RE: %Nitro/RPM Tests

RE: %Nitro/RPM Tests
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RE: %Nitro/RPM Tests - 3/17/2006 12:35:41 AM

speedster 1919

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So Phil Your telling us you used 70% and didn't blow an engine or two on the way to world records. Why even mess with 10% alky????????? But you need the 10% to make the nitro work. You missed my point. I said average sport flyers (who are not racing or setting records and flying around at 1/2 to 3/4 throttle ) I believe you may have had your last batch of race engines to sell off, before you quit , but not everyone you took to the dance!

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Post #: 76

RE: %Nitro/RPM Tests - 3/17/2006 3:02:01 AM

Sport_Pilot

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Not sure but I think you need the alky to get the oil to mix.

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Post #: 77

RE: %Nitro/RPM Tests - 3/17/2006 3:16:47 AM

RaceCity

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Sport..Klotz markets nitromethane/oil premix. They call it "Nitroil". Seems to be nothing more than nitromethane and KL200 blended together if I read the info page correctly.

Edit: I just went back and checked the data sheet. "Nitroil" is a 78% Nitro / 22% KL200 blend.

Throw a tank of that in the old K&B....

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Post #: 78

RE: %Nitro/RPM Tests - 3/17/2006 3:29:29 AM

Sport_Pilot

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quote:

Throw a tank of that in the old K&B....

Tim Taylor I am not!

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Post #: 79

RE: %Nitro/RPM Tests - 3/17/2006 4:16:27 AM

RaceCity

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You haven't lived Sport until you light off a brand new Binford 6000 model engine....

Wow.

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Post #: 80

RE: %Nitro/RPM Tests - 3/17/2006 9:57:59 AM

speedster 1919

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Nitro won't work at 100% It's an enhancer for gas and methanol. You need at least 10% to make nitro to work. The problem with Phil's post is---------He's giving the impression to readers that lots of nitro is good and safe for engines ,so just ignore your manufacturer suggested limit to nitro. If high nitro was so safe for engines ,why would a manufacturer waste time and space to limit nitro fuel content. Cause if your burning $60 a gallon nitro , what would they care.

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Hey Buddy -That was the most spectacular crash I've ever seen , That rolling cart wheel with parts slinging out was cool...

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Post #: 81

RE: %Nitro/RPM Tests - 3/17/2006 11:30:35 PM

proptop

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I wonder just how much nitro you could get to light off in the chamber with a glow engine.

Nitro is an oxygen bearing compound, right? It carries it's own Oxygen...I believe that's one reason why you get more power with more nitro. There's obviously a point of diminishing returns though...

If you didn't care about the engine's longevity, how much could you use, as an experiment, hypothetically speaking?

You could theoretically run 100% in a spark ignition model engine...maybe?

100% was first tried back in the mid 60's by a fuel dragster team called "The Surfers" and everybody thought they were crazy...(but they have megawatt ignition systems )
Don't think they added any enhancer? (amyl nitrate, etc.) Wouldn't be "100%" then I guess would it!?

< Message edited by proptop -- 3/18/2006 8:23:48 AM >

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Post #: 82

RE: %Nitro/RPM Tests - 3/18/2006 5:01:29 AM

Phil Heller

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here we go again! If you bother to read my post thoroughly, My point was the same as yours! I use a commercial fuel (wildcat) with moderate Nitro, because I don't tear around the sky at full throttle.

I used the controline speed as an example of what was done by many of us who walked away with the hardware in spite of what the thinking was at that time regarding nitro content. That was a specialized use for a specific purpose. I am in no way advocating the use of ultra high nitro content for sport flying!

Anyway, I never burned up an engine or threw a rod or any of those other nasty things. Even if I did, A McCoy 60 and Dooling 61 sold for $35 each - and except for the metallurgy were made a lot sturdier than any of today's engines.

Phil

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RE: %Nitro/RPM Tests - 3/18/2006 5:45:07 AM

B.L.E.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: speedster 1919

Nitro won't work at 100% It's an enhancer for gas and methanol. You need at least 10% to make nitro to work. The problem with Phil's post is---------He's giving the impression to readers that lots of nitro is good and safe for engines ,so just ignore your manufacturer suggested limit to nitro. If high nitro was so safe for engines ,why would a manufacturer waste time and space to limit nitro fuel content. Cause if your burning $60 a gallon nitro , what would they care.

My understanding is that 100% nitro will burn as a fuel but it's not as powerful as a mix of nitro and methanol. At high nitro percentages, propylene oxide is often used instead of methanol.

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Post #: 84

RE: %Nitro/RPM Tests - 3/18/2006 5:50:35 AM

downunder

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If Phil's post had been read properly it would have been noticed that he said more nitro could be used in the McCoy's than in the Doolings probably because of the McCoy's lower compression. And this was only for all out speed where if the engine lasted the flight and won without blowing up then fine because it's hardly daily sport flying.

Compression is generally the main factor in how much nitro an engine can handle but is it useable or even desireable? If you take compression alone as being the deciding factor then, on that basis, what engine can you walk into any hobby shop and buy that has the lowest compression of any current engine I know of? How much nitro should you feed to an engine that's only got a 6:1 compression? Sounds like it should be a monster racing engine doesn't it? Well no, a Fox 35 isn't quite in that class

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Post #: 85

RE: %Nitro/RPM Tests - 3/26/2006 7:40:42 PM

Phil Heller

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B.L.E.

I believe the full size Nitro dragsters run on straight nitro. Can you imagine the cost of one run down the strip!

Downunder

G'day mate! Never blew one up! (McCoy or Dooling or even Fox 29X!). Even at 70%! Want a thrill? hang on to a McCoy 60 speedster on a 70 ft. line going 160mph trying to stay on the pylon! I couldn't at my age anymore!

For all

P.S. I repeat - I DO NOT IMPLY, PREDICATE, OR EVEN SUGGEST USING HIGH CONTENTS OF NITRO FOR THE DAILY SPORT FLYING MOST OF US DO!

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RE: %Nitro/RPM Tests - 3/27/2006 1:08:24 PM

Sport_Pilot

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quote:

ORIGINAL: B.L.E.

quote:

ORIGINAL: speedster 1919

Nitro won't work at 100% It's an enhancer for gas and methanol. You need at least 10% to make nitro to work. The problem with Phil's post is---------He's giving the impression to readers that lots of nitro is good and safe for engines ,so just ignore your manufacturer suggested limit to nitro. If high nitro was so safe for engines ,why would a manufacturer waste time and space to limit nitro fuel content. Cause if your burning $60 a gallon nitro , what would they care.

My understanding is that 100% nitro will burn as a fuel but it's not as powerful as a mix of nitro and methanol. At high nitro percentages, propylene oxide is often used instead of methanol.

The AA Dragsters and Funny cars were running 100% nitro because it was faster. Recently the rules required no more than 90% nitro because of all of the blown up engines sending shrapnel into the stands. I think someone pointed out that our engines need 10% alky to keep the glow plug lit.

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RE: %Nitro/RPM Tests - 3/27/2006 6:23:38 PM

Phil Heller

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Let's throw something else into the mix - Tetra-nitromethane! Now there's a real engine killer!
Thank goodness it was outlawed - mainly because of its toxic nature. There was a story going around in the early '50's that some yahoo dropped a bottle in his basement, tried to clean it up with a rag and , of course got quite a bit on his hands and arms. The next day he was rushed to the ER, seems the stuff was absorbed through his skin and practically destroyed his liver! BUT - oh boy! did it make an engine scream! However, it was so caustic the engine had to be flushed with Energine cleaning fluid within minutes of landing or it was bye-bye bearings, rings, liner, etc.!

NOTE: This bit of nostalgia is strictly for your reading pleasure and in no way constitutes an endorsement for the use of Tetra-nitromethane as an ingredient for sport, racing or any other type of glo or ignition fuel.

Phil

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RE: %Nitro/RPM Tests - 3/27/2006 11:24:18 PM

speedster 1919

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I'm in Indianapolis Race capital of the world. NEW rules for nitro is 85% and will be 80% down the road. Indy Cars will be 100% Ethanol ---100% nitro does not do that well by itself. When unlimited Top Fuel cars were about 90%. The nitro enhances either gas or methanol . The gas or meth is really what is burnig. But they also rebuild their engines every 1/4 mile. Which used 11 gallons of fuel. You make the call. Is nitro totally needed in our hobby?

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Hey Buddy -That was the most spectacular crash I've ever seen , That rolling cart wheel with parts slinging out was cool...

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RE: %Nitro/RPM Tests - 3/28/2006 3:28:11 AM

Sport_Pilot

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Speedster,.
You were from Miami a few weeks ago! Just a few short years ago they indeed ran 100% nitro! If it did not make cars run faster then they would not have had to make the 90% rule since made 85%. The primary additives were acetone, methanol, and (very rarely) water. Acetone and water helps with detonation on those hot days, methanol was added to bring HP down on slippery tracks. Without some alky only a very small amount of water can be added. Though I don't think it took much.

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