RE: Black Magic- Electric  
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RE: Black Magic- Electric - 8/10/2006 4:28:20 PM   
Mike Wiz


 

Posts: 557
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Linden, MI, USA
Status: offline 		Emory,

Have you tried a different ESC? It didn't sink in that you are running a Phoenix 85 with an outrunner. There are a lot of people having trouble with Castle ESCs and outrunner motors. I know CC is working hard on this and maybe they have the problem(s) solved, but it might be worth it to give a Jetti or Hacker ESC a try..... Maybe even borrow one just for test.

Say, did you build these Black Magic airframes yourself? The reason I ask is that I'm very interested in giving one a try, but I've never built any precision airframes before and I'm a little intimidated by it.

(in reply to Mike Wiz)
       Post #: 26

RE: Black Magic- Electric - 8/11/2006 2:23:06 AM   
patternflyr



Posts: 169
Joined: 1/16/2003
From: Griffin, GA, USA
Status: offline 		About the only credit I can take for anything on my Black Magic is the vinyl. Mike built them for me and did a fantastic job!

It might be worth a try to use a different ESC.

Thanks,
Emory

(in reply to Mike Wiz)
       Post #: 27

RE: Black Magic- Electric - 8/11/2006 5:00:50 AM   
MHester



Posts: 2378
Joined: 10/27/2002
From: Woodstock, GA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Wiz


Say, did you build these Black Magic airframes yourself? The reason I ask is that I'm very interested in giving one a try, but I've never built any precision airframes before and I'm a little intimidated by it.


I get that a lot

I'd have to say it's intimidating until you start building it, then the next comment I get is "WOW that was easy and faster than I thought!"

It's basically a box with rounded cores and composites glued to it. I would say the hardest part is sheeting the parts. The framing of the plane itself is a piece of cake.

It's a great candidate for electric, because it takes full advantage of what an electric can do with very few compromises. It's not specifically geared toward the FAI "F" pattern, which makes it one heck of a pattern plane. Most planes today are geared specifically for that pattern, and compromise too much in my opinion for everything else. It will do the F pattern, and very well I might add, but it does take more effort than planes specifically designed for it. Which is almost every current pattern plane on the market BTW.....

However, it really shines in the P pattern, and all of the AMA classes. You'd have to see one track, roll and snap to appreciate it. I'm probably biased, but this is pretty much exactly what I get from everyone who's flown it or judged it. I don't mean it to sound like it's revolutionary, it's not. It's just a different approach than most other planes are taking, and it definitely feels different than most any other plane.

The construction is as basic as it gets in a builder's kit. if you can build a straight box, you can build a straight Black Magic. If you can weigh a piece of wood, you can build a light Black Magic.

Just thought I'd chime in.

BTW Emory, after really thinking hard about it, I'm not sure I'd change that prop if I could avoid it. That thing is the strongest E-pattern plane I have yet to see. Anywhere. I'd be looking for ways to make it work if at all possible.

-Mike


_____________________________

Owner Custom Airframes of America, Team YS, Mercury Adhesives

(in reply to Mike Wiz)
       Post #: 28

RE: Black Magic- Electric - 8/11/2006 5:03:22 AM   
MHester



Posts: 2378
Joined: 10/27/2002
From: Woodstock, GA, USA
Status: offline 		Geez I'm starting to sound like a salesman, sorry.....LOL

-Mike

_____________________________

Owner Custom Airframes of America, Team YS, Mercury Adhesives

(in reply to MHester)
       Post #: 29

RE: Black Magic- Electric - 8/11/2006 2:13:05 PM   
Mike Wiz


 

Posts: 557
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Linden, MI, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MHester

Geez I'm starting to sound like a salesman, sorry.....LOL

-Mike


No appologies necessary, Mike. It's a good looking plane and you are understandably proud of it. I think I'm going to give one a try for this up coming winter building season. I like the idea of haveing a capable pattern plane that isn't an ARF and didn't cost me an arm and a leg.

(in reply to MHester)
       Post #: 30

RE: Black Magic- Electric - 8/15/2006 2:00:54 AM   
patternflyr



Posts: 169
Joined: 1/16/2003
From: Griffin, GA, USA
Status: offline 		Alright, I had a chance to get out to the field today and get just 3 more flights on the eBlack Magic. Still having some issues, but it's better.
Adjusted the throttle curve so that was much improved.
Adjusted the ATV on the high end throttle and limited the max amps to 78. Didn't tach it, but the power was still very good. I don't think I had to ever use full throttle.
Flight 1- Flew around for about 2 minutes and then the motor cut out again like it did last weekend. Landed with the motor turning, but not really responding. After about 10-15 seconds and after landing, the motor control was back. So, I just decided to try a different ESC (another CC HV85). I swapped that out. It has the same settings.
Flight 2- Flew around about 1 minute, same thing happened. Landed, hooked up a watt meter right after that. I was seeing around 78 amps, 2500 watts, and the voltage was down to 34 at full throttle (still well above the 30 cutoff). Alright, Mike Hester and Jim Ivey were there and suggested trying something different. I had been running the brake and not spinning the prop at the bottom of the throttle position (just hadn't made it that far in programing the radio, I like using the throttle cutoff on a switch). So, I clicked in a couple bits of throttle on the trim and took off using the same battery packs, etc... Flew about six minutes with no cutting out.
Flight 3- Flew through the masters pattern for the first time. Left in the clicks of trim so it was idling at a few hundred RPM. No issues with the flight.
So, at least for now, that seems to have made a difference.
One negative observation. The AXI/HV85 combo still seems to have some software issues. I have downloaded the most recent ESC software and I'm still getting some screeching from the motor. Not as often as I did using the Plett 30-10 before the newer software, but still often enough to be annoying.
The AXI 5330 seems like a fantastic motor. Definitely has more punch than the older Plett 30-10 and the price is nice. Hey, at least that is one thing on this plane that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. Also, I have a NioseSink installed between the ESC and Motor. There is no question that this has greatly improved my range check!

Emory.

(in reply to Mike Wiz)
       Post #: 31

RE: Black Magic- Electric - 8/15/2006 3:43:06 AM   
Adamg-RCU



Posts: 722
Joined: 4/22/2003
From: Saskatoon, SK, CANADA
Status: offline 		Emory, link to noise sink please?
-Adam

(in reply to patternflyr)
       Post #: 32

RE: Black Magic- Electric - 8/15/2006 3:49:10 AM   
patternflyr



Posts: 169
Joined: 1/16/2003
From: Griffin, GA, USA
Status: offline 		Here you go...
http://www.multimodetech.com/

Emory.

(in reply to Adamg-RCU)
       Post #: 33

RE: Black Magic- Electric - 8/15/2006 4:01:41 AM   
ExFokkerFlyer



Posts: 426
Joined: 5/3/2002
From: Fresno, CA,
Status: offline 		Glad to hear the AXI is running good for you. I have had two airplanes without a choke, and after all the issues I had with the third plane, I will never fly without one in an electric pattern plane again. Futaba's choke works quite well, and I have had no range or interferance issues with the last two planes at all.

_____________________________

Any pilot can describe the mechanics of flying. What it can do for the spirit of man is beyond description.- Barry Goldwater

(in reply to Adamg-RCU)
       Post #: 34

RE: Black Magic- Electric - 8/15/2006 4:34:22 PM   
Mike Wiz


 

Posts: 557
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Linden, MI, USA
Status: offline 		Emory,

I'm glad that you have the problem under control, if not solved. Of the CC controllers I've had (a lot!) I've only had two setups that screeched. Both were with an outrunner. Once was a Phoenix 60 and an AXI 4120/14 and one was a Phoenix 10 and an Eflite Park 370. Both times it seemed to be down on power when the motor screeched. I've never had another contoller brand that made the motor screech.

That noise sink is an interesting little device. In all the years I've been flying electric power, (about 10) I've never had to use a choke of any kind. I wonder if whatever is causing the screeching went away, the need for the choke would also go away?

(in reply to ExFokkerFlyer)
       Post #: 35

RE: Black Magic- Electric - 8/20/2006 9:37:08 PM   
gene webber


 

Posts: 80
Joined: 7/30/2005
From: Sacramento, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Hey Emory,

What are the chances of posting some pics of your motor installation and the innards of your plane showing battery and equipment lay-out. I know it's a pain, but it would be greatly appreciated. You know us pattern types love lookin' under the hood.

Thanks a million...

Gene

(in reply to Mike Wiz)
       Post #: 36

RE: Black Magic- Electric - 8/21/2006 3:10:04 AM   
patternflyr



Posts: 169
Joined: 1/16/2003
From: Griffin, GA, USA
Status: offline 		Hey Gene,

I'll get some posted soon. Mike Hester and I were flying last weekend and while I was changing out an ESC, he took some photos of the !QUOT!innerds!QUOT!. So, we'll get them posted soon. Also, I finally put on my graphics tonight. I'll take some new photos tomorrow. It looks pretty much like to old one, but I changed the graphics just a bit.

BTW, I flew it again this weekend. The ESC is better, but by no means where it needs to be. It still screeched at least once a flight (almost, I think I had one clean flight out of four) which caused the airplane to loose power. I had to bail out of the maneuver and bring the motor back to idol and then it worked fine again. But, I didn't have to land the plane like I did the week before. I think I will call Castle tomorrow. It has been suggested that perhaps this is too much prop and I may want to try something a little smaller. I really like this 15 pitch prop (20x15) as it seems to have good speed if needed. I considered cutting one down to a 19!QUOT! to try, but I may also try some other 20!QUOT! props. Anyway, this motor seems to be doing well and just hasn't gotten hot yet. I don't think I have seen it much over 100 degrees F. Even checking it minutes later and on the windings. I assume this is all good. The speed controller is around 105 F and the batteries were between 120-130 F. So far, I seem to be using between 3000-4000 mah to fly the masters pattern plus about 5-6 maneuvers. If I get this ESC issue worked out, I think I am really going to like this!

Thanks,
Emory

(in reply to gene webber)
       Post #: 37

RE: Black Magic- Electric - 8/21/2006 3:27:01 AM   
PatternPilot



Posts: 521
Joined: 11/17/2002
From: Knoxville, TN, USA
Status: offline 		Emory,

Dan and myself are using the 20x13 APC e prop with out any problems.. (5330/FAI) you could also save some weight going to a HV45 and just have some good cooling to it.. Try to talk to Bernie at CC here is his Ex: 123

I also have some other props if you want to do some testing.

Scott Anderson
Team Castle Creations
Team Tanicpacks.com

PS: I'm going to hook up with Mike H. on Wednesday and get a good look at the BM..

(in reply to patternflyr)
       Post #: 38

RE: Black Magic- Electric - 8/21/2006 9:30:58 PM   
patternflyr



Posts: 169
Joined: 1/16/20