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WACO YMF - 3/20/2006 9:48 PM 3 votes

3 votes

Stickbuilder

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I bought the Pica YMF 3/5 on ebay yesterday. I have offered it to 2 kit cutters to see if they would be interested in reproducing this one. I believe that the Copyright has expired on this kit, and PICA is no longer in business. I need a little help here. all who would be interested in a new kit of this model, please let me know. These are business people, and they will want an idea of the demand for this one prior to making this kind of investment.

<<Moderator Edit: Edited to add thread index at the request of the members of this thread.>>

Pica Waco YMF Index
(Just click on the post number and it will take you to that post)

Most items of interest are included and this index also references the Barth YMF, Jim Pepino YMF and other threads that may have information pertinent to the subject. It is likely that some items have been overlooked and not all items listed. Suggest looking at a few posts before and after the selected post to see if your question is answered. Or post your question.

Thanks to SuperCubMan (WB #56) for compiling most of the index (I added a few more), CTflyboy (WB #5) for tipping me off on the index and putting me in touch with Ken Isaac, RCU Moderator, who gave me the format to convert the index and for inserting it in this thread. Skylarkmk1 (WB #26).

Additional info can be found on the House of Moy supplemental Site http://www.houseofmoy.com/waco/

Ailerons
1878, 2307, 2849, 2854, 3041, 3054, 3079, 391(Barth), 3809, 3811, 1491, 1509, 3747, 3754, 4006, 83(Barth), 91(Barth), 4097, 3373

Cockpit
174, 172, 2324, 2590, 2843, 2849, 2993, 2997, 116, 108(Barth), 410(Barth),

Cockpit – 1930s
1920, 2995, 3335 (SRE), 3646, 3650, 3651, 3652, 3659, 3660, 3670

Cockpit – Classic and Supers
2993, 2997, 1929

Covering
1783, 1784, 1785, 1786, 1787, 1792

Cowl
3401, 3402, 4202, 4208, 4221, 4228, 4432, 4874, 4877, 4878, 4881, 4890, 4941

Flying Wires
195 (Barth), 199 (Barth), 201 (Barth), 2322, 4087, 4093, 4499

Fuselage – Construction
1801, 1806, 1595, 2009, 2221, 2545, 2687, 3126, 1 (Barth)

Fuselage – Hatch – Model
98 (Barth), 1386, 1395, 1404, 1694, 2319

Full Size
213 (Pepino), 3304, 3323

Windscreen
172 (Barth), 1591, 2194

Front Cockpit
1412

Landing Gear – Sprung
1471, 3898

Aluminum Sheet
3028, 3036, 3053, 3063, 3129, 3132, 3138, 3208, 4701

Full Scale YMF Fairings
2909, 2923, 2931

Center Spring Wire Gear
35 (Barth), 37 (Barth), 40 (Barth), 1646, 1649, 3993, 4526, 4530, 4546, 4548, 4550, 4551

Hatch
1628, 1649

Covering
4902, 4903, 4904

Engine – G-26
2829, 3853

Engine – Saito 160 Twin
16, 19

Engine – Saito 120
58

Engine – Saito 170 Radial
155, 2996

Full Size
1959, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1969, 4059, 4111

Dummy
883, 931, 4055, 4057, 4058, 4060, 4062, 4085, 4121, 3675

Exhaust
722, 337 (Barth)

Fuel Dot
1696

Prop
4067, 4069

Rudder Trim Tab
3102, 3103, 3112, 374 (Barth)

Rudder Details
2933, 2938

Rudder Control Horns
1690, 1791

Adjustable Stab
1620

Struts and Cabanes – Wing
3126, 350 (Barth), 351 (Barth)], 353 (Barth), 3889, 4882, 4887, 4888. 4889, 5009, 5012, 5243

Strut – Brazing
4971

Tail Wire Bracing
4921

Wheels – Full Size Tail Wheel
2786, 2803, 78 (Pepino), 2963

Model Tail Wheel
719, 720, 1050, 1051, 1052, 1063, 2221, 68 (Pepino), 69 (Pepino)

Tail Wheel – Spring loaded
2512, 2538, 2575, 2937, 3024

Wings – Struts
351 (Barth), 353 (Barth), 754, 755, 2907

Wing Tips – Model
2395, 2398, 2540, 2946

Wing Tips – Full Size
2542, 2543, 2699

Wing/Fuselage Fairing
159, 167, 455, 2522, 5235

Wing Dihedral/Brace
80, 85, 88, 300, 2686

Wing – Tank Cover
2951, 4157, 4161

Wing Servo Mounts
754, 755

Wing Aileron Hinges
3995

Lights – Wing Tip – Navigation – Landing
3439, 3442, 3661, 3678, 3679, 3681, 3683, 3684, 3777, 3786, 3787, 4065, 403 (Barth), 4386

General Detail – Logos – Data Plates
1924, 3000, 1407, 4115, 4118, 4376, 4384, 16 (Barth), 4352

Locks, Latches, Screws and Panels
1910, 3336, 1818, 1833, 1859, 47 (Barth), 54 (Barth), 64 (Barth), 67 (Barth)

Completed Models
59, 60 (Barth), 101, 128, 184, 189, 257, 306, 348, 383, 462, 498 (Barth), 499 (Barth), 3637
2318, 2319, 2320, 2322, 2324, 1858, 1863, 4125

< Message edited by RCKen -- 2/18/2008 8:06 AM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 3/20/2006 10:36 PM 1 votes

1 votes

RCVFR

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Me! This one has been on my wish list for a long time.

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RE: WACO YMF - 3/21/2006 12:00 AM

Stickbuilder

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Thanks, I need to show the kit cutters a bona fide demand for this one. I mean, I'm willing to let them use my kit for patterns and use the plans and the manual, this seems like a no brainer. I may end up having to have them cut the kit, and I may have to have the plans and manual reprinted, and distribute the kits myself. Small price to keep this one alive.

Bill

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RE: WACO YMF - 3/25/2006 8:59 PM

skylane42

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One consideration might be that there is always at least one PICA Waco on ebay and they consistantly sell for $160.00 for the 1/6 and $250.00 for the 1/5. There is a fair amount of wood and cutting plus the molded parts like the wheel pants, cowl, fuel tank, corrogated control coverings etc. Bob Harris was cutting Sr Falcon kits and selling them for $150 with good success. Given this info you would have to get a quote form your cutter. If you go glass cowl, to buy retail they are like $30+. I did contact one cutter about the kit and they said that there were too many parts to make it profitable.. Just my 2 Cent worth.

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RE: WACO YMF - 3/26/2006 1:34 PM

Stickbuilder

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I didn't even consider the profit problem. This is probably why PICA is no longer in business. This kit should not be allowed to become lost to the ages. It is a beautiful model, and a true classic. No, it is not an ultimate, nor is it a pitts. It is the best Stand off scale model of the WACO YMF that has ever come along. I know that the scale purists out there can pick it to pieces, and I know that it does not conform exactly to scale outline, but I have never been one to nit-pick that closely. I would have been willing to finance cutting some kits in order to keep this one from suffering the same fate as have most of our favorites. This will not be necessary, since COX has purchased the PICA company, and will re-release the Grand PICA kits. There should be an adequate supply of them.

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RE: WACO YMF - 3/26/2006 3:32 PM

yel914

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I have this kit on my wish list also, so I'd be interested. Scratch or kit, one day I'll own one!

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RE: WACO YMF - 6/30/2006 9:56 PM

chris1949

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Hi anyone out there looking for info on pica waco ymf 1/6 scale,wing incedince,both,stab incidence and cg any info would be helpful Please email to gallagher@mhcable.com yhanx Chris

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/1/2006 5:55 AM

Ernest-T

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quote:

ORIGINAL: chris1949

Hi anyone out there looking for info on pica waco ymf 1/6 scale,wing incedince,both,stab incidence and cg any info would be helpful Please email to gallagher@mhcable.com yhanx Chris

I took a quick look at some old plans of the 1/6 scale WACO. The CG is 4.5" back from the LE of the top wing. There is no mention of incidence angles that I can find on the plans or manual (but I took only a quick look). It seems like the incidence was set with a jig for the top wing, and the bottom wing was pretty much locked in by the wing saddle.

My plans are pretty damaged, but from what I can tell the top wing is has 0.5 - 1 degrees of positive, and the bottom wing has 0 degrees using the flat bottom portion of the wing as a reference line. The stab probably has at least 2 degrees positive. I would bet that someone out there can give you more accurate numbers. If not, let me know and I'll try to get more accurate measurments.

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/1/2006 3:00 PM

aerowoof

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common mistake of using the flat section of a flat bottom airfoil such as a clark y etc, as 0 degree incidence,as the true incidence runs from the center of the le to the center of the trailing edge and is usually 2-3 degrees positive if the flat portion is at 0

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/1/2006 6:20 PM

Ernest-T

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quote:

ORIGINAL: aerowoof

common mistake of using the flat section of a flat bottom airfoil such as a clark y etc, as 0 degree incidence,as the true incidence runs from the center of the le to the center of the trailing edge and is usually 2-3 degrees positive if the flat portion is at 0

I understand what you are saying aerowoof. On my particular set of plans as they have drawn the wing outline, if you use the center of the LE and TE as the reference line (as you would with an incidence meter), I end up with 2 degrees of negative incidence in the top wing, and 1 degree negative for the bottom wing.

Negative incidence did not seem right to me??? That is I why I looked at the flat bottom of the Clark Y. I was afraid that the wing outlines may not be drawn correctly on the plans???

Now that I have measured more closely the flat portion of the wings is close to 0 for both the top and bottom wings as per your post, and the stab is + 2 degrees.

In summary, according to my plans:
Using Incidence Meter (center of LE and TE): Top -2, Bottom -1, Stab +2
Using Flat portion of Wings as drawn on plan: Top 0, Bottom 0, Stab +2

NOTE: On the 1/5 scale Pica WACO plans it states the incidence as 0 for both top and bottom wings and +2 degrees for the stab. Using the flat portion of the wings as your reference line this would give the same numbers for the 1/6 scale WACO.

I hope I’m not confusing everyone.

< Message edited by Ernest-T -- 7/1/2006 6:27 PM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/1/2006 7:04 PM

LesUyeda

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The problem is that the Pica YMF (and just about everyone elses) is based on the original drawings by Paul Matt and he drew the airfoil as a Clark Y, but referenced the flat of the airfoil as 0 degrees incidence, which makes it very close to +1.75. He also states the rigging incidence as + or - 1/2 degree. The horizontal stab was adjustable +3 to -4 degrees. Pica's setting of +2 would put the wings flying very close to -.25 degrees. I was not happy with the amount of up elevator I had to carry on mine to get a good scale flying speed, so on the one I am designing and building now, I am making it adjustable.

If one looks at most of the pictures of the real ones, they are flying with positive incidence on the horizontal stab, so I suspect that this provides the most efficient attitude.

Les

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/1/2006 8:33 PM

chris1949

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Hi chris here ,0 incedence bottom,-1 to 2 deg top wing,2 degrees elevator would seem about right.I checked my aeromaster kit and thats what they are on that airplane.The reason for negative upper wing is so that it stalls after the bottom wing does.On a aeromaster I had years ago you could see the advantage of + stab during flight it would fly slightly tail high.Anyway thanx For all the info it will be of a lot help in the repair of the airplane thanx Chris

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/2/2006 4:50 AM

Stickbuilder

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The WACO YMF 3/5 had an adjustable horizontal stab. The Incidence could be adjusted. I have considered doing this on one of my models. I may attempt it on the one that I'm currently framing up. I have several more of these kits (1/5th Scale), and I think that this is very possible to accomplish. I'll keep you posted and let you know how it works out.

Bill, AMA 4720

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/2/2006 5:28 AM

Ernest-T

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder

The WACO YMF 3/5 had an adjustable horizontal stab. The Incidence could be adjusted. I have considered doing this on one of my models. I may attempt it on the one that I'm currently framing up. I have several more of these kits (1/5th Scale), and I think that this is very possible to accomplish. I'll keep you posted and let you know how it works out.

Bill, AMA 4720

Looks nice Bill. What are you planning to power it with?

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/2/2006 2:38 PM

Stickbuilder

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Ernest T,

This one (like the last one) is getting an OS 160 4 Stroke twin. The first one that I built got a Maloney 125. It was marginally powered with this engine. The second one got an OS 120 (non-pump) flew great. The third one got a MOKI 1.8, and was overpowered (it would do things that the full scale bird could not dream of). The fourth one got the 160 twin, and I think that it's the perfect engine for this model. I have several more in the boxes waiting to be built. As far as I am concerned, they will all have this engine (might consider the Saito 182 twin). Unlike the others in the past, this one will not be able to be bought. Stupidly, I allowed myself to be talked into selling the other ones. No more.

This one has been significantly modified, in that the beam mounts have been cut off (still used part of them to strengthen the structure) and a 5/16 plywood firewall is used, which allows the radial mount of the twin. Doing this means opening the rear of the fuel tank box in order to fit and service the fuel tank. If any of you guys are building this model, do not use the aileron setup as shown on the plan, but rather use at least 2 servos and drive the top ailerons with links. There is just too much lost motion and slop using the pushrods and belldranks that are supplied with the kit.

On the tail, I use pull-pull on both the rudder and the elevators. Not only does it look more scale, but the operation of the control surfaces is more precise. I do not build up the wheel pants, but use a set of fiberglass pants from one of the outside vendors. They all have very nice ones. I do lay up the wheel pant fairings myself, to blend the pants with the landing gear fairings, and give the model a more scale like appearance. I do the same thing with the lower wing fairing and the tail group as well. I cover with Koverall, and dope. I use a light coat of automobile primer, and finish with single stage acrylic automobile paint. No problems with not being fuel proof (if you clean the model after flying). This one is going to be burgandy with cream trim. I don't use the kit decals, but mask and airbrush, followed by hand striping the edges of the trim with a dagger brush. This method requires a few special skills, but they are skills that anyone can master with a little practice. I guess you could say that I'm not into instant gratification. No ARF's for me, not even the new COX WACO. It's pretty, but it has no soul.

Bill, AMA 4720

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/2/2006 3:50 PM

aerowoof

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Thanks for the building comments,I sold my 1/6 platt waco ymf kit for enough to buy the 1/5 pica waco ymf as I felt it would fly better with details added and be easier to see.I have a st 2000 I was planning on using for power.I know what you meean about the malony 125,I bought a package deal way back from world engines that was the robinhood 80 kit and the maloney 100.engine weighs 4 pounds,airframe weighs 10 pounds with radio etc,total of 14 pounds and nose heavy flies like a cub very slow and needs coordinated rudder in the turns.sold the 100 and installed the 125 at the same weight have enough power to do a loop but i will not try a roll as it is slow rolling.

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/3/2006 2:49 AM

Stickbuilder

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I've been covering this afternoon. I have the top third done, and the tail feathers, and 2 coats of nitrate on.

Bill AMA 4720

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/3/2006 2:51 AM

Stickbuilder

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a few more pics

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/4/2006 2:22 AM

Ernest-T

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Hi Bill,

That 160 twin looks like a perfect fit. Now you got me thinking I might want to try one in mine. I had planned to power mine with a Saito 120 or possibly a 150 which I have on hand, but I really like the looks of that 160, and the fact that you don't have to cut a hole in the cowl. I bet it sounds great too!

I've never tried a twin, but have a friend with one of the Saito tiwns and it sounds real nice. Unfortunately, he has lots of problems keeping his running right. Do you have any problems keeping both cylinders hot, or do you use on-board glow system to keep them going?

Aerowoof, I also had a Maloney 100, which was not only my first gas engine, but one of the first engines I ever had. That thing would never run right, and required constant fiddling. Even when it ran great, it didn't have much power. I got real good doing dead stick landings with that engine.

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/4/2006 3:55 AM

aerowoof

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I found that the filter screens inside the carb would clog easily and prevent fuel from flowing to the jets.the screens were a finer mesh than my fuel filter,once i removed it problem went away.

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/4/2006 6:39 AM

Stickbuilder

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Ernest T,

I use a Maxx Products on board glow driver with mine. You can set it up at any percentage of throttle for on and off. I also used a dedicated auxilliary switch and channel, so I can reheat the plugs at any throttle setting. Going to low throttle when a glow plug goes cold is not conducive to long life of a nice model plane. You tend to run out of airspeed, altitude, and ideas simultaneously.

Bill, AMa 4720

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/4/2006 10:34 PM

Lou Melancon

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I built the PICA 1/5th WACO about three years ago. Finish is 21st Century Fabric and power is an OS FX .91. The battery had to be mounted under the engine to get it to balance.

I was very concerned that the plane would be under powered. It flies great with this engine and a Zinger 15X6 prop. It will look from level flight at half throttle. A pattern flier in the club put it through its paces and did some amazing rolling circles at partial throttle.

I will certainly build another one day. Hope the one I have now last quite a bit longer.

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/10/2006 4:06 AM

Stickbuilder

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I finished covering the fuselage today, and added the seam tape (pinking tape). Good Lord, I'm glad that is not something that I do every day. I think that the dog even got a buzz from the Nitrate dope fumes. That fuselage is nothing but a compound curve from every direction. I had forgotten how much fun they are to cover. I'll have some pics as soon as I charge the camera batteries.

Bill, AMA 4720

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/11/2006 4:38 AM

Stickbuilder

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Okay, here is the fuselage, Koverall and Nitrate Dope. Seam Tape is on as well.

Bill, AMA 4720

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/11/2006 5:05 AM

chris1949

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Hi Bill Im planing to fly my repaired waco with a st 75 in your opinion is it enough for this airplane.I just painted it with a old Ford cream color and folker red with the scallop detail,what a maskers nightmare but it turned out real sharp.Everybody thats seen it really loves the color combo,even my wife the ultimate acid test Thanx Chris

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