Black Magic- Electric
03-12-2006, 10:06 PM
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Black Magic- Electric
Hello,
Well, I made it out to the field today to put the maiden flight on my new Black Magic. It really flies extremely well. I have never had a plane that flew this well right from the start. Here is what I have chosen to use in the new plane...
Plettenberg 30-10
Castle Creations 85HV controller
Tanic Packs- 5s2p batteries run in a 10s configuration. 4960 Mah
21x13wide APC prop
At full throttle, I am seeing the motor pulling 65 amps at around 2330 watts. I did not tach it, but it seemed very strong in the air and would pull straight out of sight. My motor temps were around 15-20 degrees above ambient which was in the 85-95 degree F range today. The packs were between 100-115 degrees F. The weight was a big concern for the builder (Mike Hester). But, the weight is 10 pounds, 10 ounces. For the size of this airplane, that is definitely an accomplishment.
I was able to make several flights going through the Masters pattern. Man, this thing really grooves and the electric set-up is very nice. I think I am going to like the !QUOT!dark side!QUOT! as some of the local fliers call it. Hopefully, I'll get some pictures posted later this week. I have not had a chance to put all the graphics and decals on it yet. It looks like I am using around 3500-3700 mah to get through the Masters pattern and still having some time to play around after. Have I mentioned this thing flew well???
Well, I made it out to the field today to put the maiden flight on my new Black Magic. It really flies extremely well. I have never had a plane that flew this well right from the start. Here is what I have chosen to use in the new plane...
Plettenberg 30-10
Castle Creations 85HV controller
Tanic Packs- 5s2p batteries run in a 10s configuration. 4960 Mah
21x13wide APC prop
At full throttle, I am seeing the motor pulling 65 amps at around 2330 watts. I did not tach it, but it seemed very strong in the air and would pull straight out of sight. My motor temps were around 15-20 degrees above ambient which was in the 85-95 degree F range today. The packs were between 100-115 degrees F. The weight was a big concern for the builder (Mike Hester). But, the weight is 10 pounds, 10 ounces. For the size of this airplane, that is definitely an accomplishment.
I was able to make several flights going through the Masters pattern. Man, this thing really grooves and the electric set-up is very nice. I think I am going to like the !QUOT!dark side!QUOT! as some of the local fliers call it. Hopefully, I'll get some pictures posted later this week. I have not had a chance to put all the graphics and decals on it yet. It looks like I am using around 3500-3700 mah to get through the Masters pattern and still having some time to play around after. Have I mentioned this thing flew well???
03-12-2006, 11:05 PM
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RE: Black Magic- Electric
I'm sure glad you liked it. [8D]
I have to admit, I was skeptical. I was really concerned about making weight when Emory told me which packs and motor he was using. most people said it would be all but impossible, especially for a wood plane. But those packs are slightly over 3 lbs, and it came out 10-10; with TP pro lites it would have been about 10-4 or so.
But I wouldn't touch it. It's almost 12 hours after it first flew, and my jaw is still hanging open. Mine (with OS 140s) flies way awesome too, but this thing.........my god, I'm just speechless. it may have been fair amount of work, but it was worth it to see the looks on everyone's faces.....and that includes Top Gun flyers (and winners).....when this thing flew with Emory at the sticks. By the 4th flight he looked like he'd been flying it for years.
I'll leave it be and let Emory go into detail, but I don't know if it was the plane, the pilot, the weather, the electric set up or a really matched combination of everything, but that was way cool to watch.
Now take care of it!!!! LOL And I'll see ya in the morning.
-Mike
I have to admit, I was skeptical. I was really concerned about making weight when Emory told me which packs and motor he was using. most people said it would be all but impossible, especially for a wood plane. But those packs are slightly over 3 lbs, and it came out 10-10; with TP pro lites it would have been about 10-4 or so.
But I wouldn't touch it. It's almost 12 hours after it first flew, and my jaw is still hanging open. Mine (with OS 140s) flies way awesome too, but this thing.........my god, I'm just speechless. it may have been fair amount of work, but it was worth it to see the looks on everyone's faces.....and that includes Top Gun flyers (and winners).....when this thing flew with Emory at the sticks. By the 4th flight he looked like he'd been flying it for years.
I'll leave it be and let Emory go into detail, but I don't know if it was the plane, the pilot, the weather, the electric set up or a really matched combination of everything, but that was way cool to watch.
Now take care of it!!!! LOL And I'll see ya in the morning.
-Mike
03-12-2006, 11:13 PM
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RE: Black Magic- Electric
PICTURES PICTURES PICTURES!!!
Congrats on the maiden. Been looking forward to seeing how the electrified Black Magic turned out. WELCOME TO THE DARK SIDE... you'll never go back my friend!
The weight looks good too... 10 10 will probably be just about right... with a big fuse like the Black Magic has, or at least appears to have, you don't want to be too light... will get bounced around too much. If you used the lighter packs you might end up ballasting the plane up in windy conditions.
Anyway, congrats and let's see some pics!
Compliments to the designer, that plane just 'looks right'.
Tom
Congrats on the maiden. Been looking forward to seeing how the electrified Black Magic turned out. WELCOME TO THE DARK SIDE... you'll never go back my friend!
The weight looks good too... 10 10 will probably be just about right... with a big fuse like the Black Magic has, or at least appears to have, you don't want to be too light... will get bounced around too much. If you used the lighter packs you might end up ballasting the plane up in windy conditions.
Anyway, congrats and let's see some pics!
Compliments to the designer, that plane just 'looks right'.
Tom
03-12-2006, 11:37 PM
#4
RE: Black Magic- Electric
ORIGINAL: patternflyr
Hello,
Well, I made it out to the field today to put the maiden flight on my new Black Magic. It really flies extremely well. I have never had a plane that flew this well right from the start. Here is what I have chosen to use in the new plane...
Plettenberg 30-10
Castle Creations 85HV controller
Tanic Packs- 5s2p batteries run in a 10s configuration. 4960 Mah
21x13wide APC prop
At full throttle, I am seeing the motor pulling 65 amps at around 2330 watts. I did not tach it, but it seemed very strong in the air and would pull straight out of sight. My motor temps were around 15-20 degrees above ambient which was in the 85-95 degree F range today. The packs were between 100-115 degrees F. The weight was a big concern for the builder (Mike Hester). But, the weight is 10 pounds, 10 ounces. For the size of this airplane, that is definitely an accomplishment.
I was able to make several flights going through the Masters pattern. Man, this thing really grooves and the electric set-up is very nice. I think I am going to like the !QUOT!dark side!QUOT! as some of the local fliers call it. Hopefully, I'll get some pictures posted later this week. I have not had a chance to put all the graphics and decals on it yet. It looks like I am using around 3500-3700 mah to get through the Masters pattern and still having some time to play around after. Have I mentioned this thing flew well???
Hello,
Well, I made it out to the field today to put the maiden flight on my new Black Magic. It really flies extremely well. I have never had a plane that flew this well right from the start. Here is what I have chosen to use in the new plane...
Plettenberg 30-10
Castle Creations 85HV controller
Tanic Packs- 5s2p batteries run in a 10s configuration. 4960 Mah
21x13wide APC prop
At full throttle, I am seeing the motor pulling 65 amps at around 2330 watts. I did not tach it, but it seemed very strong in the air and would pull straight out of sight. My motor temps were around 15-20 degrees above ambient which was in the 85-95 degree F range today. The packs were between 100-115 degrees F. The weight was a big concern for the builder (Mike Hester). But, the weight is 10 pounds, 10 ounces. For the size of this airplane, that is definitely an accomplishment.
I was able to make several flights going through the Masters pattern. Man, this thing really grooves and the electric set-up is very nice. I think I am going to like the !QUOT!dark side!QUOT! as some of the local fliers call it. Hopefully, I'll get some pictures posted later this week. I have not had a chance to put all the graphics and decals on it yet. It looks like I am using around 3500-3700 mah to get through the Masters pattern and still having some time to play around after. Have I mentioned this thing flew well???
You will never go back Give a 21x14 a try on that motor as well, about the same load as the 13W, but I feel it has similar if not more power and a better constant speed about it.
03-13-2006, 03:32 PM
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RE: Black Magic- Electric
Thanks Chad,
I will give the 21x14 a try in the near future. For now with a new airplane and a contest in a few days, I'm not touching it
I will get some pictures posted before this coming weekend, since I plan to have all the graphics finished by the Ocala contest.
Emory.
I will give the 21x14 a try in the near future. For now with a new airplane and a contest in a few days, I'm not touching it
I will get some pictures posted before this coming weekend, since I plan to have all the graphics finished by the Ocala contest.
Emory.
03-16-2006, 10:34 PM
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RE: Black Magic- Electric
OK, here are some new photos of the electric Black Magic. I was finally able to get some graphics slapped on there. These photos are taken indoors, so aren't the greatest. I will get some new pictures taken this weekend.
03-21-2006, 10:16 PM
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RE: Black Magic- Electric
Well, sadly, my plane met a premature end this past weekend. After only 18 flights, it bit the dust due to some sort of radio interference or failure. I lost count, but I think I am either in the 3rd or 4th stage of grieving at this point. I should have some good pictures to post soon. A few guys took some down at Ocala.
Anyway, the only good news is that I have another one. But, I hate to see the first one go so soon.
Emory.
Anyway, the only good news is that I have another one. But, I hate to see the first one go so soon.
Emory.
03-22-2006, 06:20 PM
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RE: Black Magic- Electric
This is a great pic. It was taken right after the 4th round on Saturday, only 1.5 pts out of first (out of 3000 points). I understand Dean has some super great pics.
RIP, E-1. I think I'm on about the second stage myself......
-Mike
RIP, E-1. I think I'm on about the second stage myself......
-Mike
03-25-2006, 10:11 PM
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RE: Black Magic- Electric
Emory,
Thank you for letting me fly your V2-e at Ocala. I just wish we found the cause of the problem before Sunday morning. I know it's hard, but V2-e2 is waiting to get in the air
You've still got my program, so give it a try and carry a bit more power and you'll be grovin again.
Jason
Thank you for letting me fly your V2-e at Ocala. I just wish we found the cause of the problem before Sunday morning. I know it's hard, but V2-e2 is waiting to get in the air
You've still got my program, so give it a try and carry a bit more power and you'll be grovin again.Jason
03-27-2006, 12:16 AM
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RE: Black Magic- Electric
Thanks Jason,
I'd be real bummed if I didn't have another one to fall back on. I'm going to get all the electronics sent in this week (RX, TX, servos, etc...). I hope they will find a reason for the crash, but I know that I may never find out what happened. Anyway, I'll soon get the other one in the air.
Emory
I'd be real bummed if I didn't have another one to fall back on. I'm going to get all the electronics sent in this week (RX, TX, servos, etc...). I hope they will find a reason for the crash, but I know that I may never find out what happened. Anyway, I'll soon get the other one in the air.
Emory
08-07-2006, 11:47 PM
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RE: Black Magic- Electric
Hello Emory,
Wondering if you got BM V2E #2 airborne? Sure would like to see some photos, if so. Was also curious what you would run this time for power. I bought a kit from Mike and was going to go 2C glow, but a friend went electric in his Brio and that got me thinking about electric if I can make the the whole project make sense from a building and cost perspective.
Gene
Wondering if you got BM V2E #2 airborne? Sure would like to see some photos, if so. Was also curious what you would run this time for power. I bought a kit from Mike and was going to go 2C glow, but a friend went electric in his Brio and that got me thinking about electric if I can make the the whole project make sense from a building and cost perspective.
Gene
08-08-2006, 07:12 AM
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RE: Black Magic- Electric
Hey Gene,
I did finally get it going this past weekend. I decided to try an AXI 5330/FAI motor up front this time. It was extremely powerful, but drew more amps at full throttle than I was comfortable with (87). So, I just flew some short 6 minute flights to get used to it. It was spinning a 20x15e prop at 6400-6500 rpm. The airplane flew great! Mike has just really done a wonderful job building/designing this plane.
So, maybe I just need to try a smaller prop? Any thoughts out there? One concerning thing happened. Twice during flying, the motor cut out and I essentially had a deadstick landing. I don't know if this is a function of overstressing the system with such high amps. I am using the CC HV 85 and I believe I had it set up for a soft cutoff at 30 volts, but I will check. Any other thoughts?
Thanks,
Emory.
I did finally get it going this past weekend. I decided to try an AXI 5330/FAI motor up front this time. It was extremely powerful, but drew more amps at full throttle than I was comfortable with (87). So, I just flew some short 6 minute flights to get used to it. It was spinning a 20x15e prop at 6400-6500 rpm. The airplane flew great! Mike has just really done a wonderful job building/designing this plane.
So, maybe I just need to try a smaller prop? Any thoughts out there? One concerning thing happened. Twice during flying, the motor cut out and I essentially had a deadstick landing. I don't know if this is a function of overstressing the system with such high amps. I am using the CC HV 85 and I believe I had it set up for a soft cutoff at 30 volts, but I will check. Any other thoughts?
Thanks,
Emory.
08-08-2006, 09:02 AM
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RE: Black Magic- Electric
Emory,
87 amps is approaching 20C...actually 17.5C for those batteries. Are they capable of delivering that kind of current? Have you checked the voltage under that load?
Wiz
87 amps is approaching 20C...actually 17.5C for those batteries. Are they capable of delivering that kind of current? Have you checked the voltage under that load?
Wiz
08-08-2006, 11:22 AM
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RE: Black Magic- Electric
Hey Wiz,
The two sets of 5000 packs that I have are listed for 20-30C, so they should be fine. The older 4960's that I have are 15-20C, so that is pushing them a little. I plugged the watt meter between the batteries and the ESC. That is where I came up with the 87 amps while the motor was at full throttle. I don't think I looked fast enough at the watt meter. When I saw 87 amps, I backed it down. I did see something like 3300 watts, but did not notice the volts.
Thanks,
Emory
The two sets of 5000 packs that I have are listed for 20-30C, so they should be fine. The older 4960's that I have are 15-20C, so that is pushing them a little. I plugged the watt meter between the batteries and the ESC. That is where I came up with the 87 amps while the motor was at full throttle. I don't think I looked fast enough at the watt meter. When I saw 87 amps, I backed it down. I did see something like 3300 watts, but did not notice the volts.
Thanks,
Emory
08-08-2006, 11:29 AM
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RE: Black Magic- Electric
Well the 17.5C figure I threw out was based on the 4960 mah packs, but obviously 5000 mah isn't all that much different. I'm a little suspicious of 20C and higher ratings on Lipos. It would be interesting to see how big the actual voltage drop is under that kind of load.
08-08-2006, 11:30 AM
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RE: Black Magic- Electric
Emory you can cut your high throttle setting down to keep the amps to a better level not that your all that high. My guess is that your not coming close to full throttle in flight or at least don't need too, I had to set my 9C high throttle to 0% and that kept the amps to 76 and I still don't come close to full throttle. The AXI makes big power. My setup is Jeti 90, APC 22x12e, TP 5300.
Steve Maxwell
Steve Maxwell
08-08-2006, 07:59 PM
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RE: Black Magic- Electric
Hey Steve,
I had considered doing what you said with the ATV. Someone told me that the ESC sees the full amp load all the time and just pulses the electricity to the motor depending on the throttle position. I don't know if that's correct or if it even makes a difference to the longevity of the setup. I will probably try that next weekend.
Thanks,
Emory
I had considered doing what you said with the ATV. Someone told me that the ESC sees the full amp load all the time and just pulses the electricity to the motor depending on the throttle position. I don't know if that's correct or if it even makes a difference to the longevity of the setup. I will probably try that next weekend.
Thanks,
Emory
08-08-2006, 09:23 PM
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RE: Black Magic- Electric
Emory,
Check out post #78 here by Jim Oddino... does a better job explaining this than I could...[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3212114/mpage_4/key_/tm.htm]click here[/link]
I have yet to see an issue with high amperages taken from WOT static readings... My 150 cycle + TPs are still around, as are my 100+ cycle Flight Powers.
FWIW
Tom M.
Check out post #78 here by Jim Oddino... does a better job explaining this than I could...[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3212114/mpage_4/key_/tm.htm]click here[/link]
I have yet to see an issue with high amperages taken from WOT static readings... My 150 cycle + TPs are still around, as are my 100+ cycle Flight Powers.
FWIW
Tom M.
08-09-2006, 11:33 AM
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RE: Black Magic- Electric
Well, checking the voltage drop at static full throttle can be an indicator that you are over taxing your batteries. It's been shown with flight recorders that you can exceed the current draw at static WOT for brief moments during maneuvers like snap rolls. It may well not be your problem, but it's a good idea to have a look at the voltage sag under the load of static WOT.
Wiz
Wiz
08-09-2006, 09:01 PM
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RE: Black Magic- Electric
OK, dumb question here... Does that mean that it may be going below the cutoff that I have programmed into the ESC? I have that set at 30 volts. Should that be lowered?
Thanks.
Thanks.
08-10-2006, 08:03 AM
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RE: Black Magic- Electric
Definitely not! You are running 10S (10 cells) right? Most battery MFG recomend that you set the LVC (low voltage cutoff) at between 3 volts per cell and 3.2. At 30 volts I'd say you are as low as you want to go. If you measure and find that you are pushing your batteries below 3 volts per cell you are asking for big trouble.