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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> RC Jets >> Turbine Clinic >> JetCat Turbine Direct Support >> kero start with Li-ion battery
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kero start with Li-ion battery - 3/10/2006 11:43:54 PM   
sc0tt


 

Posts: 187
Joined: 4/20/2005
From: New Lenox, IL, USA
Status: offline 		What has been the experience using Li-ion batteries and kero start ?

Last year kero start was pretty new & the few I saw all used niMh.
How Li-ions handle and hold up to the current draw on start is my main concern.

I currently use 4000 mAh Duralties & plan on using Fromeco's in my next jet.

Thanks for any info,
Scott


       Post #: 1

RE: kero start with Li-ion battery - 3/11/2006 1:01:06 AM   
mr_matt



Posts: 6764
Joined: 12/7/2001
From: Oak Park, CA,
Status: offline 		JetCat is recommending NiCad or NiMH for kerosene start motors. Some of the smaller motors (P-60) might work fine with Lipo, but the bigger ones (P-180 and P-200) will not.

I think Li Ion will not work on any of the motors.

Hope that helps,


< Message edited by mr_matt -- 3/11/2006 1:02:11 AM >

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Matt
JetCat rep

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RE: kero start with Li-ion battery - 3/13/2006 4:41:18 AM   
DrScoles



Posts: 413
Joined: 9/18/2002
From: Redmond, WA,
Status: offline 		Is it purely the amount of amps the liions are being subjected to? I have a P180 kero start on the way.... I cannot use a 4000mah liion pack?? need to know!

Thanks, Mike

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RE: kero start with Li-ion battery - 3/13/2006 9:02:08 PM   
mr_matt



Posts: 6764
Joined: 12/7/2001
From: Oak Park, CA,
Status: offline 		Hi Mike,

Yes it is the current drain. A Lipo on the smaller motors (up to P-120) might work if rated for high enough discharge. A Li Ion on a P-180 will not work, I just asked Bob to double check.

Hope that helps,

Matt

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Matt
JetCat rep

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RE: kero start with Li-ion battery - 3/18/2006 9:48:09 PM   
bcovish



Posts: 1987
Joined: 2/3/2002
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Got my kero start and a 4000 Duralite would not start it. Changed the ECU battery to a 3300 NiMH and the P120 started on the first attempt and two more after that. Now I have to wait to fly because of the extremely dry conditions around here.

< Message edited by bcovish -- 3/18/2006 9:51:37 PM >

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Bob-O
Austin TX

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RE: kero start with Li-ion battery - 3/20/2006 4:02:31 AM   
yeahbaby



Posts: 2596
Joined: 12/7/2001
From: FT Worth, TX, USA
Status: offline 		talked to Bob @ Tucson and he gave the thumbs up to a 4000mah Duralite pack for the P60 only. Watch Chris Balling use it on his Baby Boomerang with Kero P60. worked like a champ

L8R

(in reply to bcovish)
       Post #: 6

RE: kero start with Li-ion battery - 4/28/2006 4:57:52 AM   
DrScoles



Posts: 413
Joined: 9/18/2002
From: Redmond, WA,
Status: offline 		Matt, Whats the minimum battery capacity for kero start on a P180... Mine came with a 2400 pack, how many starts should I be able to get?

Thanks, Mike

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(in reply to yeahbaby)
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RE: kero start with Li-ion battery - 4/28/2006 9:31:10 PM   
mr_matt



Posts: 6764
Joined: 12/7/2001
From: Oak Park, CA,
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DrScoles

Matt, Whats the minimum battery capacity for kero start on a P180... Mine came with a 2400 pack, how many starts should I be able to get?

Thanks, Mike


Hi Mike,

Battery capacity is only one consideration, you need very low internal impedance as well in order to get acceptable results.

The stock 2400 mah pack will safely yield 2 complete cycles (start/fly/shutdown) on a P-180. The other advantage of the stock pack is you can charge them at a very high rate (like 5+ amps) with no problem.

Very simple and robust the way I like batteries!

Hope that helps,


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Matt
JetCat rep

(in reply to DrScoles)
       Post #: 8

RE: kero start with Li-ion battery - 6/21/2006 1:55:24 AM   
Jason Burg


 

Posts: 36
Joined: 6/21/2006
From: Van Nuys, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Personally, when it comes to a project that requires much time, money, effort and dedication, why risk it with a product that has proven faulty besides the fact that it is not recomended by the manfacturer.

Jason

(in reply to mr_matt)
       Post #: 9

RE: kero start with Li-ion battery - 6/29/2006 2:19:38 PM   
mu2driver



Posts: 2095
Joined: 10/14/2003
From: lake havasu city, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		The Fromeco Peerless 2s2p 4-cell pack:

4800mAh capacity
7.4V nominal voltage rating, 8.4V fully charged
13A continuous discharge
14ga. Wire

For more Info on these batteries please visit http://www.fromeco.org/ShopNEW/apeerlessAdvantage.htm

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Composite-Arf USA Rep, JetCat USA Rep.

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RE: kero start with Li-ion battery - 6/29/2006 4:30:21 PM   
Gordon Mc



Posts: 6853
Joined: 1/30/2002
From: San Jose, CA,
Status: offline 		If you guys are trying to figure out how to get more capacity on board in order to deal with the extra drain caused by the pre-heat for kero start...

I had a discussion with Bob Wilcox a while ago about using a BMT-like approach of being able to use an auxilliary external power pack hooked up to the GSU during start-up or cool-down, so that your onboard pack did not get used up as quickly. IIRC, he indicated that while Jetcat wasn't currently providing a pre-configured approach for this, he believed it was OK for a user to manual hook up an extra pack during the start. If that appeals, you should double check with him first to make sure that I understood him correctly.

Dunno if that helps or not.

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"He who establishes his argument by noise and command shows that his reason is weak." - Michel de Montaigne

(in reply to mu2driver)
       Post #: 11

RE: kero start with Li-ion battery - 6/29/2006 4:36:55 PM   
mu2driver



Posts: 2095
Joined: 10/14/2003
From: lake havasu city, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		That sounds like a good alternative! I just bought a P120 Kero Start!

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Composite-Arf USA Rep, JetCat USA Rep.

(in reply to Gordon Mc)
       Post #: 12

RE: kero start with Li-ion battery - 12/3/2006 2:30:37 PM   
samo


 

Posts: 185
Joined: 12/8/2005
From: Eagle, ID, USA
Status: offline 		Hi Matt,

I had trouble starting my P-70 Kero start in 25 degree weather. How does the cold affect the starting process. Is it diminishing the effectiveness of the battery -or - is it the kero plug and turbine - or - all of the above? We'd really love to keep flying even if it's cold but but have run into this problem. (using both the stock 2400Nicd and the NimH 3300 ECU battery)

Thanks for your help,

Steve

(in reply to mr_matt)
       Post #: 13

RE: kero start with Li-ion battery - 12/3/2006 6:57:46 PM   
mr_matt



Posts: 6764
Joined: 12/7/2001
From: Oak Park, CA,
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: samo

Hi Matt,

I had trouble starting my P-70 Kero start in 25 degree weather. How does the cold affect the starting process. Is it diminishing the effectiveness of the battery -or - is it the kero plug and turbine - or - all of the above? We'd really love to keep flying even if it's cold but but have run into this problem. (using both the stock 2400Nicd and the NimH 3300 ECU battery)

Thanks for your help,

Steve



Hi Steve,

This temperature should not be a problem for the turbine (they have been tested to much lower temperatures).

First, what is the specific symptom? Does the start time out (slow acceleration?) or is it low battery signal?

In any case, the most likely culprit is the battery. Are you sure it has a fresh charge?

Regards,


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Matt
JetCat rep

(in reply to samo)
       Post #: 14

RE: kero start with Li-ion battery - 12/4/2006 12:02:05 AM   
silmaril


 

Posts: 5
Joined: 11/18/2005
From: Mirkwood, AB, CANADA
Status: offline 		Hey,

Just an idea but why not use Duralites Li-Manganese. I have run them on my P-120 with Kero start from start up , running, to shutdown(cooldown) six times in a row before I had to charge again and I have even heard of guys doing it up to 8 times... now thats a battery!! anyway just a thought, hope this helps.

(in reply to mr_matt)
       Post #: 15

RE: kero start with Li-ion battery - 12/18/2006 9:36:03 PM  &nb