5645MGs on "Y" some work some dont

5645MGs on "Y" some work some dont
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5645MGs on "Y" some work some dont - 3/11/2006 7:51:09 PM

Crazy4Flight

Posts: 2215
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Milford, MI, USA
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I am building a Kangaroo Jet for a client. Using Hitec HS-5645MG

it uses 2 servos in each wing, the elevons are split into 2 segments
and it has 2 seperate rudders

I have 6 HS-5645MG servos for the elevons and rudders. "S" connectors ( wire: yellow red black, twisted not ribbon)

2 servos on a Y cable do not work together NOMOVEMENT, at first they gittered with erratic movement. IF I unplug one and the other works fine.

the other 4 in any combination (of those 4) will function properly.(not tested against the first two)

Rx futaba 149DP TX futaba 9CAP

Y harness Hitec HD long "S" connectors ( wire: yellow red black twisted, not ribbon)
Y harness Hitec HD short "S" connectors ( wire: yellow red black twisted, not ribbon)

battery 4 cell 1100mAh nicad full charge 5.2V

I cannot read the date code stickers, since they are hidden by the servo mounting structure. Some were bought about a year+ ago some were bought about 2+ years ago. Is there a problem with software / voltage drop ??? as I recall some of the servo boxes had an Upated sticker on them some came to me new but not in package.

I do not have enought open channels to drive all of these independantly,
I do not wish to buy 3 JR matchboxes of the mega$$ powerbox.
nor do we have funds to replace $55.00 hitecs with $100.00 JR

what can be done?

Note that I fly a Kangaroo with JR 4 DS-8411 and 2 DS-8231 on Y cables futaba RX and never a problem.

bob

All servos removed from Mounting frames to read date code:UPDATE:
3 of them are V1.04 and 3 are MAR 02

V1.04 + V 1.04 on a Y and no function
MAR 02 + MAR 02 on a Y will function
V1.04 + MAR 02 on a Y will function

now shall I mix a V1.04 and Mar 02 on each of the 3 needed Y and pray the jet does not crash?

UPDATE #2:
on a Futaba R-148DP

V1.04 + V 1.04 on a Y and no function
MAR 02 + MAR 02 on a Y will function
V1.04 + MAR 02 on a Y will function

on a Futaba R-148DF

V1.04 + V 1.04 on a Y both WILL function

MAR 02 + MAR 02 on a Y will function
V1.04 + MAR 02 on a Y will function

ADDED NOTE: Kangaroo jet will be flown on a Futaba 14MZ and its PCM Rx but I do not have that receiver to test upon.

< Message edited by Crazy4Flight -- 3/11/2006 11:21:51 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: 5645MGs on "Y" some work some dont - 3/12/2006 2:17:47 AM

lrb75

Posts: 429
Joined: 7/23/2002
From: Alexandria, VA, USA
Status: offline

Do a search this topic has been covered several times. Apparently the hitec servos require more current from the signal wire than the Futaba receiver can generate if you use a y. If you use an amplified y or a matchbox or a seperate channel for each servo that seems to make the problem go away. I don't think I have seen any posts on the use of the 14mz g3 receiver and hitec servos.

(in reply to Crazy4Flight)

Post #: 2

RE: 5645MGs on "Y" some work some dont - 3/12/2006 3:50:59 PM

mglavin

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Joined: 11/29/2001
From: Elverta, CA, USA
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Early release v1.04 servos require more sinking current than the Futaba PCM RX's are able to provide when two or more are coupled to a single channel source (wye). Subsequent to realizing the shortcoming Hitec updated a resistor value to lower the need. Your servos can be updated free of charge by returning them to Hitec Service.

I noted you mentioned a couple of JR’s premium digitals, the Hitec sport digitals your utilizing are not directly comparable as they use a 3 pole cored motor verses a coreless of motor, precision will likely suffer comparatively. The Hitec 5925/5945 would be comparable products.

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Post #: 3

RE: 5645MGs on "Y" some work some dont - 3/12/2006 3:59:16 PM

Crazy4Flight

Posts: 2215
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From: Milford, MI, USA
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Michael,

I will seach my inventory of hitec didgtals, over 15 waiting on planes o be assembled., to send in for updates. Also I will send my servp programmer in to update to V1.04 from 1.03

bob

any idea on turn around time?

(in reply to mglavin)

Post #: 4

RE: 5645MGs on "Y" some work some dont - 3/12/2006 4:15:35 PM

mglavin

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From: Elverta, CA, USA
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Bob,

Hitec Service endeavors to provide a ten day turn around, sometimes quicker other times the work load is such that two weeks is more likely.

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Post #: 5

RE: 5645MGs on "Y" some work some dont - 4/1/2006 4:41:55 AM

tail strike

Posts: 537
Joined: 5/26/2003
From: Las Vegas, NV, USA
Status: offline

Michael,
When using my HFP-10 and set the center at 0 some of my HS 5645MG servos you can't put the servo arm on the output shaft and have the arm 90% to the servo case.
It will be off just a little.
I am wondering if I can take the top of the case off and rearrange the gears so the servo arm
will be 90% to the case?
I know you will say just adjust it with the programmer till it is centered.
I have done that but when I put the servos in my plane one on each half of my elevator they will travel in sink from center up to the end point, but from center down one side travels a little faster than the other side and goes a little farther down than the other.
Please help I'm going bald.

For best results talk to the paw

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(in reply to mglavin)

Post #: 6

RE: 5645MGs on "Y" some work some dont - 4/1/2006 2:37:56 PM

aerobear

Posts: 83
Joined: 5/12/2003
From: Sandy, UT, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mglavin

Early release v1.04 servos require more sinking current..........

So, early version 1.04 servos behave very differently from later version 1.04 servos. Wouldn't it avoid a lot of confusion if these two versions each had their OWN version number??? Maybe 1.04 and 1.04A or something along those lines?

(in reply to mglavin)

Post #: 7

RE: 5645MGs on "Y" some work some dont - 4/1/2006 3:57:36 PM

mglavin

Posts: 5200
Joined: 11/29/2001
From: Elverta, CA, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tail strike

Michael,
When using my HFP-10 and set the center at 0 some of my HS 5645MG servos you can't put the servo arm on the output shaft and have the arm 90% to the servo case.
It will be off just a little.
I am wondering if I can take the top of the case off and rearrange the gears so the servo arm
will be 90% to the case?
I know you will say just adjust it with the programmer till it is centered.
I have done that but when I put the servos in my plane one on each half of my elevator they will travel in sink from center up to the end point, but from center down one side travels a little faster than the other side and goes a little farther down than the other.
Please help I'm going bald.

For best results talk to the paw

I'm a little confused, are you programming the servo to 90* perpendicular to the case with the arm in place that’s being used in the model or utilizing a different arm?

Something that typically is realized after programming the servos for neutral is the realization that their TX does not output the `1500us control signal at neutral, therefore the servo does not center as programmed simply because the signals differ. The fix is to learn what it takes to accommodate the TX output and program accordingly. To start with make sure the TX sub-trim and trims are zeroed and that the TX ATV/EPA's are equal in both directions in all rates.

Chances are the model and or TX setup is the source of the unequal surface deflection. Slight variables realized in model construction, control arm placement and pivot point height and linkage cause this problem atypically.

I'd suggest that you validate the surfaces travel arcs are identical to ensure equal throw. This is done with the linkage in place and attached to the servo while moving the surface through its travel arc manually. You'll need a 4" photo copied protractor that is taped in place and centered on the servo output shaft and a device to measure surface throw. The goal is to realize equal servo arm angle and equal surface throw in either up/down direction. You will not realize equal percentages between the two as the linkage ratio will prevent same. Some patience will be required initially but once you understand the methodology its all good. When its all said and done more likely than not you’ll find that when equal throw and servo arm angles are realized the servo arm is NOT 90* perpendicular to the servo case, it matters not as this is the true center of the surface travel arc, which is our primary concern.

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Hitec * Multiplex Field Representative

(in reply to tail strike)

Post #: 8

RE: 5645MGs on "Y" some work some dont - 4/1/2006 4:03:33 PM

mglavin

Posts: 5200
Joined: 11/29/2001
From: Elverta, CA, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: aerobear

quote:

ORIGINAL: mglavin

Early release v1.04 servos require more sinking current..........

So, early version 1.04 servos behave very differently from later version 1.04 servos. Wouldn't it avoid a lot of confusion if these two versions each had their OWN version number??? Maybe 1.04 and 1.04A or something along those lines?

As noted early v1.04's do not work with Futaba PCM RX's in multiples driven from a single channel source. I suppose an alternate number would serve some benefit, but the servos are one and the same once the component is updated, then what

_____________________________

Michael Glavin
RCU Community Moderator
Hitec * Multiplex Field Representative

(in reply to aerobear)

Post #: 9

RE: 5645MGs on "Y" some work some dont - 4/1/2006 7:05:17 PM

aerobear

Posts: 83
Joined: 5/12/2003
From: Sandy, UT, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mglavin

As noted early v1.04's do not work with Futaba PCM RX's in multiples driven from a single channel source. I suppose an alternate number would serve some benefit, but the servos are one and the same once the component is updated, then what

You call the newer version 1.04A. When someone sends in their early version 1.04 to get the updated part, the service tech slaps on a new sticker that says 1.04A. Is that so hard? It seems like a small effort to regain some customer trust after the initial screw up.

Still a bit sour that I spent hundreds of $ on servos that won't work right with my Futaba gear.

(in reply to mglavin)

Post #: 10

RE: 5645MGs on "Y" some work some dont - 4/1/2006 10:22:01 PM

mglavin

Posts: 5200
Joined: 11/29/2001
From: Elverta, CA, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: aerobear

quote:

ORIGINAL: mglavin

As noted early v1.04's do not work with Futaba PCM RX's in multiples driven from a single channel source. I suppose an alternate number would serve some benefit, but the servos are one and the same once the component is updated, then what

You call the newer version 1.04A. When someone sends in their early version 1.04 to get the updated part, the service tech slaps on a new sticker that says 1.04A. Is that so hard? It seems like a small effort to regain some customer trust after the initial screw up.

Still a bit sour that I spent hundreds of $ on servos that won't work right with my Futaba gear.

I hear you on the shortcoming, however if Futaba's PCM RX's provided the required sinking like all the rest; it would NOT have been a problem. It's an OEM compatibility conundrum for sure! Someday maybe all the OEM's will abide by known standards to prevent this sorta thing…

Sorry for the inconvenience, upgrades are free including return shipping.

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Michael Glavin
RCU Community Moderator
Hitec * Multiplex Field Representative

(in reply to aerobear)

Post #: 11

RE: 5645MGs on "Y" some work some dont - 4/1/2006 11:58:12 PM

tail strike

Posts: 537
Joined: 5/26/2003
From: Las Vegas, NV, USA
Status: offline

Michael,
I think something might be wrong with my programmer (I hope not I just got it back)
When I try to do a Tx signal pulse test I get 0us
And when I try to do a voltage test I get 0:00.
I do just what the instructions say.
For the pulse test I plug the programmer into the chanel I want to test push the input button to view the pulse from the Tx and nothing just 0us.
Same with the voltage test nothing.
Am I doing something wrong?
Larry

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Post #: 12

RE: 5645MGs on "Y" some work some dont - 4/2/2006 1:28:17 AM

mglavin

Posts: 5200
Joined: 11/29/2001
From: Elverta, CA, USA
Status: offline

Are you connecting the Programmer to a operable flight system, i.e. a powered RX that is functioning and drives servo from the TX? Essentially you would plug the Programmer in to any available RX port same as you would a servo, but the system must be turned on and able to drive servos for the programmer to note the voltage and pulse output.

Also validate the pigtail is in right port of the Programmer, you want the port denoted with "RX".

_____________________________

Michael Glavin
RCU Community Moderator
Hitec * Multiplex Field Representative

(in reply to tail strike)