How light can you go!
#3
Thread Starter
RE: How light can you go!
ORIGINAL: T. Bob
Seems like a lot of work for not much gain.
They are nice looking planes why would you strip it?
Seems like a lot of work for not much gain.
They are nice looking planes why would you strip it?
I agree, the covering job was one of the best I have seen yet, however it would have been impossible to remove the 17 ounces of fat from the fuselage without removing the covering first. I will send more pictures of the development stages.
#5
Thread Starter
RE: How light can you go!
ORIGINAL: DENNIS C
Judging by the 1 st picture.....i dont see where your going to loose 17 oz's..unless you did it already.
Does the turtle deck come off
Judging by the 1 st picture.....i dont see where your going to loose 17 oz's..unless you did it already.
Does the turtle deck come off
Note: all weight comparisons were performed after the covering had been removed from the airframe.
#7
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RE: How light can you go!
ORIGINAL: sweetpea01
Why......Hopefully your lightend bird doesn't fall apart from vibration
Why......Hopefully your lightend bird doesn't fall apart from vibration
#9
Thread Starter
RE: How light can you go!
[quote]ORIGINAL: sweetpea01
I see your point.........but there's something to structural integrity and weight.
[/quote
I couldn't agree with you more, The higher the weight, the higher the flight loads. There is an old saying that we used many years ago out at the NASA: Dryden Flight Research Facility in California, it goes something like this, "make the fittings big and engineer the hell out of the upholstery" What that means in this scenario is leave the well thought out spar carry throughs and massive longerons alone and trim the fat everywhere else, it's that simple.
I see your point.........but there's something to structural integrity and weight.
[/quote
I couldn't agree with you more, The higher the weight, the higher the flight loads. There is an old saying that we used many years ago out at the NASA: Dryden Flight Research Facility in California, it goes something like this, "make the fittings big and engineer the hell out of the upholstery" What that means in this scenario is leave the well thought out spar carry throughs and massive longerons alone and trim the fat everywhere else, it's that simple.
#10
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RE: How light can you go!
Here is a couple of weight shots of the entire aircraft with the exception of covering on the fuselage, tail feather and 5" spinner. I will still strip the wings & ailerons and place them on a strict diet.
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RE: How light can you go!
HEY SENSEI,
LOOKS LIKE YOUR DOING A GREAT JOB. ANY CHANCE WE CAN GET A DATE AND LOCATION AS TO WHERE YOU MIGHT BE FLYING THAT 70% IN THE BACKGROUND AT.
MIKE
LOOKS LIKE YOUR DOING A GREAT JOB. ANY CHANCE WE CAN GET A DATE AND LOCATION AS TO WHERE YOU MIGHT BE FLYING THAT 70% IN THE BACKGROUND AT.
MIKE
#12
Thread Starter
RE: How light can you go!
ORIGINAL: 40%plane
HEY SENSEI,
LOOKS LIKE YOUR DOING A GREAT JOB. ANY CHANCE WE CAN GET A DATE AND LOCATION AS TO WHERE YOU MIGHT BE FLYING THAT 70% IN THE BACKGROUND AT.
MIKE
HEY SENSEI,
LOOKS LIKE YOUR DOING A GREAT JOB. ANY CHANCE WE CAN GET A DATE AND LOCATION AS TO WHERE YOU MIGHT BE FLYING THAT 70% IN THE BACKGROUND AT.
MIKE
Sincerely
Bob Sawyer
#14
Thread Starter
RE: How light can you go!
Well, looks like the only way to get that 16 ozs. off the wings is, you got it, 1 lb. density foam cores and competition grade balsa skins, anyways, here we go.[X(]
#16
Thread Starter
RE: How light can you go!
Hello T.bob,
No, I'm not kidding, the target weight for this project is not to exceed a completed dry weight of 13.5 lbs. I figure if your going to step up to the plate; then swing for the fence. The last project was a 1/3 scale Lanier Laser kit 96" span, Finished dry weight was 15.5 lbs with a DA 50cc with stock muffler, The flight characteristics...... well ever flown a shock flyer?
No, I'm not kidding, the target weight for this project is not to exceed a completed dry weight of 13.5 lbs. I figure if your going to step up to the plate; then swing for the fence. The last project was a 1/3 scale Lanier Laser kit 96" span, Finished dry weight was 15.5 lbs with a DA 50cc with stock muffler, The flight characteristics...... well ever flown a shock flyer?
#17
RE: How light can you go!
Very impressive!
Of course, this whole thing does require some serious time commitment (possibly beating the ARF mentality). Naaah, what the heck, I'm jealous - I admit it.
Go for it and let us know. I have done some of the lightening mods myself (I think you've followed the other thread) and its close to 17-17.5lbs (I'll know exactly as soon as I get a decent 30lbs scale). Have you noticed any rigidity issues by removing the wood of the fuz (i.e does the rear fuz flex now withoutthe backbone plate..)?
Of course, this whole thing does require some serious time commitment (possibly beating the ARF mentality). Naaah, what the heck, I'm jealous - I admit it.
Go for it and let us know. I have done some of the lightening mods myself (I think you've followed the other thread) and its close to 17-17.5lbs (I'll know exactly as soon as I get a decent 30lbs scale). Have you noticed any rigidity issues by removing the wood of the fuz (i.e does the rear fuz flex now withoutthe backbone plate..)?
#19
Thread Starter
RE: How light can you go!
ORIGINAL: hpergm
Very impressive!
Of course, this whole thing does require some serious time commitment (possibly beating the ARF mentality). Naaah, what the heck, I'm jealous - I admit it.
Go for it and let us know. I have done some of the lightening mods myself (I think you've followed the other thread) and its close to 17-17.5lbs (I'll know exactly as soon as I get a decent 30lbs scale). Have you noticed any rigidity issues by removing the wood of the fuz (i.e does the rear fuz flex now withoutthe backbone plate..)?
Very impressive!
Of course, this whole thing does require some serious time commitment (possibly beating the ARF mentality). Naaah, what the heck, I'm jealous - I admit it.
Go for it and let us know. I have done some of the lightening mods myself (I think you've followed the other thread) and its close to 17-17.5lbs (I'll know exactly as soon as I get a decent 30lbs scale). Have you noticed any rigidity issues by removing the wood of the fuz (i.e does the rear fuz flex now withoutthe backbone plate..)?
Thank you for the complement. When I removed the turtle deck to get to the plate, it became very flexible, but that was to be expected, I have seen this many times. Once the turtle deck was bonded back in place, the rigidity was completely back in-tacked, and when the covering is replaced it will only get more rigid.
#20
Thread Starter
RE: How light can you go!
ORIGINAL: T. Bob
sensei
May be you should take up scratch building.
I think it would be less time and aggravation.
sensei
May be you should take up scratch building.
I think it would be less time and aggravation.
Scratch building, been there done that many long years ago, and this is a "HOBBY", it really doesn't matter to me how long it takes as long as I reach my objective, and if this hobby aggravated me; I would probable take to a different hobby. The only thing I was disappointed about was I could not find a 50cc Yak that was not an ARF; when in-fact I wanted a kit. Now don't get me wrong I like ARFs as well as anyone and I know from a business stand point it would cost nearly as much or more to produce a kit that would have to be sold for less because it's not an ARF. However, it just would have been more fun to build from a kit.
#21
RE: How light can you go!
Sensei, how about the tail feathers (rigidity wise)?
4oz losses seem a lot, and if true I will order a spare set of stabs and do the same. Weight reduction will then be even more, since I may be able to ditch the metal spinner and go with a CF (which I have but cannot achieve balance with[>:]).
4oz losses seem a lot, and if true I will order a spare set of stabs and do the same. Weight reduction will then be even more, since I may be able to ditch the metal spinner and go with a CF (which I have but cannot achieve balance with[>:]).
#23
Thread Starter
RE: How light can you go!
ORIGINAL: hpergm
Sensei, how about the tail feathers (rigidity wise)?
4oz losses seem a lot, and if true I will order a spare set of stabs and do the same. Weight reduction will then be even more, since I may be able to ditch the metal spinner and go with a CF (which I have but cannot achieve balance with[>:]).
Sensei, how about the tail feathers (rigidity wise)?
4oz losses seem a lot, and if true I will order a spare set of stabs and do the same. Weight reduction will then be even more, since I may be able to ditch the metal spinner and go with a CF (which I have but cannot achieve balance with[>:]).
Well, I started by placing small penetrations in the tail feathers, this was so I could gage the 50% of desired skin thickness removal by using a 16" sanding block fitted with #80 grit sand paper. Next I did a layout and skeleton operation to the control surfaces only. NOTE: I did thin the stabilizers, but I would not recommend placing any penetrations in these items. Next I replace the horizontal aluminum anti rotation pin with a .250" carbon tube permanently glued into the fuse, the weight saving on the tube was over half a ounce alone. The control surfaces became fairly flexible when this operation was completed and once again when the covering is replaced, the rigidity will be back in-tacked. Here are a couple of pictures, one the new battery and regulator location compared to stock. This configuration is for proper C/G purposes, the new location added 10 grams to the structure and doubles as a shear web across the top of the longerons. The other picture is of the carbon tube modification.
PS: There is also one picture of the new wing progress, I should have more to show by next week.
#24
Thread Starter
RE: How light can you go!
Here are a couple more pictures of the new wing construction with the cores fully cut and the phenolic tube sockets installed. The current weight per wing half is 6.7 ozs. I still need to perform additional weight reduction on these cores prior to sheeting the wings, I should be able to get that completed this week, and maybe get them sheeted this coming weekend.
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RE: How light can you go!
This is great info here sensei. how did you cut the hole in the core for the wing tube.
Are you going to post picture's on how your going to lighten the foam core's also ?
Are you going to post picture's on how your going to lighten the foam core's also ?