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Aileron control visualization - 12/8/2002 4:51:37 PM   
rajul



Posts: 6220
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Missouri City, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Hi Folks ! What is the best way to visualize aileron control as the plane is flying towards you ? There are two schools of thought here :

1) Push the aileron stick under the wing that you want to rise.

2) Visualize yourself in the cockpit, and push the aileron stick towards the wing that you want to bank.

How do top aerobatic flyers train themselves ? Do they use the first or second method ? The first method is straightforward but will it have any limitations later for advanced maneuvers ? The second method is more natural but takes more time to master. What is important here is that a beginner like me is trained using the "right form", as in any sports. Otherwise bad habits are picked up and will be difficult to change later. I hope that some recommendations will be forthcoming from top aerobatic flyers here. Thanks !

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Aileron control visualization - 12/8/2002 6:40:22 PM   
ritchie_rich



Posts: 108
Joined: 12/20/2001
From: springfield, OH, USA
Status: offline 		Rajul,everybody I have taught to fly I have them do it the first method you speak of and after a while it becomes second nature to you and you don't even think about it. And pratice, practice, practice. This is the way I taught my self to fly 25 yrs. ago.

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Aileron control visualization - 12/8/2002 7:16:16 PM   
robert


 

Posts: 2443
Joined: 3/2/2002
From: private, IRELAND
Status: offline 		I just learned from doing approaches and stuff like that when i was training. I just got used to it before I realised that it does change directions.

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Aileron control visualization - 12/9/2002 7:02:45 AM   
KeithB



Posts: 529
Joined: 1/6/2002
From: Garland, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Whatever works easiest for you (which for most people is not imagining yourself in the cockpit). When I learned I wasn't initially told about the pushing the wing up thing and I just knew I had to move the stick the opposite way I wanted it to go when it was coming at me.

Your point about learning correctly at first is very true for most things, however I wouldn't worry about developing bad habits in this case because whatever method you use you won't use it once you get enough hours in the air. It will soon become so natural that you don't even think about it. Somehow that processing seems to eventually be taken over by the subconscious portion of the brain and you'll just think "go that way" and low and behold it will!!!

Good luck,
Keith

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Aileron control visualization - 12/9/2002 9:29:35 AM   
GeeBeer



Posts: 101
Joined: 10/16/2002
From: Buna, TX, USA
Status: offline 		I learned by kind of half ass turning my back to the plane and looking over my sholder. It kept the same orientation. Eventualy, Quite soon too, I was facing the plane all the time. Now, I dont even think about it. I dont think about the low wing... or being in the cockpit or anything... reverse is the same as normal.

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Aileron control visualization - 12/9/2002 5:13:05 PM   
bla bla


 

Posts: 1580
Joined: 9/19/2002
From: Oslo, NORWAY
Status: offline 		Did anyone answer the question?
At your stage... push the stick and the wing that's down. People talk about being in the cockpit but thats a load of bull'. The best fliers rip through those mind numbing sequenses because they're flying a set rutine(s) and not some ramdom bits and pieces strung together. As soon as you're able you too should make a simple flight program consisting of various simple manuvours... stick to it and make yourself/ and the aeroplane do what you've decided in advance it's going to be doing. This is critical to start learning early otherwise you'll be chasing the aeroplane around the sky..it'll be one step ahead. Thats seriously amature status.
As you progress so can you'r program.
Enjoy.

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set routine ? - 12/9/2002 5:23:26 PM   
rajul



Posts: 6220
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Missouri City, TX, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by bla bla
The best fliers rip through those mind numbing sequenses because they're flying a set rutine(s) and not some ramdom bits and pieces strung together [/QUOTE]


Hi blabla, could you kindly explain in slightly more detail what you mean by "set routine" ? Thanks

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Aileron control visualization - 12/9/2002 6:29:51 PM   
bla bla


 

Posts: 1580
Joined: 9/19/2002
From: Oslo, NORWAY
Status: offline 		rajul.
A set rutine or flying a program is nothing more complicated than having ever manuvour pre decided in advance including take off and landing. The key is to fly exactly what you have decided to fly with nothing added and nothing taken away. I'ts what you'd have to do when to enter even a simple aerobatic contest.

For example.
Take off starts witha taxi out down the runway.
Stop. take deep breath. Advance throttle and make take off run. try and break grown exactly infront of you.
Fly straight away at an even angle...wings level. At end of run way make 90 degree turn, at a decent distance make a 270 dgree turn to bring you onto a the down wind pass. Thats called a trim pass.
At the end of the trim pass perform a simple turn around manuvour... Stall turn etc. (I don't know how well you fly so forgive me)

As the aeroplane flys past up wind perform a loop or two then fly straight and perform an other turnaround. Next pass perform a roll, turn around next pass inverted...etc etc. when you'r practicing the rutine can be made out of as many numbers of the same manouver as you want for example 10 loops and ten rolls...just remember some like to be performed into wind..some can be driven down wind.

Try and string 20 such things together including take of and landing. perform those 19 manuvors then land. Taxi back, take of again and do exactly the same thing. If you bum out a manuvour... get control, fly straight and carry on with the set program.

The point is to not bum out!!!! You have to make the aeroplane do exactly what you've decided it going do and not let it decide for you...even though the wind, your' skills and bad luck be be against you.

These programs can get far more complex as you progress.

The point is that after you've flown and progran 100 times you'll be one, two even three steps ahead of the aeroplane. This is a critical mindset.
You can start learning to do this from day one.

As stated... when you see the guys flying F3A or even a free style program at TOC they're all flying a pre set sequence thats been practiced 1000's of times.

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Aileron control visualization - 12/9/2002 6:44:59 PM   
rajul



Posts: 6220
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Missouri City, TX, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by bla bla
The point is that after you've flown and progran 100 times you'll be one, two even three steps ahead of the aeroplane. This is a critical mindset.
You can start learning to do this from day one.

As stated... when you see the guys flying F3A or even a free style program at TOC they're all flying a pre set sequence thats been practiced 1000's of times. [/QUOTE]

BlaBla, Good piece of advise...............

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Aileron control visualization - 12/9/2002 7:17:40 PM   
CHassan



Posts: 1230
Joined: 8/26/2002
From: Beavercreek, OH, USA
Status: offline 		I learned as snaught did, Watch the plane over your shoulder, left is still left right is still right, Once you get use to flying, the whole mess just seems to dissapear.

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Aileron control visualization - 12/9/2002 7:28:24 PM   
rajul



Posts: 6220
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Missouri City, TX, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by CHassan
I learned as snaught did, Watch the plane over your shoulder, left is still left right is still right, Once you get use to flying, the whole mess just seems to dissapear. [/QUOTE]

Hi chassan, this method is what professional trainers like Mike Lynch and Dave Scott seem to advocate.............

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Aileron control visualization - 12/9/2002 10:26:39 PM   
JNorton



Posts: 3134
Joined: 1/29/2002
From: Montague, MI, USA
Status: offline 		Rajul,
I learned using Real Flight. I spent the first three days wondering if I was going to be able to fly at all. Crash after crash. Then it got progressively easier. I have never been in a situation where I didn't know how to bring the airplane back under control on the flight line. I've had situations where the plane was too low to avoid a crash, but if I had had the altitude I could have saved the plane.

On the other hand Real Flight does not teach you how to land nor does it teach you spatial relationship, i.e. are you ahead of or behind a line of trees on your landing approach! Don't ask!
John

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Aileron control visualization - 12/9/2002 10:47:21 PM   
Joe B.


 

Posts: 265
Joined: 8/12/2002
From: New Port Richey, FL
Status: offline 		I learned by trial and error without any real 'system' but before you know it I no longer needed to worry about it - just sorta visualize what the plane should be doing and my fingers do a half-ass job of putting it there. If you're practicing I'd do figure 8's all day long until it's not an issue any more.

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Learning - 12/10/2002 1:06:44 AM   
captinjohn


 

Posts: 5603
Joined: 1/25/2002
From: Hesperia, MI, USA
Status: offline 		Once you get the figure 8,s down good learn to fly inverted and then inverted figure 8,s. I have taught over 20 peolple to fly RC. The last ones learned a lot faster when I explained to shove the stick towards the low wing when the plane is coming at you to level wings. And of equal or more important is not to let the control stick just pop back to center, but keep your fingers/and thumb on the stick all the time. Learn how to fly smooth and pratice placing the plane exactly where you want it to be at all times. Good Luck and Have Fun! CaptinJohn

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