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RE: WACO YMF - 5/12/2007 4:19 PM   
trlambsr


 

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Status: offline 		Thought I would just add one of my fantasies. Build the 40 for the lake at Joe Nall next year. How about that for and great plane
TR
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RE: WACO YMF - 5/12/2007 4:43 PM   
mango12


 

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Status: offline 		Boy, some of us get started on this WAY too early !!! I just recieved the corrugated material from Sig for my ailerons and I have a not so well informed ( read "dumb" ) question for one of the guru's. How many corrugations per aileron? I saw it somewhere but cannot find it now.
Thanks
Scott
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RE: WACO YMF - 5/12/2007 4:59 PM   
Stickbuilder



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If momory serves me well, I think that there are 27 per side per surface. I will go back and count them, and let you know.

Bill, AMA 4720
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< Message edited by Stickbuilder -- 5/12/2007 5:08 PM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 5/12/2007 5:07 PM   
Stickbuilder



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ORIGINAL: trlambsr

Thought I would just add one of my fantasies. Build the 40 for the lake at Joe Nall next year. How about that for and great plane
TR
WACO Brotherhood #69


TR,

Several of us in the Brotherhood have been toying around with the float equipped version of the YMF/UMF. There are several photos of these birds with floats. I believe that the correct float for the originals would be the round top EDO model. Now that you are a member of the Brotherhood, may I pose a question to you? Would Genesis consider a smaller version of the kit? Something in the 1/4 scale range. I relocated to Florida a few years ago, and this required that I downsize my modeling requirements. I no longer have a shop that would allow for building a full scale Waco if that is what I wanted to accomplish. I now must build in a shop that is limited in size and that translates into building models in a more managable scale. So how about it? Would you be willing to look into the possibilities of a smaller kit, or must we look to the likes of the Barth version, or simply scaling our own, or building the Pepino version? (boy talk about putting a Brother on the spot.....) It would be wonderful if I could enlarge my building space, but that is niether realistic, or feasable.

Bill, AMA 4720
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RE: WACO YMF - 5/12/2007 5:19 PM   
Stickbuilder



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Status: offline 		Mango,

Yep, there are 27 per surface, and the spacing is approximately 1/2" on center. The aileron length is 13 5/8" spanwise, so all these numbers work out about right. On the full scale model, every third corrugation appears to be open on the trailing edge (for moisture drainage?) I'm sure that SlylarkMk1 will be able to shed some light on this. I would really be happy to have the resources available to me that he has. Jay (damifino) is looking into the possiblilty of having some of these replicated either in glass or Carbon fiber. These would make the process much easier. I am making a pair of the originals available to whomever wishes to make these for us. This should happen in the near future, but if you need them now, you are pretty much on your own. These things take time, since this is very much a cottage industry, and the guys who make these parts are into it as an avocation, and don't rely on it for their primary income. There are getting to be a lot of people interested in the WACO, but there is still not a tremendous call for parts for them.

Bill, AMA 4720
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RE: WACO YMF - 5/12/2007 5:31 PM   
skylarkmk1



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According to the Historical Aviation Museum drawing by Paul Matt, there are 34 stiffeners per side. That makes a total of 272 stiffeners (or corrugations). 4 ailerons x 2 sides x 34 = 272. Here are a couple of full size photos. 1st is an overall shot (I count 34), 2nd is a close-up of the bottom inboard end with control horn (ball type linkage). 3rd is an edge shot and note that every 3rd bottom stiffener is open to allow condensation drainage. Based on Bill’s dimension of 13.625 (13-5/8ths) above, 34 corrugations would end up a little less than 4 tenths (about 3/8th" )apart allowing for the end stiffeners to be inset.


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RE: WACO YMF - 5/12/2007 5:42 PM   
khodges


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder


quote:

ORIGINAL: trlambsr

Thought I would just add one of my fantasies. Build the 40 for the lake at Joe Nall next year. How about that for and great plane
TR
WACO Brotherhood #69


TR,

this required that I downsize my modeling requirements. ..... I now must build in a shop that is limited in size and that translates into building models in a more managable scale. ....... It would be wonderful if I could enlarge my building space, but that is niether realistic, or feasable.




Bill, aren't you glad you not still wedged between a couple of missile tubes trying to build one of these? Imagine trying to do a 1/3 scale there and then getting it out through the hatches without dinging it .

I appreciate all the positive comments; I've done the flying wires and will add the damping rods (the sticks in the middle of the wires) today. I also have the aileron linkages done and a couple of touch-ups. I have a small binding problem to work out with the rudder/tailwheel linkage that means disassembling the plane again, but no big deal. I also have tail numbers and wing numbers to add, but will do them with vinyl appliques and haven't been to the guy who makes them for us yet. The picture I used shows wing numbers in a somewhat different color than the scalloped trim (it's a B&W pic, so can't tell exactly what the colors are). As nice as the pattern is, I am tempted to omit the wing numbers and do the tail number only, or maybe do the numbers on the sides of the fuse, forward of the empennage. What do you guys think? At any rate, there will be a photo session this afternoon, many detail and closeups, with the daylight instead of floodlights and flash

triambsr-- That is also one of my fantasies, and I have a set of Great Planes floats (60-size kit) which is my next project to adapt to this plane. They measure out to within 1/2 inch of the proper proportion of float to fuse length, and should support the weight of this plane. I have about a half dozen pics of different Waco's, mostly YMF's on floats. The older, originals seemed to have the round topped EDO floats, but I have a shot of a YMF Super (other than the one you just posted) that has the flat topped ones, so either one I guess is technically correct. The most difficult part of putting these floats on the ARF version is adapting the mounting to utilize themethod the ARF uses to attach the wheel gear. On the full scale, the rear of the gear leg fairing is slightly behind the leading edge of the lower wing; on the ARF it stops just forward of it, not so much that it looks bad, but knowing what to look for, well.....

Likewise, the rear strut of the floats ties in to the fuse just behind the leading edge of the bottom wing, so it means getting creative with bending heavy gauge piano wire to simulate this and still have a strong base of support for the floats. I have some ideas, but haven't mocked them up yet. And speaking of weight, makes me wonder how much MORE weight this will add to this plane, and how much weight can a G-26 haul off the water. Hmmmmm.....................

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RE: WACO YMF - 5/12/2007 6:34 PM   
Jim Henley


 

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Status: offline 		Scott,
I think there are 31 or 34 to be scale, however, the plastic covers that come with the kit have 27 per side. At 1/2 inch spacing 27 1/16 X 1/16 looks about right. I went with 1/2 inch spacing for conveniance sake, as this will be a stand (way way) off scale model.

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RE: WACO YMF - 5/12/2007 7:55 PM   
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ORIGINAL: skylarkmk1

Mango,

According to the Historical Aviation Museum drawing by Paul Matt, there are 34 stiffeners per side. That makes a total of 272 stiffeners (or corrugations). 4 ailerons x 2 sides x 34 = 272. Here are a couple of full size photos. 1st is an overall shot (I count 34), 2nd is a close-up of the bottom inboard end with control horn (ball type linkage). 3rd is an edge shot and note that every 3rd bottom stiffener is open to allow condensation drainage. Based on Bill’s dimension of 13.625 (13-5/8ths) above, 34 corrugations would end up a little less than 4 tenths apart allowing for then end stiffeners to be inset.



As usual, I stand corrected. The 27 count is from the set that came with the Pica fifth scale parts. I didn't get a count on Mike Barbee's 33% model, but it looked correct.

I am doing this model with the ball type control horn and a 90 degree bellcrank driven by the servo. I guess that I'll need to scrap the idea of using the supplied aileron covers and use plastistruct pieces to replicate the aileron corrugations. Sigh...

Bill, AMA 4720
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RE: WACO YMF - 5/12/2007 8:12 PM   
mango12


 

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Status: offline 		Thank you Brothers for your insight. Big bird, if you are keeping track of this thread, the Pepino plans suggest using Morrisy Bravo (Sig)aileron covers for the corrugated parts. They do not have the correct amount of corrugations on them. Not real costly to find out, just wish I had not bought them to make this discovery.
Scott
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RE: WACO YMF - 5/12/2007 11:01 PM   
khodges


 

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Status: offline 		Mango, I used the Sig stuff for my ailerons, and they look fine. Unless you have a "rivet counter" that is knowledeable about the correct number looking at your plane, nobody will ever know. I had 3 different part #'s from Sig for this corrugated material. The spread between the corrugations is different for each one, and unfortunately, the one closest to the correct specs is too short a piece to span the entire aileron in one piece. The part numbers and sizes of the pieces (as well as Sig's direct order price) is as follows:

SIGRPRP404A---0.010 x 5-1/8 x 12 $1.99 ea. (this is the most accurate, but too short) the distance between ridges is just about 1/2 in.

SIGRPCP2571---0.010 x 8 x 17 2.59 ea (the size I used), the distance between ridges is about 5/8 in.

SIGRPCP2572---0.010 x 6-1/2 x 13-1/2 1.99 ea. the ridges are about 3/4 inch apart.

Look for some pics a bit later today, you can see what they look like. Be careful when you glue them to the aileron surface; the plastic is so thin the adhesive will soften and wrinkle it if yo use too much (don't ask how I know )

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RE: WACO YMF - 5/12/2007 11:18 PM   
mango12


 

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Status: offline 		Khodges, that is the size that I got, so I'll probably use it.What kind of adhesive did you use? I had thought about using thinned down contact cement, I can't remember if it produces heat during the curing process. Guess I can test a small piece to see.
Scott
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RE: WACO YMF - 5/12/2007 11:29 PM   
skylarkmk1



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Check out posts 119/120 of the Barth build about your question of Genisis vs Barth. http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_4987146/anchors_5845393/mpage_5/key_/anchor/tm.htm#5845393 . RCWalker and BigBoy99 seem to think it is a well done kit.

< Message edited by skylarkmk1 -- 5/13/2007 12:28 AM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 5/12/2007 11:33 PM   
FMBB


 

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Status: offline 		I recommend a Laser 300 or 360 which is just the right power for the Waco to do aerobatics.

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RE: WACO YMF - 5/12/2007 11:41 PM   
FMBB


 

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Status: offline 		No thanks I not to offten on RCU to follow. Just from time to time as I have to fulfil my customers requests. But if it is possible I would like to buy the nice tees.

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RE: WACO YMF - 5/12/2007 11:46 PM   
zig


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Waco Brotherhood, Been reading your posts for quite a while and would like to be a part of your organization. I don't post much but I do enjoy reading about your planes. I am currently flying a 1/5 , and 1/6 th Pica YMF , a 1/4 ( I think) YKS cabin (maybe someone can help me identify it for sure) I got it from Jeff Quesenberry in the warbird world about ten or so years ago and it is a real fantastic flyer. I also have a SRE I am finishing that someone started many years ago. For fun and low stress I fly a sportsman aviation ARF, very standoff scale, but forgiving. Won't fall out of the sky like the Pica. I want to do a Pepino YMF when time and funds permit. Thanks for listening and keep the interesting posts coming. ZIG

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RE: WACO YMF - 5/13/2007 1:23 AM   
khodges


 

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Status: offline 		zig, I think I speak for all the Brothers in saying that anybody who has 5 Waco models is a shoo-in for membership. I also have the little Sportsman UPF-7 stand-way-off scale, and it is a ball to fly; I must differ with you on one point though: it WILL fall out of the sky (at least mine has ), and more than once.

I'll tell you what, guys..........all this talk about Barth and Genesis is intimidating as hell, and also has me drooling for one. I agree with you, Master Chief, the 1/4 scale is plenty big for me, and unless Ed McMahon comes knocking at my door, it's likely I'll never go any bigger than that (if he knocks, it'll be a full-scale )

Here's some photos made today. I still may add a few doo-dads to her (fuel lines down the cabane struts for one), but it is pretty much like it will fly. These are for the brochure , details following:

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RE: WACO YMF - 5/13/2007 1:31 AM   
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Status: offline 		Here's some details; the baggage hatch that hides the battery switches for Rx and smoke system, the corrugated ailerons, tail wheel and rudder linkage, and an underneath shot up front showing the added gear struts. Also notice on this shot that not really a lot of cutting was done to the cowl to fit the G-26 and Slimline Pitts muffler

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RE: WACO YMF - 5/13/2007 1:44 AM   
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Status: offline 		More details; a front-on shot of the engine, and a close-up of the choke lever for the carb. I can just reach a finger in and flip it on or off when starting. Also an underneath shot from the rear, and another aileron shot showing travel limits. I have a bunch of expo in all the surfaces, and as you can see, there is quite a bit of differential in the ailerons. The ARF comes center-hinged, which I changed to top hinged. It limits the downward travel, but there should be about 2.5:1 differential and I don't think there will be any problems with roll authority. I have about the same in my little UPF and it will roll very quickly.

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RE: WACO YMF - 5/13/2007 1:53 AM   
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You are now officially known to all as Brother #51. Welcome to the Brotherhood....6 WACO's....WOW!!!!! Guys we have a master in our midst. Please refer to the roster on page 92. I have decided to only post an updated roster to the current page every 10 pages or so, since doing so eats up a ton of page space. If I knew how to add the roster to page one at the top, I would do that, and never have to move it. Any idea's guys?????

Bill, AMA 4720
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< Message edited by Stickbuilder -- 5/13/2007 2:05 AM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 5/13/2007 1:55 AM   
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Status: offline 		And some more. The flying wires are made from elastic cord, got it at the craft store. I cut them so they are half as long as they need to span. I used a metal ferrule that fishermen use on steel leader to hold a loop in one end of the cord. The other end is threaded through the fittings made from male electrical spade terminals and knotted. The looped end fits over a small hook made from brass and screwed in place. If I need to remove the wires to take off a wing, all I have to do is slip the loop off the hook. They are all on the underside of the top wing so as not to be too obvious. The vibration damping rod in the middle of the wires is a piece of bamboo skewer and is tied to the wires with a 4-0 silk suture (which is black).

Sorry the two shots are blurry. I'll reshoot them later.

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RE: WACO YMF - 5/13/2007 2:00 AM   
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Status: offline 		Ken,

I like the effect of the prop "Stick" to hold the hatch open.

No squeezing between the missle tubes in Sherwood Forest for me. I was a SSN guy, not SSBN. I was fast attack all the way. The Boomers exist as a missle launch platform with a torpedo suite for defense. A fast attack boat is a platform for the Torpedo suite, and uses the weapons carried therein in a more offensive manner. But, if you really want to know what your Cold War era tax dollars went for, pick up a book named, "Blind Man's Bluff". It will make you lose some sleep at night. It is the unmitigated honest story of the Fast Attack Submariner's life. It still scares the stink out of me.

The detailing is like the rest of the model....Superb.

Bill, AMA 4720
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< Message edited by Stickbuilder -- 5/13/2007 2:02 AM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 5/13/2007 2:24 AM   
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Status: offline 		And finally, the cockpits. One of the major differences in the ARF and Pica kit is the box structure that the ARF uses for the majority of the fuse. Curved formers are added that the stringers are glued to to give the round form. This box limits the depth of the cockpit, the bottom of which is the top of the internal box. Since the fuse diameter decreases forward of the rear cockpit, the floor of the front cockpit is even shallower. The ARF doesn't even come with a front cockpit (neither does the Pica kit, nez pas?) but since the "F" in YMF or UMF means "tandem cockpit, 2-or 3-place, open, 1930-1937", I decided to add one. The door is just for looks, and the door handle for it, as well as the baggage compartment, is made from a steel clevis soldered to a piece of 2-56 control rod. the clevis is bent over the rod and half is cut off, the other half cut down to size with a dremel cutoff wheel. The coaming of both 'pits is leather, and the seatback and headrest of the rear cockpit is leather also, with foam padding (the pilot HAS to be comfortable)

I used a J-Tec 1/5 scale instrument sheet and made the panel from 1/32 ply; I placed the cut out instruments in the desired order on a piece of 1/64 ply, and traced the circles, then cut them out. Then I glued the instrument faces to the 1/32 ply, covered them with a piece of clear acetate included in the J-Tec set, and then glued the 1/64 ply over it. This makes the instruments look sunk into the panel. The toggle switch in the rear cockpit is the kill switch for the magneto ignitioned G-26. The front 'pit has fewer instruments, but the necessary ones to permit piloting from the front. The windscreen for the rear cockpit is made from 3/32 Lexan polycarbonate, with a frame made from 0.010 styrene strips. the front screen only has an inner frame, and instead of permanently being attached like the rear, it is removable, like the full-scale. There are two pieces of piano wire that fit in sleeves on the frame and extend into the fuse. These hold the screen in place against propblast and airstream, and two small button head screws keep it from coming loose.

Also in this group is a shot of the fuel tank fillers and vents. The vents are made from 1/8 in copper tubing bent to shape. I figured they would be easy to snag, so they are held in place with a drop of silicone sealerand will pull out without breaking anything else.
The two fillers you see on the fuse just aft of the cowl are the real fuel filler and smoke fluid filler. How do I remember which is which? The fuel filler is on the same side as the carburetor (right-hand side)

That's about it. I could have kept on detailing, but the dang thing would weigh 40 pounds by the time I got through. There were some small details like the bolts around the tank, that I couldn't make look like I wanted, so I said screw it.

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RE: WACO YMF - 5/13/2007 2:45 AM   
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Truly a work of genius and a work of art. WOW !!!!! I stand in awe.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

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Its easy, just glue all the pieces together, and sand off everything that doesnt look like an airplane.

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(in reply to khodges)
       Post #: 2324

RE: WACO YMF - 5/13/2007 4:26 AM   
Vandolay



Posts: 29
Score: 100
Joined: 3/31/2007
Last Login: 5/20/2007
From: , ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Sorry, new to this. this was in reply to the experinence Hughes500 was having on Jan 27,07 post 1032. Pg 42

The quote I was referring to:


So I'm looking at the template you showed me and on my manual, page 39 shows the blisters in the exact same locations as my glass cowl in the pictures above. I am unsure as to why Pica would do this but if your guys' plans and templates are different than mine, then we found another difference in the age of these kits (end quote)


Make sure your plans are accurate if they are a copy. Measure the span. The sixth is 60" the fifth is 72". I paid good money for a set of Pica plans done on a crappy copier and it shrank the plan. Bringing this to the attention of the seller did nothing. If the span is too big/small for the scale of your model then the whole sheet is off proportionally and your positioning tape measure to be cut from the sheet will be proportionally out of whack to the rest of the drawing. It's hard to get plan copies dead on. A quarter inch either way over five feet is acceptable (to me anyway). Most plans being copied do not have to be scaled, not to mention used as patterns, ie: building location or construction drawings.

Just an idea.

Art

< Message edited by Vandolay -- 5/13/2007 4:39 AM >

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(in reply to Hughes500E)
       Post #: 2325

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