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RE: WACO YMF - 7/15/2012 5:23 AM   
rccrasher65


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder

George, put in lightening holes in the formers (look back at photos of mine) and lighten the ribs. Build a balance beam and pair up the ribs as well. Light flys best.

Bill, Waco Brother #1

Bill, can you remember what post your pic were on. My ribs are cut from 3/32 balsa, not the 5/32. I will put 2- 1/2 inch holes in them as well. I can cut 3/4 or 1" holes in the formers. All remaining parts were cut from the 5/32 balsa. I don't know how much lighter I can get, any suggestions, please do tell,open to all suggestions. George

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/15/2012 11:56 AM   
Stickbuilder



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quote:

ORIGINAL: rccrasher65


Bill, can you remember what post your pic were on. My ribs are cut from 3/32 balsa, not the 5/32. I will put 2- 1/2 inch holes in them as well. I can cut 3/4 or 1'' holes in the formers. All remaining parts were cut from the 5/32 balsa. I don't know how much lighter I can get, any suggestions, please do tell,open to all suggestions. George


Back in the spring of 2007 or thereabout.

Bill, Waco Brother #1

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Its easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesnt look like an airplane.

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/15/2012 5:39 PM   
rccrasher65


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks Bill I'll find them. George

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/17/2012 11:00 AM   
Stickbuilder



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Status: offline 		The trick is to lighten things up without sacrificing strength. You can actually increase the surface area of a part by cutting lightening holes in it.

Bill, Waco Brother #1

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Its easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesnt look like an airplane.

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/17/2012 6:09 PM   
rccrasher65


 

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ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder

The trick is to lighten things up without sacrificing strength. You can actually increase the surface area of a part by cutting lightening holes in it.

Bill, Waco Brother #1

Bill, I found your pics and started to cut my lightning holes, The registry on page one will take you basically to any subject you want , fuse const or wing tips ect.  Vey helpful, answered all questions for now. I want to do the adjustable stab  also. scale wing tips. Did you go with the setup in your fuse pics for the tail wheel? There are many options, just want to keep it simple and functionable. Thanks for your help. George

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/17/2012 6:31 PM   
Dash7ATP



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Status: offline 		Hi WACO Brotherhood,

I'm plugging along on my 1/5 Pica kit and I'm maybe 2/3 finished with the basic structure.  I have the tail feathers finished, the bottom wing completed and the fuselage about 85% finished. I'm beginning to look ahead to the covering and finishing stages. I looked at Khodges posts on covering with Koverall and noticed he also mentioned Solartex.. A friend of mine just finished up a 1/4 scale SE-5 and covered it with Solartex. He really likes it and even sent me a sample of the stuff. I was prepared to go with Koverall and have already bought a package along with the Balsarite for fabric.  For what it's worth, the Koverall mics at .003" and the Solartex was .004", so Koverall should be lighter.

I have been covering planes since back in the days of silkspan and dope. I did one large model with 21st Century prepainted Coverite and liked it, but it was HEAVY!  What is the over consensus here on the best material for this model? I assume almost all non-prepainted fabrics require a few coats of Nitrate dope?  yes or no?  How about the priming (if neccessary) and final color coats.  I like KlassKote for my glassed models and was wondering how it holds up on a fabric model.  Would it crack after time?  Would you still need a silver base coat to block the UV?  Lots of questions! Sorry. I know a lot of guys are now using a water based finish which is low in odor. Comments on this?  Would the water based finishes take an automotive type clear coat?   A good subject too persue to get a good cross section on the different finishes in use.

Thanks, guys.

Joe

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/17/2012 7:12 PM   
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Status: offline 		Stickbuilder.................this thread grew quite a bit since i visited it last. My question is : I have a Pica YMF 3/6 Waco 1:6 th. scale, i'm in need of a back up fibreglass Cowl. Can someone tell me where i can purchase one please. Thanks

Charles.


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RE: WACO YMF - 7/17/2012 10:25 PM   
rccrasher65


 

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Status: offline 		Charles try Fiberteck n more or Fiberglass specialties.

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/17/2012 10:43 PM   
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Status: offline 		Dash, FWIW, my two Koverall covered models use: Waco, Solarlac (Fuselage) and Ally dope (Cellulose paint) on the wings, all sealed with plasticised two pot (epoxy) clear. Ten years old now and the Solarlac has sun faded, but no paint crazing. Koverall was sealed with about 6 coats of sprayed nitrate dope. The Seimens has been finished with water based house paint (test pots) with two pot flattened and plasticised clear, over about three coats of brushed nitrate dope. This finish is too new to make any longevity claims, but there was no finish interaction, and nothing has cracked, crazed of loosened, yet. The Pfalz is a bit over twenty years old, but it is nylon acetate covered, with cellulose spray paint over the doped fabric. It got a rattle can clear spray ('eggshell' type semi-gloss) which has worn some in the oily/scrubbed places.
Evan, WB #12.

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/17/2012 11:04 PM   
Dash7ATP



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quote:

ORIGINAL: pimmnz

Dash, FWIW, my two Koverall covered models use: Waco, Solarlac (Fuselage) and Ally dope (Cellulose paint) on the wings, all sealed with plasticised two pot (epoxy) clear. Ten years old now and the Solarlac has sun faded, but no paint crazing. Koverall was sealed with about 6 coats of sprayed nitrate dope. The Seimens has been finished with water based house paint (test pots) with two pot flattened and plasticised clear, over about three coats of brushed nitrate dope. This finish is too new to make any longevity claims, but there was no finish interaction, and nothing has cracked, crazed of loosened, yet. The Pfalz is a bit over twenty years old, but it is nylon acetate covered, with cellulose spray paint over the doped fabric. It got a rattle can clear spray ('eggshell' type semi-gloss) which has worn some in the oily/scrubbed places.
Evan, WB #12.


Pimmnz,

Thanks for your comments. I hope to get many more, but it sounds like you are quite satisfied with the Koverall.  You guys have different product names in NZ as I have never heard of Solarlac or Ally dope. I assume that is a trade name. I didn't realize that dope was a cellulose paint. Is that both nitrate and butyrate dope? 

Joe

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/17/2012 11:41 PM   
acerc



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Joe, I don't know if you recall my paint job so I will post it. I used Koverall  and stits paint system. My next one will get polyfiber from Aircraftspruce, wider rolls and tighter weave. If I recall correctly the paint job only added a few ounces to the airframe. The maiden on it was one year ago, 7/ 21/2011, and it still look's as good as the day I sprayed it. And I let it set in the sun when I'm at the field.
Love my Waco!




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RE: WACO YMF - 7/18/2012 12:16 AM   
Dash7ATP



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ORIGINAL: acerc

Joe, I don't know if you recall my paint job so I will post it. I used Koverall  and stits paint system. My next one will get polyfiber from Aircraftspruce, wider rolls and tighter weave. If I recall correctly the paint job only added a few ounces to the airframe. The maiden on it was one year ago, 7/ 21/2011, and it still look's as good as the day I sprayed it. And I let it set in the sun when I'm at the field.
Love my Waco!




Acerc,

No, I'm afraid I don't remember your model. I have probably seen it on here as I have looked extensively for information.  It's hard to believe any fabric could have a much tighter weave than the Koverall. It looks pretty tight!

Is the Stits system water based. I could look it up, but right now, I feel lazy.    Since my wife is very odor sensitive, and I mean VERY, I'm looking for a good low odor product that has a nice shine or can be clear coated.  Thanks for your reply,

Joe



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RE: WACO YMF - 7/18/2012 12:16 AM   
Stickbuilder



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Status: offline 		Joe,

I have been using Koverall for years, and have finished it with both automotive finishes, as well as with Nitrate dope with a Butyrate finish. My doped finishes will last in the 20 year neighborhood before it begins to crack and blister. The automotive finishes are on par with the Lacquer. The Cessna 195 was glassed and then finished with Klass Kote. The finish is 4 years old and looks great. I plan to cover the current construction Waco with Solartex. I think it will be a little lighter than all the coats of dope and auto paint. The Quarter Scale Ryan will get Klass Kote as well.

Bill, Waco Brother #1

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/18/2012 12:32 AM   
acerc



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Status: offline 		No Joe the stits is not water based or lacking of strong odor. My next suggestion would to be Latex, water soluable and virtually no odor.
But I still rec. the Aircraftspruce's polyfiber. It does have a much tighter weave. Easier to fill.
Good luck my friend!


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RE: WACO YMF - 7/18/2012 1:09 AM   
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Status: offline 		Dash, Solarlac is Solarfilm's paint to match and be painted on Solarfilm films. The Ally paint is ...aluminium based cellulose lacquer, trade name Duco. Nitrate and Butyrate dopes are simply different cellulose type bases, they do basically the same thing. All are probably from aircraft stocks, the stuff we have here is likely re-packaged Randolph dopes.
Evan, WB #12.

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/18/2012 1:25 AM   
rccrasher65


 

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Status: offline 		Robert, Hi long time since we had the pleasure of talking. I have a questiion for you. You did mention you used a thicker landing gear piano wire. what size did you use for your landing gear. Was it thicker than 5/32? George


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RE: WACO YMF - 7/18/2012 1:46 AM   
acerc



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Status: offline 		Hi George. Yes it has been a while. The new wire for the main's are 7/32. 1/8 for the rest. So far it has not budged.


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RE: WACO YMF - 7/18/2012 1:56 AM   
rccrasher65


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks Robert, George

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/18/2012 2:25 AM   
acerc



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RE: WACO YMF - 7/18/2012 3:13 AM   
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Status: offline 		Hi guys! Thaks to all who ersponded to my request on fabrics and paints. More opionions are still welcome.

Bill:regarding your finishes, I'm very familiar with KlasKote epoxies. Will this product cover and hold well to the nitrate used to tighten the fabrics?  I like their primer - almost as good as the old K & B. If I stay with dope, Butyrate over Nitrate, approximately how much paint does it take to get a nice finish?

Primmnz, I just checked the Aircraft Spruce site and the Randolph dopes. It's hard to beat a doped finish, but the epoxys are very good. 

Robert: A lot of friend of mine have used the latex water based paints, but they were all satin finishes on old warbirds. Can one get a glossy finish using latex?


This one for everyone. It seems I read about one of the brothers having a similar problem. I was doing some checking this afternoon on alignments and got a small shock.  My fuselage crutch ( and apparently the whold model) is not level with the table, apparently due to the gear not being mounted level. I needed to place about a 3/8 inch block under the right gear to get close to level.  I already have the forward sheeting completed and the thought of tearing this all out kills me.  Any suggestions?  Different wheel sizes was mentioned in the previous situation, but I don't remember the final outcome.  HELP?

Thanks again folks for your valuable imput.

Joe

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/18/2012 3:40 AM   
airplanegeek


 

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Status: offline 		i had the same issue and was pulling my hair out. This model has such a narrow wheel base that almost any misalignment makes a HUGE difference in the heights of the wing tips when it is sitting on level ground. I would venture to say that mine was at least as bad as yours. What I did... bend the main forward gear wire a little hear and a little there. Remember. A small adjustment makes a huge difference. When happy then solder the back gear wire to the forward. The difference in angles is completely unnoticed on mine and the tips are perfectly matched when sitting on the level floor.

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/18/2012 4:43 AM   
mrdhud



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dash7ATP

Hi guys! Thaks to all who ersponded to my request on fabrics and paints. More opionions are still welcome.

Bill:regarding your finishes, I'm very familiar with KlasKote epoxies. Will this product cover and hold well to the nitrate used to tighten the fabrics?  I like their primer - almost as good as the old K & B. If I stay with dope, Butyrate over Nitrate, approximately how much paint does it take to get a nice finish?

Primmnz, I just checked the Aircraft Spruce site and the Randolph dopes. It's hard to beat a doped finish, but the epoxys are very good. 

Robert: A lot of friend of mine have used the latex water based paints, but they were all satin finishes on old warbirds. Can one get a glossy finish using latex?


This one for everyone. It seems I read about one of the brothers having a similar problem. I was doing some checking this afternoon on alignments and got a small shock.  My fuselage crutch ( and apparently the whold model) is not level with the table, apparently due to the gear not being mounted level. I needed to place about a 3/8 inch block under the right gear to get close to level.  I already have the forward sheeting completed and the thought of tearing this all out kills me.  Any suggestions?  Different wheel sizes was mentioned in the previous situation, but I don't remember the final outcome.  HELP?

Thanks again folks for your valuable imput.

Joe

Joe,
I had the same problem with my gear I heated it and re bent the wire but was not happy with the way it looked and ended up ripping it out. I’m having an aluminum gear made up.

On the covering I used the silver solartex and loved it the silver is a bit higher priced but the weave is so tight no primer is necessary. If you PM me your address I’ll mail you a small piece to look at.


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RE: WACO YMF - 7/18/2012 4:47 AM   
Dash7ATP



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ORIGINAL: airplanegeek

i had the same issue and was pulling my hair out. This model has such a narrow wheel base that almost any misalignment makes a HUGE difference in the heights of the wing tips when it is sitting on level ground. I would venture to say that mine was at least as bad as yours. What I did... bend the main forward gear wire a little hear and a little there. Remember. A small adjustment makes a huge difference. When happy then solder the back gear wire to the forward. The difference in angles is completely unnoticed on mine and the tips are perfectly matched when sitting on the level floor.


Airplanegeek,

I'm sure it was your earlier problem I had remembered. I have already soldered the rear wire to the main but it an be undone. Much easier than going into the fuselage and attempting to change the gear mount. Thanks for the idea!

For any future builders of this kit, here is my suggestion.  Since this plane requires the gear mounting blocks to be glued in as one of the first steps (and they are in the way for the rest of the build #%@*+*#), try this. Temperarily mount the front gear wire and block where you think it should go. Then, check the axeles and the top of the former to see that they are parallel. Correct any errors and proceed. The fuselage crutch is the key to the entire model being true, so don't cut any corners here.

Joe

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/18/2012 11:23 AM   
Garthwood


 

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ORIGINAL: rccrasher65

Charles try Fiberteck n more or Fiberglass specialties.

I'll check them out, thanks.


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RE: WACO YMF - 7/18/2012 12:59 PM   
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Status: offline 		Joe,
I use latex alot on my planes. I use semi-gloss and spray gloss polycrylic is a clear coat.
Here are a couple pics of my Waco painted with latex and my Ercoupe.
Later!!
Anthony

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