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RE: WACO YMF - 8/24/2007 6:36 AM   
aminiet



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Status: offline 		Guys.

If any one is interested, The Latin American aviation society. (www.laahs.com) has a very nice article on Waco warplanes of Latin America, has some side view pictures from the different countries that flew the Waco, and it is in English.
You will have to join, but it is free.

Many thanks to John Howard for the hard work done cataloging the different subjects in this forum, It sure makes things easier to find.

Proctor carries a brass nail with a head dia. of .095" and a shank of .050" approx 1/4" in length.

Angel
B 58

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RE: WACO YMF - 8/24/2007 7:29 AM   
skylarkmk1



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Status: online 		Angel,
Thanks, the index is taking time to do, much longer than expected and is getting longer by the day. The next update will not have page numbers, do to the posts per page number change a couple of months ago. Just take the post number and divide by 20. The result is the page it should be on. If you get a page number such as 145.4, round up to find the post (145.4 becomes 146).

Thanks for the Proctor heads up. .095 is approximately 3/32".

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RE: WACO YMF - 8/24/2007 12:49 PM   
aminiet



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Status: offline 		John.
You are doing a terrific job and credit needs to be given where credit it's due.
I only wish I had this support when I was working on my Jenny.
I forgot to mention that I will try to locate the correct part number for the aluminum rivets, 1/16" shank 1/8" dia. head.
we used to put them on the seat belts to keep the belts from coming out where they are attached at the seat, we give them a different part number at Continental. I believe they are # 1 rivets.

Angel

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RE: WACO YMF - 8/24/2007 5:00 PM   
Stickbuilder



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When you guys start to scale one out, there is no stone left unturned. Me too I've decided to add pinking tape to all the stringers. I'm going to use tissue paper that I cut into strips, and pinked the edges with my new paper trimmer. The scale is about right, and the tissue will not add any appreciable weight. You will need to be closer than 3' to see it, and it will disappear as you move away. This is as it should be. Any scale detail that sticks out at 15' is probably too big, or not applied correctly. I suppose that's the nature of the beast.

Bill, AMA 4720
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RE: WACO YMF - 8/24/2007 5:35 PM   
SuperCub Man



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quote:

ORIGINAL: skylarkmk1

Angel,
Thanks, the index is taking time to do, much longer than expected and is getting longer by the day. The next update will not have page numbers, do to the posts per page number change a couple of months ago. Just take the post number and divide by 20. The result is the page it should be on. If you get a page number such as 145.4, round up to find the post (145.4 becomes 146).

Thanks for the Proctor heads up. .095 is approximately 3/32".

John - Where might one find that index?? Is it posted somewhere?

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RE: WACO YMF - 8/24/2007 7:18 PM   
Stickbuilder



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Has anyone else noticed that our avitars and personal info have disappeared?????

Bill, AMA 4720
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RE: WACO YMF - 8/24/2007 7:20 PM   
Stickbuilder



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My bad...I had inadv ertantly changet mine to simplified flat styoe... Avitar is back.....

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RE: WACO YMF - 8/24/2007 9:54 PM   
SuperCub Man



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quote:

ORIGINAL: khodges

The prop hub looks mighty fine, better than mine by a margin. Did you use #1 or #0 nuts? I may have to redo mine.. The aileron sheeting also looks great. Count the number of times you have to hit the form for each corrugation, times the number of corrugations per aileron side, times the number of ailerons. We'll start calling you S.C. Hammer

I was just going through my needs and making up an order for Micro Fasteners and I ran across the envelope with the nuts I used on the hub and they are #HNSS0256 Stainless Steel Small Pattern Hex. Thought you might be interested since you mentioned it.

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RE: WACO YMF - 8/24/2007 10:04 PM   
skylarkmk1



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Look at the Auxilary site - "House of Moy" http://www.houseofmoy.com/waco/ . The index is at the top of the page (and as noted, is a continual work in progress). You will also find a list of resources, plans, kits and other stuff, copies of the plans in PDF format (a copy place can print them out, but it is cheaper to buy direct from the AMA), parts in jpg and dxf (dxf does not want to open and jpg don't print out at the correct scale) and a copy of the short Pica manual (17 page) revised with input from this thread. The longer manual (45+ pages) is still being worked on.

< Message edited by skylarkmk1 -- 8/24/2007 10:08 PM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 8/24/2007 10:20 PM   
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Since you brought it up, I have these pictures of the rib stitching and tapes from the HARM's Jenny. It has been taken off display to be recovered with just the wings left to do.
P1 - Interior shot of the rib stitching
P2 - Close up of frayed, not "pinked" tapes
P3 - Close up of completed section

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RE: WACO YMF - 8/24/2007 10:33 PM   
SuperCub Man



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Status: offline 		Thanks John. I have already downloaded the plans (that's what the three of us are working from) and the outlines in .jpg. All of our .jpgs turned out quite accurate and very helpful. We also have the manual but I didn't notice the Index and I thank you for that!! My cost to make three sets of plans of three sheets each was about $25.00 total from our local Commercial Digital Printer. Each additional set is cheaper when done at the same time - so we are pleased as punch with the Brotherhood's and your efforts. Thanks all!

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RE: WACO YMF - 8/24/2007 10:51 PM   
Stickbuilder



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I hate to say this, but I think that the formers F-5T and F-6T are mis labeled. Please check the height on the forward top formers prior to installing them. They go from back to front with the taller of them being at the Instrument panel. I found this when building the fuse for the one that I have on the board.

Bill, AMA 4720
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RE: WACO YMF - 8/24/2007 11:24 PM   
WacoJoe


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: skylarkmk1
On the PT-17 (NC 48784) based here, it has the same lock with thumb screw Duetz type fasteners at the lower corners for extra security in flight (p-3)


Yep, every Stearman I've seen has the "briefcase" combination lock and the two Dzus fasteners on the corners of the baggage door. Wacos just have the combo lock without the Dzus fasterners.

Of course there are always a few variations where "field modifications" have substituted something else for the original hardware. The "Navy" Waco that used to be based at Creve Coeur (the Miller family airplane) had what looked like a car door handle on the baggage compartment instead of the combo lock. There are other variations as well. But the original configuration for the UPF-7 is as you see on my airplane, with the combo lock and no other fasteners.

Joe
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RE: WACO YMF - 8/25/2007 4:15 AM   
aminiet



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Status: offline 		John.

I did the stitching on the vert. and hor. stab. and elevator, similar to what you showed in the pictures, but for some reason the tissue I used developed wrinkles.
I decided to leave them alone as I am going for the weathered, aged look of a military airplane.
The part number of the rivets I mentioned earlier is MS20470AD2- in case somebody has access to them.

Angel
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RE: WACO YMF - 8/25/2007 4:59 AM   
Redwulf__34



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Status: offline 		I decided to order the koverall and dope from my local hobby store. I like to give my business to the local guys so I always order or buy from them. I've been waiting now for a week and still no koverall or dope! Guess maybe next time I'll order it myself.

I am going to micro balloon around my control exits tomorrow morning and then just short of a little more sanding I'll be ready to dope and cover. What do you guys use to apply and form the micro balloons? Does it sand so easily that it doesn't need to be formed that perfect when applying it? I'm also guessing 30 minute epoxy should be enough time?

I sure hope I can cover this thing and make it look good! It's been a long long time.

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RE: WACO YMF - 8/25/2007 6:29 AM   
Stickbuilder



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Status: offline 		I think that you can make a spatula from popsicle sticks that should do the job. I don't use micro balloons. I do, however, use lightweight spackle, and it sands extremely well. Epoxy can be sanded, but it is always harder than is the spackle. It is heavier as well, but it's stronger. Everything is a trade-off.

Bill, AMA 4720
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RE: WACO YMF - 8/25/2007 7:20 AM   
khodges


 

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quote:

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I decided to order the koverall and dope from my local hobby store. I like to give my business to the local guys so I always order or buy from them. I've been waiting now for a week and still no koverall or dope! Guess maybe next time I'll order it myself.

I am going to micro balloon around my control exits tomorrow morning and then just short of a little more sanding I'll be ready to dope and cover. What do you guys use to apply and form the micro balloons? Does it sand so easily that it doesn't need to be formed that perfect when applying it? I'm also guessing 30 minute epoxy should be enough time?

I sure hope I can cover this thing and make it look good! It's been a long long time.

If you use epoxy and microballoons, make it a fairly high ratio of balloons to epoxy, like John said, peanut butter consistency. It will set faster than it would without the balloons, so consider 30 minute to be no more than 15 minute. use a tongue depressor or popsicle stick and trowel it into the desired spot and smooth it as best you can with the stick or your finger; don't worry too much about getting a little in the hole for the pushrod, it can be removed later. Once you have it as smooth as possible, take a piece of wax paper and lay it over the epoxy and cover it with an index card, or something flat and stiff that will conform to the curvature of the fuse. Hold it in place until the epoxy sets, then remove it and peel the wax paper off. You might not even have to sand it. Take a sharp blade or dremel tool with a small cutting burr and clean out any epoxy that got into the control rod hole.

You might want to try this on a piece of scrap to play with the technique, but the wax paper will leave a very smooth, almost metal-like, surface. The trick is to have no more epoxy than you need, but no voids, either.

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RE: WACO YMF - 8/25/2007 5:27 PM   
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Status: offline 		Thanks khodges. I never thought about using the wax paper over it. I bet it does make a nice smooth surface. The hobby shop didn't have any micro balloons last night either. I got a little bit impatient this morning so I decided to use my Elmers wood putty. The reason I wanted to use the micro balloons was for a little extra help holding it in. The elmers wood putty is pretty hard and very very easy to sand. I wish I had read your message before I did it.

The Elmers is water based so I filled the surface around it and "wetted" my finger then smoothed and shaped it that way. Sort of like you would with Epoxylite. The Elmers sands so darn easy that and bumps etc are no problem to shape back out with sand paper. I'll post a picture when I'm done. It's probably a little heavier than the Red Devil Spackle or micro balloons but there isn't much on there. I've a feeling I may need a little extra weight in the tail for balance anyway.

I'm going to remember your technique though khodges. I like it. I'd like to see a picture of how you use the index card to wrap it around if you ever think about it.

Sean

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RE: WACO YMF - 8/25/2007 10:27 PM   
mangolo


 

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From: santo domingodn, DOMINICAN REPUBLIC
Status: offline 		A simple way for cutting pinked tape from koverall or polyester dress lining is to put the fabric on a piece of flat and clean piece of glass, dope it and when dry remove and cut with pinking scissors

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RE: WACO YMF - 8/25/2007 10:32 PM   
mangolo


 

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From: santo domingodn, DOMINICAN REPUBLIC
Status: offline 		a simple way for cutting pinked tape from koverall or polyester dress lining is to put the fabric on a piece of flat and clean glass,dope it and when dry remove and cut with pinking scissor


WALDO

WACO BROTHERHOOD #22

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RE: WACO YMF - 8/26/2007 4:27 AM   
SuperCub Man



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Super Cub Man,

I hate to say this, but I think that the formers F-5T and F-6T are mis labeled. Please check the height on the forward top formers prior to installing them. They go from back to front with the taller of them being at the Instrument panel. I found this when building the fuse for the one that I have on the board.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

I measured them and they seem to be OK with the F-6T being just a smidgen (tech talk!) taller. But I will check alignment closely on installation.
Refering back to the aluminum corrugated ailerons, should the top of the corrugation be flush with the wing trailing edge or should the valley. I'm considering covering the ailerons with 1/16 sheet as an surface to adhere to and using a new 3M Super contact cement for the glue. It was mentioned to me by Jerry Nelson when I was ordering the hinges for the compartments on the fuse. He says it's available at Home Depot and that the local airline maintenance crews in Texas use it regularly for applicable repairs!! The thickness of the aileron formers will have to be resized to attain the correct thickness at the aileron leading edge.
Thanks

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RE: WACO YMF - 8/26/2007 5:39 AM   
skylarkmk1



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The trailing edges of the skins on the full scale are actually 3 layers, top skin, joiner, bottom skin (p1). Top view at tip (p2), top view at root (p3). End view at root (p4). Any questions or another view, just ask.

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< Message edited by skylarkmk1 -- 8/26/2007 7:32 AM >

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RE: WACO YMF - 8/26/2007 5:44 AM   
aminiet



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I would love to know who works for "the local airline" in Texas that told you to use 3m super contact cement from home depot , Since I am MX Qc for one of the 3 airlines based in Texas. I hope it's not for the same airline I work for.
You may want to pm me.

Angel
WACO BROTHERHOOD 58

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RE: WACO YMF - 8/26/2007 6:23 PM   
Stickbuilder



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Status: offline 		Guys, sorry to have been absent yesterday (and for the last few evenings). The new puter has some issues. The new system is superfast, but the hard drive crashed on the evening of the first day of in service. The puter company replaced the hard drive under warranty (you'd hope so) and they had to retrieve all the programs from their server (including pics from Baby Daughter's wedding), so I didn't get it back until Friday PM. Saturday morning, the ISP went down, so here it is Sunday morning, and everything seems to be on go.

I spent last evening completing the narrowing of the wheel pants from Fiberglass Specialists, and they are going to be great. I did have to use some yellow putty to fill the pin holes. The normal voids in the material that you get from this company were eliminated by removing the factory seam which happened during the narrowing process. The shape is much closer to scale (theirs is very pudgy) and the space around the tires is much closer now (before there was at least 1/4" space on each side of the tire). I'll get them in primer today, and finish sanding them. I think that I will finish paint them to set the colors for the plane, and make the decision for the trim design. I'm trying to decide whether to go with a light cream for the base color, or to go with bright white. Any ideas or reccomendations from you guys on this? The trim color is still up in the air, but I'm leaning toward a dark Navy, or a medium green. I would have used red, but khodges already has done this one. The access panels for the aft fuse bottom worked out really well, and I now have access to the variable incidence tail mechanics, as well as for the scale tailwheel gear. It's slow, but it's coming together.

Bill, AMA 4720
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RE: WACO YMF - 8/26/2007 6:44 PM   
khodges


 

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quote:

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I'm trying to decide whether to go with a light cream for the base color, or to go with bright white. Any ideas or reccomendations from you guys on this? The trim color is still up in the air, but I'm leaning toward a dark Navy, or a medium green. I would have used red, but khodges already has done this one. The access panels for the aft fuse bottom worked out really well, and I now have access to the variable incidence tail mechanics, as well as for the scale tailwheel gear. It's slow, but it's coming together.



Bill, I used the cream color primarily because it would hide everyday grime better than white, but it really gives a great contrast to the darker trim. I don't know how well the specific shade I used (Krylon 'Buttercream') would match to a dark blue, but I think a Navy blue with a light contrast color would be awesome. Something in a very pale blue and dark blue I think would look good, maybe with a thin gold pinstripe on the borders. The original Waco I used for my scheme I found out was blue and white, with the gold pinstripe between them. As far as green goes, the UBA that John and I saw at CCA was gorgeous. It was a dark green fuse with a medium green panel down the middle a medium green rudder with scalloped edge, and silver wings. The ring cowl was chrome, but I think would look good in the same colors as the fuse.

There was also a green/cream UPF-7 that looked great. Pics of both:


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