RE: Bridi UFO Build (all wood) (Full Version)

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8178 -> RE: Bridi UFO Build (all wood) (9/14/2006 1:12:58 PM)

Military schemes were very popular in the 60s and 70s. Ralph Brooke’s Gladiator and my Century design in the 70s. And the Blue Angel!



rainedave -> RE: Bridi UFO Build (all wood) (9/14/2006 2:57:27 PM)

Thanks all. The Bob Violett site has lots of great schemes. One limitation is that I've already bought the dope; dk blue, orange and white. I can mix to an extent, such as yellow, lt blue, green.

Here're two with a lot of variation between top and bottom and I have the right colors:



rainedave -> RE: Bridi UFO Build (all wood) (9/15/2006 12:35:46 AM)

I started work on the wing fillets. I mixed 15min epoxy with microballoons and poured the mixture onto the wing and ply fillet base. I supported the fuselage with scraps of foam so that the epoxy mixture flowed into the shape that I wanted. I didn't use a stick or my finger to try and shape the stuff.; it was too sticky. By propping the fuse at about a 45 degree angle the epoxt settled in the corner making a concave surface against the side of the fuse and the ply base. Now I have to wait for it to cure completely so I can sand ot smooth. I'll still nedd to fill a few places here and there with putty.



rainedave -> RE: Bridi UFO Build (all wood) (9/16/2006 3:50:55 AM)

I sprayed two coats of Brodak White Primer onto the fuselage.

The good news is that the butyrate dope based primer adhered to every area of the fuselage. I was worried there might be a spot or two that would reject the finish. Usually when I'm painting anything wooden - models, furniture or whatever - there's at least one little problem spot that has to be sanded and cleaned to get the finish to stick. Luckily, I didn't encounter that problem here.

The bad news isn't really bad since I knew I would have to deal with it. One of the main reasons for priming a surface is so that imperfections become more visible. The C/L guys actually spray their models with silver dope so that every little dimple, low spot, and sanding scratch show up and can be filled. Anyway, there are plenty of these on my fuselage. The next step is to fill these, sand, spray two more coats of primer and final sand for the color. I should have all that done over the weekend. In the meantime I need to coat the wing with nitrate and attach the Koverall. Then, it will get the same primer/filler/primer treatment. I'll leave the silver dope to the experts!



Paternguy -> RE: Bridi UFO Build (all wood) (9/16/2006 3:55:28 AM)

Looking good Dave.

Here are a couple of mine as I have made a little more progress.



Jim_Purcha -> RE: Bridi UFO Build (all wood) (9/16/2006 4:08:16 AM)

Nice finish. What type of hinges are you using for the control surfaces?



Paternguy -> RE: Bridi UFO Build (all wood) (9/16/2006 4:22:04 AM)

I am going to use the great planes pinned hinges. I wanted to do the CA type but I wasn't sure how good a bond I would get with foam safe CA. So I went old school with epoxied hinges.



rainedave -> RE: Bridi UFO Build (all wood) (9/16/2006 4:37:35 AM)

Thanks, both of you. jpurcha, I still have time to change my mind on the hinges since it's one of the last things I'll glue in place. I bought a package of Radio South 1/4 scale Pro-Hinges (CA type) since I like to keep hinging as simple as possible. These things are very, very strong. When I built up the elevators and rudder I glued blocks against the front of the trailing edges, so there's plenty of wood in there to add any type of hinge, even Robarts if I wanted. Anyway, the Radio South hinges have a good following and a reliable reputation.



stiletto660 -> RE: Bridi UFO Build (all wood) (9/16/2006 5:07:01 AM)

So would you recommend that I not use the sandable primer that we usually use for automotive paint, and instead use the dope-based primer on my current project? (When I take the plunge and try out the dope for the first time.)



rainedave -> RE: Bridi UFO Build (all wood) (9/16/2006 5:32:17 AM)

First, I didn't realize jp was talking to Paternguy! Yes, his UFO looks absolutely great, and the fact that it was sprayed from cans is even more impressive. I was certain he had a $200 gun. For some reason the plane looks small in the photos. That must be a pretty big flight box.

stiletto660, just test the products on some scraps first. I can't see where it makes any difference as long as everything is compatible. It's been many years since I used to finish furniture and I've forgotten most of what I knew, but because there are so darn many variables in painting (temp, humidity, pressure, viscosity, chemistry, moon phase and so on) I try to eliminate some of them if I can. So, I chose to stick with the same product throughout. It's just one less thing to worry about, and I'm not a chemist. One thing about the dope-based primer is that it's apparently more sensitive to air pressure than the clear and colored dope. I noticed a few places where the primer was drying before it hit the fuselage, but adjusting the regulator fixed it.



rainedave -> RE: Bridi UFO Build (all wood) (9/17/2006 2:51:35 AM)

Not too much progress today. I got the fuselage filled and sanded. I searched half of Greensboro and couldn't find the 3M lacquer-based filler that is supposedly best to use under dope. That's ok since it's almost $18 a tube. I went with Bondo Glazing and Spot Putty, instead. It dries very fast and sands extremely easily. You just have to make very thin layers. It's not bad stuff.

A couple more light coats of primer tomorrow and a final sanding with 400 grit. I'm really looking forward to applying the color. The base color will be Cessna White. It's not a stark white, but not as yellow as cream, either. It's sort of like porcelain. (When I studied art and set design I was taught to never use pure white paint for anything, ever. I've always adhered to that "law" and it's always worked.)

Just a couple of pics to show the Bondo. I guess I paid for not glassing the fin. There was a lot of wood grain that needed filling.



rainedave -> RE: Bridi UFO Build (all wood) (9/18/2006 1:10:18 AM)

All in all, a pretty good weekend. I feel like I got a lot done. I'm happy with the fuselage and as far as I'm concerned it's ready for the colored dope. The fairings around the stab and fin aren't perfect, but they look fine. One could go on forever finding little imperfections and fill and sand until the end of time, but I'm at a point where it will look better than anything I've built before which is a success as far as I'm concerned.

One thing is for ceratin, I have a new respect and admiration for those modelers who produce flawless finishes. It takes enormous skill and patience to achieve that. It is something to aim for, anyway. To think that there was a time when almost every pattern flyer went through all this work is truly amazing. You have to have a passion for building. I can see how arfs are a godsend to those who don't.

My little $10 Harbor Freight touch-up gun has really hung in there. I'm pushing the compressor, though, as it runs quite a bit to keep the tank at full pressure. But, since I'm stepping the pressure down to around 35psi at the regulator I haven't had the tank drop below that. In fact, it hasn't dropped below about 80psi even with the gun going non-stop. It works great as long as you don't mind the noise of the compressor, which doesn't bother me.



Lou Melancon -> RE: Bridi UFO Build (all wood) (9/18/2006 1:34:59 AM)

Raineday,
That is just flat friggin wonderful. I really like it. When I grow up I hope I can do at least half as well. Can't wait to see the finished plane.



8178 -> RE: Bridi UFO Build (all wood) (9/18/2006 1:49:39 AM)

Looks awesome rainedav!



rainedave -> RE: Bridi UFO Build (all wood) (9/18/2006 2:10:40 AM)

I also covered the wing with Sig Koverall today. This stuff works so well it's scary. First, I applied full-strength, unthinned nitrate dope to the LE, TE, center section and tips using a foam brush. I put on about three coats, until the surface looked shiny. Then I sanded off any lumps or runs until everything was smooth. I laid the Koverall over the wing half and brushed straight thinner on top of the fabric. Using my finger, I rubbed the thinner through the fabric until it dissolved the nitrate dope beneath. This adheres the fabric to the wing.

I attached the covering the same way I would with plastic film, pulling and tacking it down while stretching it tight. Unlike iron-on film, it is very easy to release the fabric with more thinner if you need to reposition an area or pull out a wrinkle. Once I had the Koverall completely adhered I let the dissolved dope dry for a few minutes and then shrunk it tight over the open bays with my iron. If any wrinkles or loose spots remain, you simple wet the area with thinner and rub it down.

Next, I sprayed on three light coats of clear butyrate dope to fill the weave. Koverall fills a lot faster than silk, which can take as many as eight coats to completely fill. It also doesn't pull and run like silk can. The next step is to put on a few coats of the primer and get rid of the line where the fabric stops. If you've ever thought about an alternative to iron-on film, please try Koverall. It's incredibly user-friendly stuff. And, it won't sag or bubble over time. What's a couple more hours work for a finish that will last fifty years?

Also, thanks to RCU for letting members devour so much space with unlimited images!



rainedave -> RE: Bridi UFO Build (all wood) (9/18/2006 2:53:24 AM)

Thanks, Lou and Mike! It's great being able to share my work over the web like this. I'm glad there's an interest.



dadamisin -> RE: Bridi UFO Build (all wood) (9/18/2006 4:06:20 AM)

RAINEDAY: You took a moment a few days ago to compliment a model I posted (Valkyrie) now I find THIS thread of yours!!! Have followed your build through all 7 pages of posts and am absolutley blown away. EVEN a dope finish! I have been seduced by the dark side and using moneycote, but now I'm thinking I will have to try the Koverall. You are right about the durability of a copletely sealed dope finish versus iron-on.

I was an active CLPA flyer from the mid 60's through mid 80's and missed out on all the really hot classic pattern birds. I do have a J&J Eyeball underway, but NO WAY I can post it in a forum anywhere near your UFO! I think I will just paint it in invisible ink!

I am unworthy...!




eroc144 -> RE: Bridi UFO Build (all wood) (9/18/2006 1:30:25 PM)

Rainedav, I just got done reading all 7 pages and all I can say is Wow! Very cool build thread and most excellent work! I picked up lots of ideas for my upcoming Pica FW190 build. I agree with you about Koverall and Brodak's - I tried them 6 months ago and will never use silkspan again.

I've got the same touch-up sprayer but my results have only been so-so (I have to use lotsa dope to get only minimal coverage) How much are you thinning your dope and what PSI are you blowing? Any other tips are appreciated.

EG



rainedave -> RE: Bridi UFO Build (all wood) (9/19/2006 4:09:04 AM)

Thanks dadamisin. If you are a classic c/l flyer then you are one of the people I'm learning all this dope finishing business from. You guys wrote the book!

eroc144, glad you enjoyed the thread. I hope you start a build thread for the FW. I think Dave Platt sells 190 retracts. I've been mixing the dope 50/50 with thinner. I have my regulator set just over 40psi. I don't know how accurate the regualtor on my compressor is, but that's where I've been setting it. Pressure at the gun with the trigger down is of course lower. I need to look and see what it's dropping to, I think to between 30 and 25psi or so. I'll check tomorrow and let you know. You might try going 40/60 dope to thinner and tighten up the fan shape a bit. I have the paint volume knob opened up all the way and the fan knob tightened down almost all the way. I'm getting about a 2" wide line of paint with the gun about 8" away. It takes longer to cover with a touch-up gun, but I like the control I'm getting. I'm still looking for a regular size gun rated at around 2.5cfm. They're hard to find, but I can't afford a $1000 15cfm compressor.



gcedillo -> RE: Bridi UFO Build (all wood) (9/19/2006 6:00:00 AM)

Raineday thank you for sharing both your experinces and materials (plans), Man you make everything look so easy that Im sure many of us beginner builders are encouraged to pursue this Hobby.



stiletto660 -> RE: Bridi UFO Build (all wood) (9/19/2006 7:35:02 AM)

An Adamisin saying he's unworthy? That's pretty modest!

Dave "Raineday" I'm really impressed with your retro covering choice for the wing... I remember that the silkspan and dope finishes I tried were all REALLY fragile. I could actually poke a hole through the wing with my finger. I take it that this "Koverall" is somewhat stronger and more high tech.



eroc144 -> RE: Bridi UFO Build (all wood) (9/19/2006 12:35:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: stiletto660: I take it that this "Koverall" is somewhat stronger and more high tech.


Koverall is made by Sig and is a polyester-based fabric with significant strength. You attach it with dope or by ironing, which requires a heat-activated glue to be spread on the surface first, then shrink it using a heat gun or iron, and apply the paint and finish of your choice.

I had a minor workshop accident a few weeks ago in which my transmitter fell 4' onto a koverall-covered wing. The wing snapped at the root (it was a small 1/2a wing), but the koverall remained intact! If that had been silkspan... [X(] The only downside I've found is that the seams and edges require a bit more TLC, mainly because it's polyester and you can't sand it like you can with silkspan.

EG



rainedave -> RE: Bridi UFO Build (all wood) (9/20/2006 4:54:47 AM)

Yeah, stiletto660, I don't really know what to say. The Adamisins are the "Royal Family" of Stunt. Talk about feeling small! Thank you Dennis.

Thanks, gcedillo. I worry that people who are new to r/c are missing out on a very rewarding part of the hobby. People like 8178 definitely inspired me to build a classic pattern model. I'm really glad I found this forum.

I thought I'd post some really ugly pictures of the wing. It has been primed, filled with putty and sanded, primed again and sanded. It looks pretty scary in its present state! It's now ready for the color coats. Wouldn't you know, the rain sets in. I spray in a garage with the door open so it needs to be dry outside. I need to fine-tune the wing saddles anyway.

eroc144, I was at Home Depot buying some thinner and blue tape and decided to grab a pack of paint strainers for the heck of it. Wow. What an unbelievable difference straining the dope made. It's like I have a whole new gun. If you're not already straining, then grab some strainers. It might just make all the difference with your setup.



eroc144 -> RE: Bridi UFO Build (all wood) (9/20/2006 12:13:48 PM)

rainedav, I'm getting ready to repaint to wing I mentioned above, so tell me more about these strainers - are they attached to the paint holder, or do I strain the dope first?

I bought an HVLP sprayer from Harbor Freight a few months ago will probably give it a shot on the wing. I noticed that it has a small mesh strainer in the parts list, so I guess I'll have to dig out the instructions and figure out where it's supposed to go...

EG



rainedave -> RE: Bridi UFO Build (all wood) (9/21/2006 12:43:46 AM)

EG:

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=126391-968-11114/12FF&lpage=none



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