Hanger9 P-47 Thunderbolt 150 assembly notes. (Full Version)

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MikeS -> Hanger9 P-47 Thunderbolt 150 assembly notes. (3/14/2006 8:03:02 PM)

I got my Giant Scale P-47 Last Thursday and am as far as I can go at the time being, so I thought I'd post a few quirks and problems. I have 5 peeves and only one real problem, but thought it would good to post my probs, maybe someone will have a solution I have not thought of.

General - The fit and finish of the airplane is superb. It is designed very light, with lots of attention to detail and good thought into how to equip it with standard high-torque servos throughout.

Problems - Only one and that is a material problem. The retract mechanism is oleo strut ready, meaning you don't use music wire into the strut and retract. The size control of the struts and the drilled holes in the mechanism are not very precise. One strut is so tight it will barely allow itself to be forced into the hole, the other so loose that the the retract can't be tightened enough to hold it in place. The result, a retract that is not usable. It seems to me that the struts are slightly different, and onme is too small. I called Horizon Hobbby, and they do not have the struts in stock, so I may have to wait until they are available before my airplane is redy to fly.

A word on the retracts. The instructions say it is designed around a low-profile retract servo and recommends the JRPS791. I had Hitec 77's on hand, but they won't fit so I had to order the JR servo. Horizon only had one in stock between their Midwest and California facilities, so that is on backorder, too. Another delay.

Here are my peeves. None of these are problems, just my preferences.

1. Pushrods are 4-40 metal rods in plastic tubes. The tubes are already glued in the fuselage. I prefer carbon fiber pushrods, but it would take extensive modifications to use anything other than the metal rods.

2. The plastic tubes only allow one location for the servos in the fuse. While there is lots of room, the servos are on rails with pre-drilled holes in locations where the plastic guide tubes come out. The problem? The elevators use one servo per side and both guide tube runs are on the outside of the fuse, on opposite sides. You need either an extra receiver slot, a JR Matchbox, or a a reversing y harness to get the servos to push'pull in the same directions. In fact, this occurs not only with the two elevator servos, but the retract servos and the flap servos as well. You need either a 9-channel radio, three reversing harnesses or three matchboxes to get them to work correctly. That's too mych. It would take so little design to put route the elevator rod to the other side of one servo, or put the flap hatches slightly offset so the servos could be mounted so they operate alike to relieve this problem.

3. All the pushrods use, on one end, a 90 degree bend and plastic snap keepers. I can't seem to get a good enough bend that they work without forcing them onto the rods. That's especially so when you have to make a tight bend while the metal rod is rigidle locked into place inside the fuse. I replaced these with silver-soldered clevises.

4. The top hatch is huge, taking up the entire canopy and going all the way to the firewall. The problem - when the cowl is in place, the hatch can not be removed. I think I can change that with a little filing on the aluminum posts that secure the hatch onto the fuse.

5. The flaps use robart hinge point like hinges. One one flap, the holes were drilled so that the flap was 1/4 inch lower than the top surface of the wing. I saw this, but went ahead gluing thinking I could jam it in a little further and achieve a match. Wrong. I shouold have redrilled the hinge holes.

6. Using the Saito 180 four stroke, the throttle arm is right up against the firewall and the pushrod is very tight. This causes binding, making the throttle operation very hard. I think a cable will do better than the pushrod provided.

7. All of the control horn installations have wood screws screwed into hardwood, except the elevator horns, which screw into balsa, using #2 by 1/2 inch wood screws. The instructions have you put thin CA in the screw holes. I would have preferred holes that go all the way through and are captured by a plate on the opposite side, but with thick wood, the standard three-hole control horn is hard to install. I did it their way to see if it works, and I will go to a type of horn that goes thru the control surface if I find any sign that the wood screws are coming loose. I don't see it failing in mid air, but I am a little uncomfortable with it.


All things considered, this is a very good airplane that is well designed and supplied with lots of hardware that should work fine. Once I get the new struts, I will let you know how it flies, but at a calculated 31 ounces per square foot wing loading, it should fly really nice.

Oh yeah, ever have screws and other things left over? There are two four inch long metal bolts with 1/2 inch 4-40 (i think) threads on one end and 1/2 inch wide knurled knobs on the other. They do not show up anywhere in the instructions. Anyone know wjat they are for??

Mike




Bob Laine -> RE: Hanger9 P-47 Thunderbolt 150 assembly notes. (3/14/2006 8:55:17 PM)

Mikes: The problems you are encountering with your Hanger9 Arf, are not at all uncommon on a 1st release of any ARF. The next shipment will no doubt have most the problems you've described, worked out in the next run. Anyone that's been in this hobby long enough will know that WE...you and I, the consumer will be the final "test pilot's" for all the manufacturers. They rely us, and our input to perfect their models. Most of the little Peeve's, you mentioned, are just normal things that you'll find in any ARF. I've never seen one ARF, that I didn't have to change something that I didn't like in it's design. I've been looking at the Hanger9 "Razorback," for awhile now, and from the way you've described it, I don't see anything that would deter me from buying it.

PS Is it possible that you got the two side of the flaps reversed? Remember, They only have to go down, and the alighnment might be why they arent lining up with the top of the wing. Check the measurement on the flap hinges. They may not be in the center of the flap, if so just cut the hinges and reverse them.




MikeS -> RE: Hanger9 P-47 Thunderbolt 150 assembly notes. (3/14/2006 11:45:01 PM)

The flap hinge points are on the lower edge of the flap and the lower edge of the wing. The hinges are installed in a vee, almost closed and the hinge is in the under wing airstream. This makes them lower down and out away from the wing. There's no way to get them reversed or upside down because of the covering and shape.

You are right, my peeves are not anything that would keep me from buying the plane. Like I said, fit and finish is excellent - best I've seen in an arf. Buy it, but check your retracts before you leave the store.

Mike




Bob Laine -> RE: Hanger9 P-47 Thunderbolt 150 assembly notes. (3/14/2006 11:53:31 PM)

MikeS: Only thing I could think of that may cause the flap to be lower than the wing. I'll have a heads up when I buy mine and see if I can see what the problem is. One things for sure.....I'd find away to make them fit, even if I had to remove the hinges, and use "CA" hinges, even if I had to adjust the leading edge of the flap. As far as the Retracts, I'm probably change them out with a set of "Rhom Air's". Good luck with the project, and let us know how it flys.




barking -> RE: Hanger9 P-47 Thunderbolt 150 assembly notes. (3/15/2006 11:17:29 PM)

My P-47 has exactly the same faults. The one problem which I cannot overcome is the gear struts. One is too small and the other too large! Not being able to bend the rudder 90 deg inside the fuse is not a big deal BUT the defeciive gear should not have been shipped. Also, did Horizon tell you that the JR retract servo will not operate on 6V. In fact it will not operate with a 4.8V pack peaked at about 5.0V!! Did they say when you might receive the replacement gear?




asnook -> RE: Hanger9 P-47 Thunderbolt 150 assembly notes. (3/16/2006 9:46:29 AM)

Hi Barking

Can you please expand about the retract sevos, are you talking about JR 791's i have had a lot of trouble getting them to work properly although i am using Futaba 9 ch PCM reciever. What do you mean not working at 4.8 v peaked at 5v.
Thanks




MikeS -> RE: Hanger9 P-47 Thunderbolt 150 assembly notes. (3/16/2006 6:11:45 PM)

I did not know about the 6v problem, and I have installed a 6v system already. I went and got the EDR-111 bus just for that purpose.

Horizon never called me back so I called again and they gave me the big shrug. They do not know when they will have struts available nor do they now when they will have another arf to rob for its strut.

Barking, is your bad one the left strut? Mine's the left and from what you say, the struts may not be fixable with Hanger Nine products.




MikeS -> RE: Hanger9 P-47 Thunderbolt 150 assembly notes. (3/19/2006 11:16:37 PM)

Now I am getting frustrated.
The JR retract servos this plane is designed around are not available ANYWHERE!!!! I've tried others and there is no room to drill new holes to mount the servos.
How could they put this out with NO SERVOS in stock in the ENTIRE WESTERN Hemisphere. And no estimate of backorder.


Anybody know if there is a brand of servos that use the same case as the JR??

Thanks.

Hanger 9 ... you really screwed up this new airplane. You can not build it and get it ready to fly with the products at hand, it rerquires too many add-on electronics and the struts are of really low quality.




Stickbuilder -> RE: Hanger9 P-47 Thunderbolt 150 assembly notes. (3/20/2006 12:34:18 AM)

I just bought JR 791 from Noells Hobbies in Wildwood Florida last week. I don't have the phone number, but you can get it from directory assistance the area code is 352. Wait, I do have the number 352-748-0031 They are open from noon until 7 pm eastern time. If you really must have it, I have a new one that I can/will loan until they are available. Get in touch.
Bill




mirwin -> RE: Hanger9 P-47 Thunderbolt 150 assembly notes. (3/20/2006 4:20:09 AM)

Would you guys consider posting to the long=term thread (http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4048426) so everybody will benefit from your experiences? It would sure be nice to not have to hop back-n-forth between threads.

Thanks,
Mike





DocYates -> RE: Hanger9 P-47 Thunderbolt 150 assembly notes. (3/20/2006 7:05:50 PM)

I am still waiting on my P-47, which evidently will be in the second shipment according the LHS. I noticed where the 731 retracts servos were out of stock at Horizon, and people were not able to get them. i did a search on Google and found several hobby shops which sell them, and almost all of them had them in stock. I just ordered two from a hobby shop in Montana for $56.99 each. I think yo ucan find them if you look around a bit. That may not be the case when everyone starts trying to find them. I too hate the fact that Horizon released the kit without having all the accessories required readily available, but from all I hear the kit has been worth the wait.
Tommy




barking -> RE: Hanger9 P-47 Thunderbolt 150 assembly notes. (3/27/2006 11:38:49 PM)

Sorry for the late reply-out of town...The JR retract servo will not work on 6.0v. It will not move. AND if the 4.8v pack is peaked out (just charged) it will not operate until the voltage drops. JR is well aware of this but still will not tell!!. I am using the Hitec as it has ample torque and loves 6.0v..Best, Barking




barking -> RE: Hanger9 P-47 Thunderbolt 150 assembly notes. (3/27/2006 11:48:15 PM)

Mike, All of the kits shipped have one strut too small and one too large. They are well aware of this but as each of us call they pretend that you are the first!. Just as they will not tell us about the 6.0v problem which they have known about for a long time. The Hitec retract servo will work. It has enough torque and loves 6.0v. A DuBro arm will best. I have spent about $2000 with Horizon in the past 6 months and ordered the P-47 based largely on their reputation--no more!!Best,Larry




pettit -> RE: Hanger9 P-47 Thunderbolt 150 assembly notes. (4/12/2006 3:47:21 PM)

Very interesting comment on the JR retract servos not working with a 5 cell battery.

I am using a 5 cell 1650 maH NiMH battery connected to my JR receiver and 10 servos, including a pair of JR 791 retract servos. They pull the gear up and push them down just fine.

On the fuselage hatch not being able to be removed, elongate the slots that the front tabs fit into by about 1" each to the rear. Then you can get it on and off easily.

I had no problems finding the hardwood in the elevators. There is balsa on the TOP side of each elevator though, and maybe you installed yours upside down?

Using an Evolution 26 with its ignition battery on the engine box, perfect balance was achieved by positioning the receiver battery on the rearmost fuselage former under the canopy.

Total weight was 17.25 pounds, minus fuel and "ordinance".




JS615 -> RE: Hanger9 P-47 Thunderbolt 150 assembly notes. (4/19/2006 3:11:57 PM)

You guys have got me worried,,,!!!
I just started my h9 p47 150, and i to have had a little trouble here and there, (flaps not lineing up) etc,,
I test fitted the gear struts and they both fit, but i have not got to some of the other things like reverse y harnesses on the elevators and flaps,, i was told i would need them on the gear though,,
i am waiting on the 791 jr retract servos also,,,
Im using a jr radio and the 4.8v batteries, two 1800mah, one for back up..does that sound ok to you guys,,,,the way things are going with this plane i dont want to go out and buy anything else till i here its going to work!!!
What type of hytec retract servo would work with my system without having to modify the retract area on the plane???
from what im hearing the retract servos from h9 (791) are going to be backordered for a while!!!???
any help here would be great..




DocYates -> RE: Hanger9 P-47 Thunderbolt 150 assembly notes. (4/19/2006 3:20:59 PM)

I found the JR791 retracts servos in five minutes on the internet, there are many hobby shops out there who have them in stock and will ship today. I did use two reversing Y-harnesses. One for the flaps and one for the retracts. I did not need one for the ailerons as I recall. I plugged the elevator servos in seperate channels and mixed them, so I did not need one for that surface, but if you do not have that capability you will need a third reverser.
I had no probelms with the installation of the gear and once the correct HD servo spline was chosen they worked without a hiccup and retract and deploy totally in both directions. I would try my best to use the JR servo, that is one of the strongest things I have ever used, I swear I think you could hold on to the gear leg and the servo would move the plane....LOL.
I chose to use a 2100 mAh NI-MH battery 4.8 volt and it works perfectly with the gear, the original 6 volt did not work.
I am using a G-26, test flights are pending, but I will need only a little weight in the front to balance it (appears to be less than 4 ounces), but I am using a 1 1/2 inch Tru turn aluminum spinner and everything is moved forward as much as possible. I am also using a heavy manifold (muffler) for the G-26 than the one supplied.
Hopefully this will reassure you on your potential roadblocks, it is not as scary as it seems. It actually goes to gether rather quickly and well. Remember to line up your aielron and flaps at the trailing edge and disregard the side, it is normal to have a small uneven space between the aileron and flap.
Good luck
Tommy




JS615 -> RE: Hanger9 P-47 Thunderbolt 150 assembly notes. (4/19/2006 4:00:20 PM)

doc yates

Where did you find the 791 servos at ???




DocYates -> RE: Hanger9 P-47 Thunderbolt 150 assembly notes. (4/19/2006 4:03:27 PM)

I did a search for JR791 servos and started going down the list of hobby shops that had them listed. I found them at a hobby shop in North Dakota or somewhere like that. They had two on the shelf and sold them to me for $56.99 each. My friend did the same and found them in a hobby shop in Virgina I believe. They are out there, you just have to look around for them. I bet Horizon has them on the way and you should be able to get them fairly quickly. Give a search a try and see if you have any luck.
Tommy




JS615 -> RE: Hanger9 P-47 Thunderbolt 150 assembly notes. (4/19/2006 4:07:46 PM)

thanks doc.

by the way,,,i know this is off topic but dont you have a vmar mig 21, i thought i read a post some where on here from you about that,,,i have one and its ready for its first maiden,,i just wanted to know what you thought of it...




DocYates -> RE: Hanger9 P-47 Thunderbolt 150 assembly notes. (4/19/2006 4:50:03 PM)

I do have one, and I like it. It needs a .75 or larger to give it a litttle "ummph". Looks good in the air and the flaps are effective. Wanna go back now and add retracts.
Tommy




JS615 -> RE: Hanger9 P-47 Thunderbolt 150 assembly notes. (4/19/2006 6:10:19 PM)

cool doc

i have a supertiger G90 on mine.
i have that same engine on the f5 tiger also and it flys very good..




xman2004 -> RE: Hanger9 P-47 Thunderbolt 150 assembly notes. (12/3/2006 10:57:56 PM)

Hi,
I am thinking about getting the Thunderbolt 150, and using a gas motor - Horizon recommends a 26cc gas motor - it seems way to underpowered nest to Saito 220, which they also recommend. Equivalent gas motor to Saito 220 would be a 50cc gas motor, like DA50-R or ZDZ50 NG....Since I do not have the plane in hand as of yet, I cannot tell if those motors would work - do you think those are too big, or just right?
Thanks.




bschultz -> RE: Hanger9 P-47 Thunderbolt 150 assembly notes. (4/9/2007 4:54:42 AM)

I am running a First Place 2.4 (40cc) 20x10 on mine and flys great at about 1/2 throttle. With lots to spare.




larrysutherland -> RE: Hanger9 P-47 Thunderbolt 150 assembly notes. (12/6/2007 2:21:58 AM)

After seeing several P-47's fly, I'm thinking of buying one. I'd like to use a Saito 170 radial, but don't have a kit here to see if it would fit the cowl. It's 6" from rear to prop drive. The engine width [circumference] is a little over 7" and the cylinders are an inch and a half back from the prop. I'd sure appreciate any help I can get!




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