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RE: WACO YMF - 7/14/2007 8:06 PM   
Hughes500E



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From: Armstrong, BC, CANADA
Status: offline 		Hi Jay,
Yes, rib stitching, panel lines rivets etc. It's amazing how much that color hides. In the sun you can get a pretty good look, quite subtle though. The stitching was applied with a toothpick and fast tack white glue. It took awhile


Yes, onboard glow, I'm running a McDaniel's (Sonic Tronic) multi cylinder pulsed setup. I have it setup on my throttle stick.


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RE: WACO YMF - 7/14/2007 10:09 PM   
khodges


 

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ORIGINAL: Hughes500E


Yes, rib stitching, panel lines rivets etc. In the sun you can get a pretty good look, quite subtle though.



Just as it should be (subtle); I'll bet it looks really great in "person". The full scales were the same way, you had to be really close to see the detail, but from ten-twelve feet away you could tell there was something beyond just a smooth cover. You got more patience than I do, to put all that stitching detail on. I'm gonna give it a try on the UPF, though.


Here's what I've done this morning, haven't gotten as far as I wanted. I sat and watched "Dogfights" last night instead of working on the gear. Those Luftwaffe guys had to be crazy, ramming their planes and thinking they could survive.

First pic shows the individual pieces in relationship to how they fit the axle, the bracket for the wheel pant, the gear leg, and the axle nut.
Second pic shows them assembled from the outside; third shows it from the inside; fourth is the pant attached with wheel and tire; note the small reliefs for the wheel pant attachment screws, the screw heads prevent the wheel pant bracket from rotating on the axle stub, even if the axle nut loosens (it shouldn't). Fifth is bottom view.

Note the strut mount on the underside of the leg; the balsa and fiberglass skin will fit around it, "sinking" it a bit, and the skin on the otherside will conceal the nylock nuts. I also made new pant brackets out of 1/16" aluminum stock by tracing the old ones. They were a bit chewed up.

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< Message edited by khodges -- 7/14/2007 10:13 PM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/14/2007 11:12 PM   
skylarkmk1



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Status: offline 		Jay,

The hieght you have for your corrugations is pretty close to scale. I used 3/16" as the full size hieght and came up with .0375 in 1/5th scale, close enough for anyone with out a micrometer. You may be a little wide at the base, but at this scale who is going to know. Attached is a picture of the trailing edge of UBF-2 NC 2091K, most ailerons of the same style, side where interchangable. If you need a larger image, let met know and I can send it via e-mail.

I'll be out there tomorrow and will try to get some actual measurements so we all won't be guessing at the size. The caliperes are in the truck.

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< Message edited by skylarkmk1 -- 7/15/2007 1:21 AM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/14/2007 11:22 PM   
skylarkmk1



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Status: offline 		Hughes,

That color scheme grows on you, doesn't it. The more I look at it, the better I like it. How about a low level, 3/4 view from the front and sides like you are 14" tall doing a walk around. Looking better and better.

< Message edited by skylarkmk1 -- 7/14/2007 11:24 PM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/14/2007 11:55 PM   
khodges


 

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Status: offline 		Hey, John---whatcha been up to? Been out to CCA lately? Have you heard anything new regarding the DH-4, will they take it to OshKosh this year?.. I keep thinking how much fun that was, hate it had to end.

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/15/2007 12:54 AM   
SuperCub Man



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quote:

ORIGINAL: damifino

Supercubman- The finished corrugatons on my 'experiment' are .390" on center, .035" tall and approximately .070" wide at the base. Looking at photos of full size stuff the corrugations are really pretty small. I'm shooting more for the illusion of corrugations at this scale. I'll post a picture of my tooling plate sample soon.


That would be great! Thanks - With three of us starting up on this model in a few weeks, it may well be easier to copy your method than trying to glue 34 X 4 X 3 of these little pieces on with straight and even spacing. I'll look forward to your pix.

I want to add my grats as well to Hughes500E. The first flight is always the best. The excitement for me in this hobby (obsession!) consists of 40% in the building - 40% in the first flight and 20% in the regular every day flying after you've scratched the paint the first time!

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/15/2007 1:25 AM   
skylarkmk1



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Status: offline 		Hi Ken,

Glen, the Chief Mechanic wants to take the DH-4 to OshKosh, but if the EAA won't let him land on the grass, Al says it won't go. There is a grass strip parallel to the hardsurface just like CCA, but the EAA is being stuborn about landing in the grass. We shall see. Had a big "pot luck" gathering at one of the hangers on the 7th, sort of a late airport 4th of July party. You missed some good food, music and conversation. About 4 of the PT-17s and the Buckner Jumgmiester (Radial) did a fly over a few miles away for a fellow pilots wedding and then came to the party. The yellow ATO, NC 663N, in Museum Hanger 1 has been moved over to Terry's hanger for maintenance or maybe the annual, don't know for sure. Will be there tomorrow and see what's going on. Ken K.(L-4B) is going to Ohio to pick up his wheels for the DR-1 this weekend so he won't be there, he wants to get it up on them "bad". He is in the reverse stage of you, has the landing gear struts, axel sub wing and everything else, but no wheels. The frame work is just about ready to cover.

Picture is of the ATO in the Museum hanger, pretty ain't she. (yes it is a Taperwing)

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< Message edited by skylarkmk1 -- 7/15/2007 1:35 AM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/15/2007 1:52 AM   
airplanegeek


 

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Status: offline 		Hughes,

Awesome job - well done. I too am planning on the Saito 170 R3, so any pointers/wisdom would help me. I am sure it sounds really cool! Any chance of a video?

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/15/2007 2:28 AM   
damifino



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Status: offline 		Skylark- I may end up buying a cutter to do the final tooling plate. For this prototype I've simply tilted the head of my mill 45 degrees to cut the grooves. The real corrugations are not 90 degree bends. I'd appreciate some measurements and angles of the full size corrugations before I do the real thing. The first layup I did was 2 layers of brown paper bag and West System epoxy. Next I'm gonna try 1 layer of paper and 1 layer of 1/2 oz. fiberglass. The 2 layers of paper is plenty strong but is brittle. The composite (whatever it ends up being) will be vacuum bagged to the tooling plate and the finished parts should be strong enough to use as the aileron skin itself (no balsa sheet).
If this works out I may offer the aileron skins for those interested.

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/15/2007 2:47 AM   
skylarkmk1



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Status: offline 		Jay,

I'll try to get some shots that are at right angles (and closer) to the trailing edge so the picture can be blown up to make measureing the angles and radius at the base and top of the corrugations easier. With this info you can get the correct cutter gound to make the tooling plate.

I wonder what a layer of carbon fiber laid 45° to the fiberglass would do to stiffen the skin. Just curious thinking at the moment.

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/15/2007 4:24 AM   
damifino



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Status: offline 		The carbon will make it a very strong piece. Stiffness was not lacking in the first try, it is just a little brittle. I'm just thinking about sneeking up on a matrix that is- 1. Cheap 2. Strong enough 3. Light. The brown paper bag rates right up there in the first category! And fiberglass is cheap too. There was/is a homebuilt aircraft whose construction consisted almost entirely of craft paper and epoxy. Sounds good to me because the craft paper absorbs the epoxy nicely and the fiberglass should help cure the brittleness. After all, the aileron skin will not see any bending to the degree that I tested my double layer brown bag part.

< Message edited by damifino -- 7/15/2007 4:34 AM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/15/2007 8:06 AM   
khodges


 

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Status: offline 		How strong do the aileron skins need to be? There is minimal longitudinal bending of the lower surface to match the curve of the wingtip, and the ribs will give all the stiffness necessary front to back. Fiberglass on one side should give all the strength needed, don't you think?

John-- I can't imagine EAA being that thick-headed about using 300 feet of grass, especially in light of the uniqueness of this plane, and the fact that most people alive have never seen one at all, much less a flying example. (Imagine, we're not part of that group !! ) If that thing shows up at Air Venture, it will steal the show.

If Ken has made significant progress on the DR-1, make some pics of it, please.


I've got the basic skins on the gear legs, got to sand them and shape the leading and trailing edges, then fiberglass them.

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/15/2007 8:44 AM   
skylarkmk1



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Status: offline 		Ken H.

Ken K. has all four wings on the rack, all fittings in place, the plywood is off the fuse to do some welding on the underside (he flipped it over to weld the floor mounts, rudder pedal mounts, etc.), Rudder, Elevator and stab are done (hinges and control horns located and welded in place), the ailerons are complete with cable trailing edges and everything else is about ready to cover, just the multitude of nit-noid things that need to be done before covering (fairing in the aileron hinges, running the contol cables and hooking up the interior pulleys, that kind of stuff). It looks just like one of our planes (only bigger) in the same status. Won't be any pictures for a couple of weeks, he's out of town getting the wheels/brakes assemblys from a guy in Ohio.

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/15/2007 3:02 PM   
Michaelj2k



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Status: offline 		Here's one that has been, er, a, "rekitted". It's gonna need a lot more than a welding torch. Item 140137278153

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Waco-YMF-5-Super-Project-Aircraft-Jacobs-Radial-cessna_W0QQitemZ140137278153QQihZ004QQcategoryZ26439QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/15/2007 6:24 PM   
khodges


 

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It's gonna need a lot more than a welding torch.



A little epoxy, couple sticks of balsa.............good as new !! I'd like to know the details of that plane's demise. There's a lot of missing info that would help a potential buyer. The airframe number, for one thing. Hard to speculate, but looked like a major "face plant" given the condition of the prop and the bent pushrod tubes as well as the boxes full of cowl pieces.

Hey, John----there ya go! the guys at CCA can help you get it up and running in a week or two

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/15/2007 10:03 PM   
Didg


 

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Status: offline 		Jay,

My T's have arrived, many thanks.

Didg.

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/15/2007 11:39 PM   
JoeAverage



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stickbuilder

I bought the Pica YMF 3/5 on ebay yesterday. I have offered it to 2 kit cutters to see if they would be interested in reproducing this one. I believe that the Copyright has expired on this kit, and PICA is no longer in business. I need a little help here. all who would be interested in a new kit of this model, please let me know. These are business people, and they will want an idea of the demand for this one prior to making this kind of investment.



Weren't you just threatening some other guy who was talking about making kits, something that no one will ever use those patterns to make one of those planes in any numbers espececially for profit, Cease and Desist orders, Pica had never been bankrupt and all that, and did he have the guts to see it through, "you did have the will and money or whatever" but no one was ever going to go into production, or ever make a profit off it and now your shopping it around trying to assess demand prior to investment?

You now need a little help here to get your own prodution running. Very classy and well thought out. Best of luck to you. If anyone should make any money off it it should be you.





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RE: WACO YMF - 7/15/2007 11:58 PM   
old git


 

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ORIGINAL: Michaelj2k

Here's one that has been, er, a, "rekitted". It's gonna need a lot more than a welding torch. Item 140137278153

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Waco-YMF-5-Super-Project-Aircraft-Jacobs-Radial-cessna_W0QQitemZ140137278153QQihZ004QQcategoryZ26439QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


That's my kind of scale flying, shame really.



WACO Brotherhood No. 14.

old git - - - - - - aka John L.

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/16/2007 12:31 AM   
Live Wire


 

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/16/2007 12:41 AM   
mango12


 

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Status: offline 		I had nothing to do with this, I swear !!!


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RE: WACO YMF - 7/16/2007 12:57 AM   
mobyal


 

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Status: offline 		And your point is?
We've all learned a lot since March of '06 when that post -- #1 in this "thread" -- more like a ball of baling twine -- 16 months and some 3100 posts later....
Just what point are you trying to make, anyway?

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/16/2007 4:05 AM   
nine o nine


 

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Status: offline 		to TRLamb, Hi Terry...Sorry you left WOD due to a bad deal at the hotel I was told. Would have loved to meet and talk to you. I was flying one of the B-17s in the noon show. Mitch (Nine o Nine) WB #100

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/16/2007 5:28 AM   
damifino



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Status: offline 		Joe Average: Looks like you've got your timeline mixed up there cowboy. Your post is the sort we do not wish to have around here. Keep your average thoughts to yourself so this above average thread continues the way the majority likes it. Got it?


< Message edited by damifino -- 7/16/2007 8:14 AM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/16/2007 7:13 AM   
khodges


 

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RE: WACO YMF - 7/16/2007 7:37 AM   
JoeAverage



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hughes500E

I flew my Waco last night

I am thrilled to let you all know I had the best ever maiden flight last night. The sound of the 170 3 cylinder is amazing. I had to dial in 2 clicks of left aileron, and a fair bit of elevator up trim. I am balanced at 5.25 inches from the top wing LE. All up weight with the 3 cylinder, just under 15Lbs. A few times throughout this project I remember saying to myself, "maybe I bit off a bit more than I can chew". My oldest son and I flew in a full scale Waco a number of years ago and ever since that I wanted to build one. For my first scratch/scale build, I am quite proud. Thanks for putting up with me, and thanks for all the help and tips etc. I plan on building another fuselage on floats, so I'll still be popping by and sharing. Long live the brotherhood!

I found this picture saved as day one and I have included a picture of me, yes Bill its me this time!

Thanx guys!

Now I can finish the cockpit, strut mounts, pin striping etc, I'm hooked
7 days to learn how to fly it! BC Scale Masters Qualifier



Amazing model Hughes, if anyone is competeing as you should, you may benefit from this unless you are already aware of it. I copied the following from his site and the info is all his, but I try to abide by it.
Regards, John

Dave Platt states:

The following laws have been compiled from observations made over a lifetime of building competition scale models. It will be noticed that, like "Murphy's Law", while formulated for amusement, they are nevertheless true.

Dave Platt



All of the best information on a subject arrives the day the model is completed, and proves conclusively that what you have done is wrong.

You never finish a scale model. You just stop working on it.

Those subjects requiring the greatest number of working channels have the least room for radio gear.

How right it looks matters more than how right it is.

Competitive scale modeling is about replication, not authentication.

Given a choice, judges will believe wrong information over right.

Live by the principle of scarfology. Things disappear from the marketplace, so scarf them up while the scarfing is good.

Experience has demonstrated that the worst 3-views of any subject are the ones that came form the factory. The best were done by some careful modeler who wanted an accurate model and made his 3-view a labor of love.

Never, ever, use color photos in documentation.

The weak link in the RC Scale reliability chain is still - the engine.

A fair model with a good docs-book will outscore an excellent model with a poor docs-book.

Scale RC is a very relaxing hobby – if you can stand the pace.

Big models fly; small models flit.

First, it’s got to fly.

No amount of flying will improve your static score.

It’s a mistake to take a scale model out to fly while you still like it.

Whenever a manufacturer improves his product, the old one is much better than the new one.




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