust are mounted).
Second pic is of the adjustable wing mount tube throght the fuse.
Posts: 694
Score: 105 Joined: 10/9/2002 Last Login: 2/1/2012 From: GUELPH,
ON, CANADA Status: offline
Hi Mike, I am waiting to get a price from the guys at Probuild as they responded saying that they do ship to Canada. Keep the undates coming as I relly due like the looks of this plane. I think I,ll put my YS 160 in mine when I get it. How does the paint on the cowl match up with the covering is it pretty close? Any changes needed as far as the build up goes ie: Reinforcing the landing gear plate, firewall etc ?
Posts: 146
Score: 100 Joined: 6/21/2005 Last Login: 1/6/2010 From: Bristol, UNITED KINGDOM Status: offline
Hi Dave,
I guess you are in luck then! I just hope that the freight cost doesn't prove to prohibitive!
As for the paint match between cowl and fuse... this can pretty much be seen in the first pic I put up. It is a much better match than the pic on Probuild 's website! But, it is a slightly brighter pink than the covering on the fuse (only slightly). The match between canopy and fuse is perfect! I would say that the match on this is a little closer than the match between cowl and fuse on my gorgeous DP Extra.
As far as reinforcements go... Pete has gone for better linkages, as he reckoned the stock ones were a little thin. He has gone for some posh Aluminium ones. Landing gear plate seemed pretty well thought out, and beefy to me. Can't see this one failing in a hurry. Firewall also seems pretty strong. Glue seems to be something that is plentiful in this plane, which makes a pleasant change!
Hope all goes well with your freight price!
Will be away for a few days now, but will try to look in and post if I get any chances.
Posts: 4322
Score: 115 Joined: 12/8/2001 Last Login: 11/15/2011 From: Zachary, LA, USA Status: offline
Nice plane... but if it weighs ten pounds, I'm afraid you're not going to get the type of performance you might be looking for. I'm speaking of that much-abused term "unlimited vertical", which is the buzzword for 3D types here in the US.
I have a Laser 150 on a CG Ultimate. The combo weighs just over nine pounds dry. The engine runs on Cool Power 15% nitro all-synthetic fuel and turns a Graupner 16x8 at between 8500/8800, depending upon ambient temperature and humidity. I'm just above sea level here.
The model has plenty of vertical authority, but will stop climbing after several hundred feet straight up. It certainly does NOT have the excess power that seems to be necessary for many of these hovering/flip-flop manuevers the 3D guys are into.
Hopefully I'm wrong. But don't be surprised...
Those Lasers are great, aren't they? I've been running mine for almost four years now, with absolutely no issues. Never had a problem, never even had a dead stick, and I can count on the fingers of one hand the times I've needed to adjust the needles.
Posts: 146
Score: 100 Joined: 6/21/2005 Last Login: 1/6/2010 From: Bristol, UNITED KINGDOM Status: offline
Hi James, Have to admit that the attention to detail and CF push rods have me feeling really excited about this plane!!!
Steve, I do soooo hope you are wrong! I too have my doubts, hence my exchange of PM's with you a while ago about whether your exhaust mods gave any extra power (you said they broke and you reverted to stock, I think). However, I am still quite impressed with your higher end figure of 8800rpm. I will be probably using a Mejzlik 18x6 prop, which gave me 7900rpm (got 8400 with the Graupner 16x8 that you use, but hoping for a couple of hundred rpm more when run in). I figure that the 18x6 at perhaps 8100rpm will give me more static thrust for 3D?
Anyway... if the Laser 150 doesn't cut the mustard, I will buy another Laser 240V twin (weighs 1160 grams, so not too much more), as I just love the incredible song that this engine sings!!!
Simon, I am going to have to catch up with you in the next day or two to figure out when to maiden this plane, and where? I can pretty much do any day, with weekdays perhaps being a little better for me. I am guessing that the plane well be ready to fly now, but just got back into the country last night, so haven't spoken to Pete yet.
Just need to get a flight in on my Funtana now in the next day or two, to tie me over until I get my hands on my Giles!
Mike.
< Message edited by Mike_T5 -- 3/28/2006 9:42 AM >
Posts: 4322
Score: 115 Joined: 12/8/2001 Last Login: 11/15/2011 From: Zachary, LA, USA Status: offline
Yup, went to the stock muffler. Supposedly, it chokes the engine down a bit, as opposed to the flexible exhuast extension that didn't hold up. To be frank, I didn't notice any loss of power, and the engine is now easier to handle; by hooking up muffler pressure, I am able to hand-prime the engine for easy hand-starting. Before, with the open-vent tank, I needed a starter to spin the engine up before it would draw fuel and fire.
Now, I put my thumb over the muffler, turn the prop through compression a few times, hook up glow heat and bounce the prop.
As to your power situation, I just don't know. I suppose anything can be adapted to a certain purpose, but using a Laser for 3D just seems... wrong. Kind of like running a Bentley in a Formula One race; you can do it, but...
Posts: 146
Score: 100 Joined: 6/21/2005 Last Login: 1/6/2010 From: Bristol, UNITED KINGDOM Status: offline
Ah Steve, you're obviously so hung up on looking the engineering quality of your engine, that you just want to pamper it for the rest of its life, and wake up with it on the pillow next to you every morning! Whilst I can appreciate why you feel this way, I am determined to abuse mine and see how far she can be pushed!
Seriously though, I don't think the performance is bad by any means, and although I have my doubts, I will have no hesistation in swapping for the 240V Twin if the plane won't 3D with the 150. Just cross your fingers and wish me luck
Posts: 146
Score: 100 Joined: 6/21/2005 Last Login: 1/6/2010 From: Bristol, UNITED KINGDOM Status: offline
Hi Boby,
Yeah, at first, I thought they were identical, and perhaps from the same factory! Aside from the obvious omission of the tuned pipe tunnel and LG, there are subtle differences. The other big difference is the shape of the cowl, which is much more rounded, and in my eye, more attractive on the X-Tech Giles.
Posts: 33
Score: 100 Joined: 10/31/2005 Last Login: 12/25/2011 From: Southampton, UNITED KINGDOM Status: offline
Hi Mike,
How's the Giles comming along? Can't be too far off
I know this may sound like a silly question but do you think it might be possible to join the elevator halves with a staple and run them off a single servo (e.g. DS 8411). Of course, the stab halves would have to remain attatched (!), but if transport is not a problem then this could save a bit more weight and make set up a lot easier.
Ali said that his Capiche 140 utilised a staple; the elevators were powered by a single 11kg DS8411. He said that it was one of the most elevator-authorative planes he's flown, so power and throws/alignment are certainly not a problem...
I look forward to hearing the progress.
Regarding engines, the Lasers sound superb and last and last. I agree that the little exhaust could strangle power down a bit. Perhaps you could make up a large volume silencer and join it with some flexi? Be intersting to see how the plane performs on it.
Posts: 146
Score: 100 Joined: 6/21/2005 Last Login: 1/6/2010 From: Bristol, UNITED KINGDOM Status: offline
Hi Matt,
Very very interesting point! Personally, I wouldn't mind at all if the elevators were run off one servo. But, I think the stab halves are fixed anyway, so not sure why two servos are used? But, having said that, on my Funtana, the link rod between the two halves flexes a little, so the half that is driven off the servo moves a little more than the half thaat is linked across.
Spoke to Pete today, and he said that the plane is almost ready. Trouble is, I will be away in Japan from Friday until next Wednesday, so will be on hold for a few days But, Pete is certain that she will be 100% ready on my return! So, pehaps she will be maidened and videod on the Easter weekend!?
I have three Laser's now... the first one being a Laser 70 in my Funtana. Have to say that I have only had about a dozen flights on this plane now, with APC 13x6 prop, but absolutely love the engine... more than the plane!!! Second Laser will be the one in the Giles (150), and my third is the 240V twin, that will go into my DP Extra. This engine just sounds absolutely unreal, so I can't wait for the Extra to be built (doing this one myself)! Best part is, if one cylinder quits, the other will keep running respectably fast, hopefully enough to stay outta trouble!?
Am hoping that Pete will send me a few more pics tomorrow eve to post. He reckons he has done some custom decals too, which I can't wait to see! My gut feeling with this plane, is that Pete has paid so much attention to detail, that I reckon it will be the best plane I've ever had!?
Posts: 146
Score: 100 Joined: 6/21/2005 Last Login: 1/6/2010 From: Bristol, UNITED KINGDOM Status: offline
Hi Dave,
I spoke to Pete yesterday, and he said that it is all finished. He is just waiting for a Li-Po RX battery to arrive, which he should have now. There is a chance that I can maiden the plane on Sunday or Monday. Failing that... next week sometime. I am certainly very eager to get this one in the air, as I feel very confident about it!
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X-Tech Giles 202 76.8" ARF & Laser 150 - 
But, my thanks go to Brian for his help, and trying. 
