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RE: Very interesting article by Dave Brown... - 3/16/2006 2:15:27 AM   
KidEpoxy



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From: San Antonio, TX, USA
Status: offline 		The barbed wire in the story, was it strung across the road as a gate/fence to bar passage,
or was it laid out in the road as a hazard to cause damage to vehicles, no fence value.

Kind of obvious that one was a type of fencing and the other was a weapon. Where do you draw the line? A chain is hard to see... A chainlink fence is hard to see... a brick wall is hard to see (at night, cause it's our fault if some guy is driving at night with his lights off on our property).... or from an actual case: an oak tree is too dangerous to cars that leave the traffic lane, drive at 60 in the shoulder, and a passenger leans out the window to puke (yup, drunk minors), and LOP with an Oak Decapitation- county gets sued for having a dangerous oak next to the shoulder of the road (near cal state chico)

Just send a copy of the suit to your states DOT and ask how much they will spend to make the thousands of state owned gates High Visibility. I get the feeling the DOT are not gonna do much gate replacing.

Seems like one would have to argue all 6000' of a pasture 5strand would have to have lights & sirens if the gate wire has to have that garbage. We are talking about bikes, right... the kind that tear up pasture with donuts & ruts. Dirt bikes will go around a locked gate if there is no fence, and around just 20' of fence to the sides of a gate, so all fence must get idiotproofed.


Or looking at the initial case of a street racer: Isn't racing going as fast as you can without losing control... so if anything at all happens you will lose control. Heck, idiots racing in Hayward/Freemont,CA on the boulevards lose it & die without any chains or obstacles. How long was the chain that killed Dale Earnhardt, oh, no unmarked landowner hazard, it was a race & that happens, but for some reason this kid was SafeRacing until a violent chain was wielded against him by some poles.(note- Dale Earnhardt was a great racer & hero to many, he was not some criminal, but a fine sportsman)

This is right up there with people saying they drive so bad, all cars on the road must have one more brakelight installed for them to see us. Not every Milk Carton kid is a molestation, some just got caught on the wrong land is my guess, and the horses ant gonna rat the landowner out to the cops. There is something you're not supposed to do to Texas.... oh yeah, Mess With. Ya'll cityfolk go ahead & pamper your criminals, we don't cotton to that down here. Us & Florida have a heapin helpin of law to dish, law to the extreme

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RE: Very interesting article by Dave Brown... - 3/16/2006 2:23:43 AM   
EASYTIGER


 

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From: nyc, NY, USA
Status: offline 		You have to laugh a little at Texas sometimes. They talk so tough, but they'll still end up in jail when they cross the line!

"heapin helpin of law to dish, law to the extreme"

Yeah. Sure! Bring back the lynch mob! Well...he LOOKED guilty! Oh, well!

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RE: Very interesting article by Dave Brown... - 3/16/2006 10:23:03 AM   
STLPilot


 

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quote:

You have to laugh a little at Texas sometimes. They talk so tough, but they'll still end up in jail when they cross the line!
Zackly. Aren't there more Texacutions then almost all states combined or some crazy statistic? Texas certainly doesn't appear to be above the law when it comes to killing someone, in fact it seems like they are rather tough.

Being an edumacated city folk, I'm going to fire my shotgun in the air first round, then apply deadly force second round if needed. This way I know I'll still be able to get 18 holes in before the day is done without the nuisance of mopping up blood or waiting for my lawyer to post bail.

PS - Who is Dale Earndhardt?

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RE: Very interesting article by Dave Brown... - 3/16/2006 2:05:26 PM   
KidEpoxy



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quote:

Aren't there more Texacutions then almost all states combined or some crazy statistic? Texas certainly doesn't appear to be above the law when it comes to killing someone, in fact it seems like they are rather tough.
Us & Florida have a heapin helpin of law to dish, law to the extreme
Can't get more extreme law than to have criminals Ride the Lightning, and yeah, its crazy how few criminal folk get put down in them little states. You ever want to catch up in the law dishing out department, send a few criminals down here, we'll export them to the man downstairs via the hotseat.

You knock over a liquor store & kill a guy, you get the hotseat.
You shoot some guys stealing your horses cause they deadly threatened you (just point out that driving your car at someone is assault w/ deadly charge when that someone is a cop), no problem.

If a texas landowner shoots a gun, just who is calling the cops? The Horses? Just shoot 5 more times, reload & 6 more.... if the sheriff does get called it out, it will be to tell you to not target shoot after dark- folks are watchin TV. Maybe shooting at stuff from your porch aint popular in New York City, buy why do you think we have them junk cars in the yard if not for targets. Many of the residents of littlestates think that any gunshots will bring a horde of cops out like ants at a picnic, when actually we shoot all the time and the sherrif just aint called. I would figure a reasonable criminal would have to look at does he want to misbehave in Gun Toting Texas, or in some city that banned common folks from having pistols.

But this is a Chain & Visibility thread, right? I appreciate ya'll fixating on the 10% of my post that was not chainy, but as for the chain talk, again:
Was the Barbwire strung up as a gate, or laid out as entanglement obstacle?

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RE: Very interesting article by Dave Brown... - 3/16/2006 2:29:26 PM   
EASYTIGER


 

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Status: offline 		The problem with Texans is they are too SOFT. They coddle these criminals by giving them time to "think about what they did" in nice jails with roofs and food and all that. You need to go to one of these ARAB countries, where they will chop your hand off for lifting a pack of Juicy Fruit down at the WalMart. Do something SERIOUS like steal a horse or camel and they will seperate your turnip from the remainder of your body with a great big old rusty scimitar right there in the town square. None of this wussy "ride on old sparky" stuff, where you get a blindfold and all that, your best hope is that the scimitar is fairly sharp and only takes one blow, and that the executioner is reasonably accurate. Now THAT's justice.
Just proving what everybody around here in NYC says all the time...Arabs are much tougher than Texans!

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RE: Very interesting article by Dave Brown... - 3/16/2006 4:00:26 PM   
STLPilot


 

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Status: offline 		Don't know why you keep saying Florida. Florida and Texas are as different as Palestine and Israel.

But who is this Dale Earnheart guy? Is he an airplane pilot? Reno racer?

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RE: Very interesting article by Dave Brown... - 3/17/2006 4:50:49 AM   
KidEpoxy



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quote:

Don't know why you keep saying Florida.
Florida is the only state that gives TX a run for the money in the Criminals Eliminated Anually race. Littlestates have not been competative in that event in decades, so you probably aren't familiar with the top scores. Florida was also in the news not too long ago for passing the 'Castle Law' stating you no longer are required to flee, you may Engage & Destroy people threatening you. Critics claimed it would unravel society in just a few months with all fender benders turning homicidal in Florida.... yet we don't see that happening in the news do we. Well, we do see violent road rage, but it aint all in florida, Cal is the ragey place despite its gun bans. Lots of Florida is Open Carry like Arizona... yup, you strap on a gun and sit down in McDonalds to dine on fries packin heat- no licence... you're an american, of course you can walk around with a 45 or 44... loaded? well it wont do much good if it weren't.

Dale was a racer, he crashed in a race, he died: Racing is dangerous, even without chains & gates.

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RE: Very interesting article by Dave Brown... - 3/17/2006 2:28:05 PM   
EASYTIGER


 

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Status: offline 		"Engage & Destroy" people threatening you...

I love when people start using terms like that!

Kind of like "terminate with extreme prejudice".

People start using terms like that, then I KNOW they have been reading too many Tom Clancy novels and not enough non-fiction!

I'm a gun owner, but I tell ya...why is it that most of the people who obsess about guns and their rights to have them are EXACTLY the people who I don't want to have guns? Anyone who uses the phrase "engage and destroy", well, that's the guy I don't want carrying a gun! The guys who are really INTO guns are the scary ones. They want to USE their guns!
Ever see the Peter Weir film "Witness"? Remember the scene where the Amish boy is fondling Harrison Ford's 38 that he found in the drawer? His Amish grandfather comes in, takes it away, and says:
"That is a gun of the hand, Samuel. It's purpose is to take life."
A very simple observation. And a very truthful one.

I've shot lots of guns, including full auto 50 calibers and german Mg42s, all that sort of thing, and guns are seductive and glamourous and cool. Can't escape that. But at some point you need to step back and realize they are not a very healthy obsession, they are about killing things. Sometimes that is neccessary, that's how life is, but I'm not walking around with a gun anymore and eyeing everybody, thinking about who I might have to "engage and destroy". That's a really unhealthy mindset, it's a real problem with our culture today.
Just my two cents!

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RE: Very interesting article by Dave Brown... - 3/17/2006 3:55:06 PM   
KidEpoxy



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From: San Antonio, TX, USA
Status: offline 		"engage and destroy", well, that's the guy I don't want carrying a gun!
Do you propose a more PC phrase describing florida's Castle Law then? Ballistic CounterOffer of a threat?

Kind of like "terminate with extreme prejudice". hey now, where did prejudice get into this. We are talking about 'extreme postjudice', we judged based on their actions witnessed... rustling or assaulting us. Is shooting back at someone killing you now some form of bigotry? Does it make one a Felonist, like a sexist or racist, if one hates criminals? Maybe ya'll should lobby Florida to change its laws if you don't like how poeple live several states away from you. Or have the feds force the southern states to change their ways.... oops, already did in the
1861 War of Northern Aggression.

Never read Clancy, just was the way we talked back in the 588th when describing activly partaking in a shootout to win. I'm glad you have a gun. Everyone, that there isn't a reason for them not to, should have a gun... get all your friends to buy a gun... give the Gift of Firepower this season (show you care with a 1911).... maybe commuter trains would just get 2 or 3 people shot instead of over a dozen if someone besides the psycho had a gun. Which bring us back to the chain- did the commuters sue the train because people were shot on 'its land'?

I have a hard enough time trying to keep up with Cal laws, what's the current level of gun ban in NYC? I remember back when they barred pistols from general public, seem to recall that kind of thing in tv cop shows these days. Easier to just keep track of what states are ban happy rather than each ban.

I'm not walking around with a gun anymore and eyeing everybody, thinking about who I might have to "engage and destroy".
Well, have you tried walking around with a gun thinking
What am I gonna have for lunch... or... wow, look at the sweater on that chick

Once I leave the house, I don't really worry too much about my shoes, why worry about your gun. My shoes are on in case there is something that would hurt my foot, the gun is on in case there is something that will hurt the rest of me. The simple life of Open Carry, if all the McDonalds customers have guns, then the customer without the gun looks out of place.

quote:

grandfather comes in, takes it away, and says:
"That is a gun of the hand, Samuel. It's purpose is to take life."
Seems grandpa was a classic rock fan, and paraphrased:
Mr Saturday Night Special, got a barrel thats blue & cold
Aint good for nuthin, 'cept put a man 6' in a hole


--note: this banter is so much more fun without the base personal insults from .... that other guy

< Message edited by KidEpoxy -- 3/17/2006 4:02:27 PM >

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RE: Very interesting article by Dave Brown... - 3/17/2006 4:45:10 PM   
Liberator


 

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Status: offline 		Well there is one truth that is for sure. People are more polite...when you have a gun.

But, how exactly did this become a gun debate? I guess this would be called a "fluid" forum.




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RE: Very interesting article by Dave Brown... - 3/17/2006 5:02:48 PM   
KidEpoxy



Posts: 3604
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From: San Antonio, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Florida's Stand Ground Law- the castle law

funny you mention the way the thread wanders... part of the castle law says people can't sue you for taking harmful action... in the context of this law.

So in an RC aspect:
If the club field was in florida
If the club field was occupied
it is now PRESUMED BY LAW that intruders are there to do bodily harm, and may be delt with
and dealing with them could be an unmarked chain, possibly harmful to the possibly Home Invader Homicider

see, almost like florida had flying fields in mind when writing it
sure you can shoot people just for walking in on ya without being sued, but make sure you are in florida when you do it.

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RE: Very interesting article by Dave Brown... - 3/17/2006 7:44:57 PM   
piper_chuck



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quote:

ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy
quote:

grandfather comes in, takes it away, and says:
"That is a gun of the hand, Samuel. It's purpose is to take life."
Seems grandpa was a classic rock fan, and paraphrased:
Mr Saturday Night Special, got a barrel thats blue & cold
Aint good for nuthin, 'cept put a man 6' in a hole

It's doubtful that grandpa was "a classic rock fan". My favorite scene in that movie was the one where Book (Harrison Ford) was about to milk the cow. Seemed to be the first time grandpa and Book clicked.

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RE: Very interesting article by Dave Brown... - 3/18/2006 11:29:12 AM   
STLPilot


 

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quote:

People start using terms like that, then I KNOW they have been reading too many Tom Clancy novels and not enough non-fiction!
KidExpoxy reads Tom Clancy novels? That's like saying I know who Dale Earnheart is. Non finction? Whatsa non finction book?

Dude this Castle Law is so far fetched. Who is going to ride their ATV or motorcycle down a dirt road TO KILL???? We are talking about kids on motorcylces, not Hells Angels. I don't know many states that don't have something close to Castle Law.

< Message edited by STLPilot -- 3/18/2006 11:32:10 AM >

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RE: Very interesting article by Dave Brown... - 3/18/2006 2:34:12 PM   
EASYTIGER


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Liberator

Well there is one truth that is for sure. People are more polite...when you have a gun.

But, how exactly did this become a gun debate? I guess this would be called a "fluid" forum.





Yes...when YOU have a gun, people are generally very nice to you!
When BOTH people have guns, it's often very different.
I've heard the old saw "an armed society is a polite society!" so many times from the NRA, but such has not been my own personal experience. In my experience, an armed society shoots each other a lot!

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RE: Very interesting article by Dave Brown... - 3/18/2006 2:35:51 PM   
EASYTIGER


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: piper_chuck

quote:

ORIGINAL: KidEpoxy
quote:

grandfather comes in, takes it away, and says:
"That is a gun of the hand, Samuel. It's purpose is to take life."
Seems grandpa was a classic rock fan, and paraphrased:
Mr Saturday Night Special, got a barrel thats blue & cold
Aint good for nuthin, 'cept put a man 6' in a hole

It's doubtful that grandpa was "a classic rock fan". My favorite scene in that movie was the one where Book (Harrison Ford) was about to milk the cow. Seemed to be the first time grandpa and Book clicked.


Can you say "teat" here?

Even better film by the same director: Master and Commander. That first scene of the changing of the watch, it's just so perfect, quietly introducing you to the routine of shipboard life...

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RE: Very interesting article by Dave Brown... - 3/18/2006 2:57:10 PM   
Nathan