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RE: WACO YMF - 12/4/2012 9:53 AM

Stickbuilder

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More like it............

Bill, Waco Brother #1

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/4/2012 12:40 PM

Dash7ATP

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ORIGINAL: skylarkmk1

Joe,

NX 14377 was at the American Waco Club annual Fly In that was held back in June and I had an opportunity to take a few pictures that are not commonly found on the internet.

I have about 55 +/- pictures of NX 14377 which is a 1935 UMF-5 replica hand built by John Hudec over 12 years and completed in March of 2004. It is currently owned by Don Grundstrom and Dean Maupin of Davenport Iowa.

The colors are Red and Cream, has inset ailerons, brass colored windscreen frames, Polished Brass on Burl instrument panels, Tan Leather seats and combing, Gold pin striping around the Cream accents and some other custom touches.

The lady in P3 does not come with it.

That is one beautiful airplane. It has lots of custom touches. I like the windshield frame treatment. Nice! Your last comment spoils it all, however!

Thanks for the photos!

Joe

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/4/2012 1:31 PM

Tony V.

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Dash 7,
You might look here.http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?aircraft_genericsearch=&airlinesearch=&countrysearch=&specialsearch=&daterange=&keywords=waco&range=&sort_order=photo_id+desc&page_limit=15&thumbnails=

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/4/2012 3:24 PM

skylarkmk1

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Sorry Joe

I know it is bummer,

I do not know the lady (I think she is the wife of one of the AWC members) but she was dressed in period type clothes and was asked to sit in the cockpit and I was lucky enough to be able to take a couple of pictures.

An underlying theme to all of the AWC Fly Ins I have been at seems to be dressing in period clothes (or that's what I seem to feel) for the final banquet even though it is usually hot (90° plus) and most people are wearing shorts. We have had cars from the 1930's show up, the band that play's at the evening meals plays period music (1920 - 40's) and dressed in period clothes and even the non-Waco planes that put on demonstration flights or rides are generally from the Golden Age of Flight era. All in all, a good time with plenty to see and do.

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/4/2012 3:52 PM

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The Military Aviation Museum in VA Beach does the same type of event every year. They are a WW II warbird museum with all aircraft in flying condition. They have groups of enacters from all over come is as military units and set up camps around the airfield grounds. They represent units from England, the US of course, germany and I think , even Russia. I'll post a few photos to give you an idea. The entertainment is also period, as is a lot of costumes.

Joe

I know these are not WACO related, but this is a great museum. The collection there is very impressive and their annual events are fanastic!

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/6/2012 6:21 PM

Dash7ATP

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My Aileron Corrugations technique

I did a lot of thinking before I finally decided to try this. It seemed there were a lot of ways to really screw it up. Getting everything propperly spaced and parallel was one issue. A mistake would really stand out. Another was what adhesive to use and not have it all over the place. Here is what I finally came up with.

I drew out the aileron and divided it up for 33 ribs, which is 32 spaces. My measurements gave me 0.42" on centers. I made up a jig using formica and 5/32 music wire glued together with J B Weld. When making the jig, I clamped it together to drill the holes and mark off the spacing. It was very important to keep the spacing the same and dividers were used for this. I made a shallow cut for each location with an exacto saw in a hobby miter box to keep it square. While still clamped together I used a small square file and cut the notches. Finally I glued it up with the J B Weld and left it over night.

For the ribs, I used Plastruct #90502. This is a 1/16" angle and comes 10 to a package for about $6.00. One package does one surface, so eight will be required . $$$

It took several ribs to finally settle on a technique to speed up the process and keep it neat. First I tried to use canapy glue. It did not work. I tried a thick CA and it worked well. The problem came with putting it down and using the jig to space it without smearing the CA around. My final success came when I tried a sticky wax used in fly tying (I like to fly fish and tie flies) to hold the ribs in the jig (photo #3). By having the ribs in the jig, I could apply the CA to the bottom of the rib, and using the previous rib as a guide, place the new ribs in place precisely. The CA grabbed the surface and the wax allowed the jig to be removed without any problems. The secret wax is called dubbing wax. It comes in a tube and is used to wax thread to hold small fibers in place on the thread for wrapping on the hook. I applied a small amount to each "V" which held the plastic rib in place allowing me to apply the CA and then place it in position.

A few words about the jig. You will notice a jig piece is placed closer to one end. This is neccessary to allow for placement of the shorter pieces near the wing tip. I have also glued a piece of 1/32 ply to the of the jig on the "hinge" end of the jig. This was spaced away from the jig with a piece of 3/32" balsa. By placing the "rib" against this and then placing the plywood piece against the edge of the aileron, the ends will all be lined up with little need for trimming. I beveled the ends of all ribs prior to gluing them in place.

This got kinda long, but hopefully it may save someone else some time if they should attempt to try this. I'm sure I'm not the first to use this technique, but since I haven't seen it before, I thought it may be helpful. It is time consuming. I'm guessing I spent several hours on this one surface. The rest will go much faster since I can apply two or three ribs at a time now that I know how. I don't think there is any advantage to having more than four spaces for the ribs, as I never used more than three in doing this.

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/6/2012 7:20 PM

VOX

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Hello,
A few new pictures of my project ...

Albert

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< Message edited by VOX -- 12/6/2012 8:55 PM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/7/2012 1:45 PM

johnboy151a

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Joe, Did you use a sheet of Plastruct to cover the Aileron first before gluing the corrugations?

john

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/7/2012 3:26 PM

Dash7ATP

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quote:

ORIGINAL: johnboy151a

Joe, Did you use a sheet of Plastruct to cover the Aileron first before gluing the corrugations?

john

John,

No, I did not. The ailerons were glassed with 3/4 oz glass and then primed with KlasKote white primer. Since these should look like metal when finished, I did it as if I were finishing a warbird. I plan to add one coat of primer to hopefully seal the edges of the angles prior to the color coat.
I considered a sheet of the plastic but I was conserned about keeping it absolutely flat. Getting it stuck down with no voids under the sheet to bubble up gave me some concerns.

Joe

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/8/2012 2:33 AM

chuck l

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I bought a semi-built 1/3 scale Barth Waco kit today, the fuselage is about 60%. The manual that came with the kit is a decent English translation, but only covers the fuselage and the start of the tail feathers. Vogelsang sent me a pdf file of the manual, although it is complete, it is a broken English translation that is hard to follow. Apparently Peter lost the decent English translation version. Does any one have a copy of the decent English translation of the manual or know where I can get one? The kit is a year old and is his current design.
Chuck

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/8/2012 11:32 AM

aminiet

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@johnboy151a.

I used a plastic sheet to cover the aileron from Evergreen, should be by the railroad section of your local hobbyshop. .020 should be fine, I had no bubbles or any other imperfections.
The corrugations used by dash7aip are incorrect, those are for Cessna, ( sorry ) the ones for WACOS are more squarely and you can get those from evergreen as well.

Angel
WB 58

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/8/2012 5:25 PM

BobH

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A teaser photo for when I begin working on the Barth 1/4 Waco. It's a USM/Seidel 770 radial.

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/8/2012 7:08 PM

Dash7ATP

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I'm not going to dispute your comment on the shape of my corrugations, but if you look at the photo below, I think they look a lot more triangular than they do square. This from a Classic YMF-5 at a nearby airport.

Joe

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/8/2012 7:31 PM

airplanegeek

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i love that Bob H. the radial looks at home in there. Let us know how she runs. It looks like a good option for 1/4 size waco's.

Oh, I also did my ailerons with the plastic triangle material. Tedious and time consuming, but worth the effort.

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/8/2012 7:50 PM

aminiet

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Please take a look at post 2306 on pg. 93 and post 3078 on pg. 124. the shape of the corrugations is not V, they are rectangular.

Bottom line as long as you are happy with it, who cares, no body else will no the difference.

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/8/2012 10:42 PM

Dash7ATP

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quote:

ORIGINAL: aminiet

Please take a look at post 2306 on pg. 93 and post 3078 on pg. 124. the shape of the corrugations is not V, they are rectangular.

Bottom line as long as you are happy with it, who cares, no body else will no the difference.

I have to disagree as to the corrugatioins being rectanglur. That denotes more square corners, which they are not. The top of each one is a half round, which is niether rectangular nor triangular. Given this, and the fact that you cannot buy a piece of stock this size with that cross section, basically an inverted "U", I think the triangular stock comes closer to duplicating the desired effect than a square one will. Finally, you are correct; who else knows or cares.

Joe

< Message edited by Dash7ATP -- 12/8/2012 11:16 PM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/8/2012 11:32 PM

aminiet

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Yes, more like a "U" than a "V" which is what I meant to describe, My failure for not describing the letter U. You can also notice this by looking at the picture you posted on post 15688. Yes the edges are rounded and yes I used the plastic strips to imitate the corrugations, I think they were 1/16x3/32 bonded to the plastic surface with super glue and sanded the edges round as in a "U".
There is a good picture of my aileron on pg. 500 post 12496.

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/9/2012 12:35 AM

johnboy151a

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I see what you mean Angel. BTW, is that an FT-160 hiding in your cowl?

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/9/2012 1:14 AM

aminiet

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Yes it is an FT 160, It has plenty of clearance to the cowling, About 3/8". I had to make a spacer about 1" thick for the propeller to clear the nose

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/9/2012 4:18 AM

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Ok Guys,

Enough about the corrugation shape. You can see in the photo that they have a rounded profile on top and they are rounded in the corners onto the flat. The open corrugation on the bottom of the aileron is every fourth one to drain any condensation out. The closed ends are formed by cutting a narrow V shape out of the end and rolling the ends together. If you need more pictures or info, ask the question.

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/9/2012 4:31 AM

johnboy151a

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I agree with Mr. Howard, enough about the corrugations. it was just a question on my part Frankly I think the Plasticstrut, or equivalent will serve the need just fine.
Joe, I think you Ailerons look great! I will end up doing the exact same thing.....

Angel, as for your FT-160. What is the dry weight of you WACO????? I have an FT-160 that I rebuilt for this kit, but I need other builders experience.

John

< Message edited by johnboy151a -- 12/9/2012 2:48 PM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/9/2012 11:57 AM

aminiet

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The " Fat Cuban " as I like to call it weights 21 pounds according to my bathroom scale and I don't know how accurate that thing is. and no I haven't flown it yet because I am .......chicken ?

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/9/2012 10:00 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BobH

A teaser photo for when I begin working on the Barth 1/4 Waco. It's a USM/Seidel 770 radial.

Perfect choice, Bob! I have one in my 97" Gee Bee Y, and it runs and sounds great! RPM is a little high for scale sound, but still sounds awesome. I am very happy with the engine.

Regards,

James.

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/10/2012 12:41 AM

hopkimf

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quote:

ORIGINAL: chuck l

I bought a semi-built 1/3 scale Barth Waco kit today, the fuselage is about 60%. The manual that came with the kit is a decent English translation, but only covers the fuselage and the start of the tail feathers. Vogelsang sent me a pdf file of the manual, although it is complete, it is a broken English translation that is hard to follow. Apparently Peter lost the decent English translation version. Does any one have a copy of the decent English translation of the manual or know where I can get one? The kit is a year old and is his current design.
Chuck

I have also started on the Barth 1/3 Waco. I don't know how old the kit is, but I expect 5 yrs or more. My manual is translated from German, and pretty skinny and hard to follow. Earlier I emailed Proctor and asked if they had something. Got no response.
So far I have the upper wing built, less LE sheeting and cap strips. Next is lower wing. The plans are enough to get it done, but every time I pick up the printed instructions i go nuts.

Any recommendations on a good set of instructions would be appreciated.

Thanks
Mike Hopkins

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RE: WACO YMF - 12/10/2012 12:55 AM

chuck l

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hopkimf
Mike,

This is the manual Vogelsang sent me, it might help you.

Chuck

quote:

ORIGINAL: chuck l

I bought a semi-built 1/3 scale Barth Waco kit today, the fuselage is about 60%. The manual that came with the kit is a decent English translation, but only covers the fuselage and the start of the tail feathers. Vogelsang sent me a pdf file of the manual, although it is complete, it is a broken English translation that is hard to follow. Apparently Peter lost the decent English translation version. Does any one have a copy of the decent English translation of the manual or know where I can get one? The kit is a year old and is his current design.
Chuck

I have also started on the Barth 1/3 Waco. I don't know how old the kit is, but I expect 5 yrs or more. My manual is translated from German, and pretty skinny and hard to follow. Earlier I emailed Proctor and asked if they had something. Got no response.
So far I have the upper wing built, less LE sheeting and cap strips. Next is lower wing. The plans are enough to get it done, but every time I pick up the printed instructions i go nuts.

Any recommendations on a good set of instructions would be appreciated.

Thanks
Mike Hopkins

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