Why (an Enya 11 CX D) Diesel? (Full Version)

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efish -> Why (an Enya 11 CX D) Diesel? (3/20/2006 12:56 PM)

Hi, I saw an Enya 11 CXD in my LHS and am tempted to add it to my collection. But I have a few concerns and questions. I have no experience with diesels (and all the LHSs seem to be clueless) but I fly glow powered models (mostly 1/2A size).

First, on diesels generally, I've gone through a few other posts, and it seems the main advantage is that they produce a little more torque at lower rpms. The price of that seems to be an uncertain and costly fuel supply.

Have I got that basically right?

Second, on the 11 CX D - is this a good engine? I know the glow powered Enyas have a near cult following (I've got 2 myself), but have no idea about their diesel engines. They certainly cost quite a bit more than other makes. The engine is a ball raced CX engine, so I'm guessing its got a G carb but it seems that it's not schnuerle ported so I'm thinking that it'll have a relatively low power to weight compared to more modern glow equivalents. As a worst case, I'm guessing that if I can't get diesel fuel, I'd just buy the glow head and convert it to run on glow.

Alternatively, I was thinking of purchasing a Davis Diesel Conversion head for an OS .10 LA and/or a Norvel 0.061 (I presently run glow versions of both). Would anyone care to share their experiences with either or both of these conversions?

Thanks.



Hobbsy -> RE: Why (an Enya 11 CX D) Diesel? (3/20/2006 5:22 PM)

E, dieseldan and I each have the Enya .25D, they recommend huge props for it 12x5 and 12x6 I think. We both have numbers somewhere in this Forum, I'll find then. He has the .11D also so he'll jump right in here.



efish -> RE: Why (an Enya 11 CX D) Diesel? (3/20/2006 7:40 PM)

Thanks, torque wrench. Any info would be very much appreciated. Compared to when I started with glow engines, there seems to be scant little info available on diesel powerplants.

The 11 CX D just seems to be the perfect powerplant for a warbird I've been thinking of building. Just saw it sitting sadly in the LHS crying out to find a new home.

Must confess that I'm starting to think the whole diesel thing is looking like a novelty exercise for me! I'm still trying out how to beg borrow or steal some diesel fuel or at least the ingredients for me to mix the same. Well, I guess even if I quit using it after a few months, at least I've tried my hand at diesel and would have gained an experience instead of just blindly regurgitating what "everyone else" has said (something the local LHSs seem to be very good at).

On the diesel conversion heads, I read a rather dated smallnet post that provided a rather dim review of their usability. In particular, the cox 0.049 head had durability issues relating to their use of an apparently flimsy plastic "diaphram". Any comment?



Hobbsy -> RE: Why (an Enya 11 CX D) Diesel? (3/20/2006 8:17 PM)

E, I have about 12 Davis conversion heads and about 4 made by AJC and they all work very well. I would not consider the .049 a viable Diesel although I understand they do work, I don't think it would have enough power to make a pony motor for most of mine.



SGC -> RE: Why (an Enya 11 CX D) Diesel? (3/20/2006 9:56 PM)

The RJL Cox diesel head doesnt use a diaphram, that said it fits on the Norvel 049-061 motors that do work well as diesels
Stewart



AMB -> RE: Why (an Enya 11 CX D) Diesel? (3/21/2006 2:46 AM)

Efish Enya does have a cult following and for a very good reason, they are one of the best made engines out there, the CX11D is twin BB, excellent carb easily hand starts very very smooth runner it is a set and forget setup too, I have the CX11D and 25D, yes they are
more money but will far outlast the inexpensive motors, Off the subject a bit but have their 40 4Stk open rocker glow at an idle all you hear is the prop wind noise and a little putt putt sound and quite quiet at open throttle no muffler just a short stack You will have no problem with the Enya as a first diesel. PAWs are great engines also but with the modern design of the Enya great carb and BB go for it
I do Have PAWs and no issues except their very dated carbs which however do work ok but tend to load up the engine at idle martin



Jim Thomerson -> RE: Why (an Enya 11 CX D) Diesel? (3/21/2006 7:37 AM)

I had a CX 11 D go though my hands. I had to free up the contrapiston as it was too tight (better that than too loose.) Frankly the example I had did not handle well and was an over weight underpowered dog. It is a beautiful engine and I had high hopes for it. Mine compared pretty well with an old McCoy 09 diesel for power. As I said, it passed though my hands. I definitely would not recommend the one I had for a first diesel.



NM2K -> RE: Why (an Enya 11 CX D) Diesel? (3/21/2006 7:43 AM)

There is the original Enya .11 CX, which is an absolute little screaming monster of a glow engine, but very, very expensive. It most definitely is schneurle ported. They were popular for use in small ducted fan models in the mid eighties.

I have no experience with the Diesel version, but I can't imagine it being weak in any way.



NM2K -> RE: Why (an Enya 11 CX D) Diesel? (3/21/2006 8:00 AM)

Well, there you go. Maybe an engine tuned to scream doesn't make such a great Diesel engine?



AMB -> RE: Why (an Enya 11 CX D) Diesel? (3/21/2006 8:45 AM)

Jim >>surprised you had problems with yours compared to my OS10 davis head ran about the same the FP10 which however needs a windup with my electric starter, and yes the contra was quite tight in my enya also< When I first started it it was overcompressed
loosened the compression sxrew off the contra a bit and it did bang up against while running then turned it down again atad for smooth running. I forgot one in that class, and thats the ASP12 diesel conversion from just engines that is all one could ask for in an easy to start smooth runner, also a lot less than an Enya time will tell how long it will hold up but the ASP line has a good reputation it is is retag
of magnum and SCs , It runs as well as the Enya also hand starts and less than half the price BUT being a member of the Enya cult
not sorry I bought it, shines like a jewel too

I was considering an Enya 50 for a conversion but with all my irvines 53s and 46 conversion and others in the 40 to 60 class engines
really cannot qualify it I would sooner put the money in a plane my ratio of engines to planes right now is about 2:1 martin




efish -> RE: Why (an Enya 11 CX D) Diesel? (3/21/2006 9:55 AM)

Thanks everyone, very useful information all round.

Right now, my priority is running down leads on where to get diesel fuel. Seems there is no commercially available stuff to be bought locally. Got a tip off that some 'odd balls' have been mixing their own and may be willing to sell/ or barter off a supply. Trying to get my LHS to broker the deal.

Got my fingers crossed.... if it works out, think I'll get both the enya and a conversion head for one of my 0.061. The low noise and high low rpm torque are definitely big draws for me. Recently, I've gotten into flying slower smaller planes nearer residential areas. Wouldn't want any of my neighbours to be unhappy with me!



fiery -> RE: Why (an Enya 11 CX D) Diesel? (7/25/2010 2:26 PM)

Put the little Enya Ultra 11 CXD through it's paces on the test stand today. I acquired the engine pre-loved, but while the previous owner had run it, I had never run it before.

I went to run it last week, but as I was setting up, it's carby fuel inlet nipple fell off as I pulled off the tygon tubing to fuel up. I was less than thrilled. I put it aside and ran another engine.

Later on the workbench at home, the fuel nipple (a press fitting into the carb ?) was cleaned with Baker's fluid and pushed back into place. A nice fillet of solder was laid around it. Much better. Air tight too.

At the field, after sorting a minor fuel tank issue (resulting in me installing a Sullivan "gas" bung into the tank, in place of the rapidly deteriorating standard bung), we were away.

I open the rotor to full throttle. Main needle is opened to 2 1/2 turns, as per the instructions. I adjust the tank height to ensure fuel surface level in the tank was approximately the same as the spraybar in the carb. It would not hold fuel in the line otherwise. Such is life, if the tank is low ... gravity always wins.

After priming and vigourous flipping we had a few pops ... but it would not catch. Feels flooded. Hmmmm. Wind in needle and flick and slowly increase compression (in total about 1/2 a turn) until the wee beast fired and ran out the fuel load in the crankcase. 3 to 4 second run ... good.

Open needle to 1 and 1/2 turns, choke carb with finger for two turns of the prop, and I flick in earnest. I sense it wants to go, so I hit it with the starter, and it catches immediately.

It runs slowly, rich, and undercompressed. Wind in needle to 1 and 1/3 turns open - and increase compression another 1/4 turn - and it sings a lusty song.

This all takes 30 minutes or so. It throttles fine with the carb idle air-bleed screw 1/3 of the way into the air-bleed hole (as I set it up at start - I did not adjust it during running).

As for the rest, the photo's tell the story

Details

Engine: Enya Ultra 11 CXD with R/C carb and stock silencer fiited, no tank pressure.

Fuel: 35% Ether, 2.5% IPN, 20% Castor oil, balance lighting Kerosene (KCB light blue)

Temperature: 16 degrees Centigrade

Elevation: 300 Metres AMSL (approx)

Barometer/ humidity: Not known

Lowest safe idle: 3,200 rpm, but held mid 2000's for some time. At this rpm the carb opening is less than .5 mm. A pin wide crescent.

Max RPM (carb rotor fully open): Steady 10,800; peaking at 11,000

Propeller: Bolly Clubman 8.5 x 6

All in all a fine peformance. I did not attempt to optimise idle setting (air bleed screw).



AMB -> RE: Why (an Enya 11 CX D) Diesel? (7/26/2010 3:10 AM)

Derek Just saw your run on the Enya CX11D . Like your insulators on the Tommy bar ( an other case of why didn't I think of that?) They do get a bit "warm" after engine running grabbing that hot bare metal. Just a bit of fuel tubing on each side of the bar much more comfortable to adjust martin

When I zoomed the pix I saw it



steve111 -> RE: Why (an Enya 11 CX D) Diesel? (7/26/2010 3:45 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: efish


Alternatively, I was thinking of purchasing a Davis Diesel Conversion head for an OS .10 LA and/or a Norvel 0.061 (I presently run glow versions of both). Would anyone care to share their experiences with either or both of these conversions?

Thanks.



I've messed about with a Davis conversion of the Norvel 061, and wouldn't really recommend it. It was hard to start (whereas they start pretty much instantly as a glow motor), well down on usable power, and destroyed the little aluminium diaphragms in the head on a pretty regular basis. This isn't a reflection on the Davis product, as I've only heard good things about any of their other conversions - I just feel that the Norvel doesn't make a great subject for diesel conversion. Better to leave it turning 22000+ on a smallish prop!

Steve



gmedson -> RE: Why (an Enya 11 CX D) Diesel? (7/26/2010 5:50 AM)

Thanks Fiery - This is a really cute engine! Once you got the mixture and compression settings sorted out, how easily did it hand start? Hot starts and cold starts? I once read some comments on the Internet that suggested that this wee engine does not start easily without an electric starter.

I shall use the fuel tubing insulators on my compression adjusters now.

Regards. -Gary



AMB -> RE: Why (an Enya 11 CX D) Diesel? (7/26/2010 6:29 AM)

Steve 111 Note my numbers on the coxes 049 posted on 4/23 (page 3) I am just using the teflon disc no aluminum, On the Norvel every engine has its quirks not a cox
and the issue may not be typical. Being a Pharmacist we know in medication results vary by patient. martin



johnvb-RCU -> RE: Why (an Enya 11 CX D) Diesel? (7/26/2010 6:31 AM)

Oh dear, there's one on the *bay at the moment: http://cgi.ebay.com/MODEL-DIESEL-ENGINE-ENYA-11-CX-DS-2cc-DIESEL-NEW-/140431773373?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item20b262cebd



AMB -> RE: Why (an Enya 11 CX D) Diesel? (7/26/2010 6:40 AM)

Johnvb RCU Oh Oh - looks like an other incurable case of DAS) diesel addiction syndrome martin



DeviousDave -> RE: Why (an Enya 11 CX D) Diesel? (7/26/2010 6:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: NM2K

Well, there you go. Maybe an engine tuned to scream doesn't make such a great Diesel engine?



Well, it sure won't if it has a standard (large compared to glow equivalent) prop bolted to the front of it. Some diesel engines are tuned for really high RPM power-I don't know what the CX-D is like, but if it's like an MVVS .15 or a MP Jet .061 BB, they are timed to run on small props.

As for the original question, one of the main attractions to an engine like these is the ability to choose from a wide variety of props. When you get down into the size range we are talking about 6,7, 8" prop efficiency can sometimes be more important that peak HP, and airframe design can dictate small props.

Not every Diesel is meant to develop tons of thrust at the expense of pitch speed...



DeviousDave -> RE: Why (an Enya 11 CX D) Diesel? (7/26/2010 7:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: fiery

Put the little Enya Ultra 11 CXD through it's paces on the test stand today. I acquired the engine pre-loved, but while the previous owner had run it, I had never run it before.

I went to run it last week, but as I was setting up, it's carby fuel inlet nipple fell off as I pulled of the tygon tubing. I was less than thrilled. I put it aside and ran another engine.

Later on the workbench at home, the fuel nipple (a press fitting in to the carb ?) was cleaned with Baker's fluid and pushed back into place. A nice fillet of solder was laid around it. Much better. Air tight too.

At the field, after sorting a minor fuel tank issue (installing a Sullivan ''gas'' bung into the tank, in place of the rapidly dissolving standard bung) we were away.

I open the rotor to full throttle. I open the main needle 2 1/2 turns, as per the instructions. I adjusted tank height to ensure fuel level in the tank was approximately the same as the spraybar in the carb. It would not hold fuel in the line otherwise. Such is life, if tank is low ... gravity always wins.

After priming and vigourous flipping we had a few pops ... but it would not catch. Feels flooded. Hmmmm. Wind in needle and flick and slowly increase compression (in total about 1/2 a turn) until the wee beast fired and ran out the fuel load in the crankcase. 3 to 4 second run ... good.

Open needle 1 and 1/2 a turns, Choke carb with finger for two turns and I flick in earnest. I sense it wants to go, so I hit it with the starter, and it catches immediately.

It runs slowly, rich, and undercompressed. Wind in needle to 1 1/3 turns open - and increase compression another 1/4 turn - and it sings a lusty song.

This all takes 30 minutes or so. It throttles fine with idle air-bleed screw 1/3 of the way into the air-bleed hole (as I set it up at start - I did not adjust it during running).

As for the rest, the photo's tell the story

Details

Engine: Enya Ultra 11 CXD with R/C carb and stock silencer fiited, no tank pressure.

Fuel: 35% Ether, 2.5% IPN, 20% Castor oil, balance lighting Kerosene (KCB light blue)

Temperature: 16 degrees Centigrade

Elevation: 300 Metres AMSL (approx)

Barometer/ humidity: Not known

Lowest safe idle: 3,200 rpm, but held mid 2000's for some time. At this rpm the carb opening is less than .5 mm. A pin wide crescent.

Max RPM (carb rotor fully open: Steady 10,800; peaking at 11,000

Propeller: Bolly Clubman 8.5 x 6

All in all a fine peformance. I did not attempt to optimise idle setting (air bleed screw).


Put a 6-6 prop on it and report back...... [:D]



R/C Phile -> RE: Why (an Enya 11 CX D) Diesel? (1/20/2011 8:37 PM)

Too much prop in my opinion too, if you're going for thrust and not speed, an MAS 8 X 3 "Combat" or MAS 8 X 4 would get that puppy back in it's power band (above 15,000 RPM)



fiery -> RE: Why (an Enya 11 CX D) Diesel? (1/21/2011 1:43 AM)

So it has a home when not in use I emailed the ENYA factory. After a PayPal deposit I now have a pristine U11CXD box and original instruction sheet.

Great service from Mr Ken Enya for this engine.

I use small diesels to swing lumber, not a toothpick. That's what gl*ws are for.

I use an MA 8 x 3 on my MPJet .040 !!




DeviousDave -> RE: Why (an Enya 11 CX D) Diesel? (1/21/2011 7:08 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: NM2K

There is the original Enya .11 CX, which is an absolute little screaming monster of a glow engine, but very, very expensive. It most definitely is schneurle ported. They were popular for use in small ducted fan models in the mid eighties.

I have no experience with the Diesel version, but I can't imagine it being weak in any way.


I'll bet it is a weak engine if you are an "Olde School" modeller and put a big hunk of lumber on it expecting it will spin faster than other engines of it's size range....

The .11CXD is a fast timed engine like the MVVS .15. People don't realize these were racing engines that mostly saw use in ducted fans!



DeviousDave -> RE: Why (an Enya 11 CX D) Diesel? (1/21/2011 7:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: R/C Phile

Too much prop in my opinion too, if you're going for thrust and not speed, an MAS 8 X 3 ''Combat'' or MAS 8 X 4 would get that puppy back in it's power band (above 15,000 RPM)



If thrust were the main objective, wouldn't it make more sense to use a milder engine that works better at lower RPM?



greggles47 -> RE: Why (an Enya 11 CX D) Diesel? (1/21/2011 9:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: efish

Thanks everyone, very useful information all round.

Right now, my priority is running down leads on where to get diesel fuel. Seems there is no commercially available stuff to be bought locally. Got a tip off that some 'odd balls' have been mixing their own and may be willing to sell/ or barter off a supply. Trying to get my LHS to broker the deal.

Got my fingers crossed.... if it works out, think I'll get both the enya and a conversion head for one of my 0.061. The low noise and high low rpm torque are definitely big draws for me. Recently, I've gotten into flying slower smaller planes nearer residential areas. Wouldn't want any of my neighbours to be unhappy with me!


G'day efish,

The "Odd Balls" you mention may be control line team race flyers. To most TR flyers, fuel mixing is pretty easy. It is possibly your best chance of tracking down that all ellusive fuel. I know there is a pocket of TR interest in Singapore - it's worth you investigating the local clubs to try to track them down.

On Enyas I have a couple of them and generally a high quality product, backed up well by spares direct from Ken Enya. One of mine is an 11CX glow, which goes very well. I have no direct info about the later diesel version, but Fiery's very complete description would convince me if I still needed to be.



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